Evora 400 or an Earlier version?

Evora 400 or an Earlier version?

Author
Discussion

WakeFlakes

Original Poster:

104 posts

66 months

Saturday 24th October 2020
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Hi guys,

I have made a couple of threads now across PH looking at and test driven different cars (Alpine, Porsche 981 GTS & 991 911, Supra GR) now I am here! (I hope you don’t mind!)

I have around £50k for a sports car that can cope with daily driver duties and longer journeys whilst also not losing a fkton in depreciation over the next 2/3 years. I test drove a 400 today and honestly it was fantastic. However my biggest concern is depreciation, from the bit of research I have done it appears that the Evora S has pretty much plateaued now. Which means a late S is about £10-15k cheaper than a 400.

I guess my questions are:

1) Is it worth the extra for a 400? (I like the facelift, and the updated interior, the extra performance is nice as well)

2) How much more do you think the 400 has to depreciate before it will settle?

I know it’s impossible to Give a definitive answer, I just wanted to canvass opinions. This would be my first Lotus as well.

SFTWend

817 posts

74 months

Sunday 25th October 2020
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I'm in a similar position. Actually pulled out of the purchase of an S in March due to entering lockdown and have since mentally upped my budget for a 400/410 or something else.

Owners of an Evora love them and to my mind they offer the "specialness" of a weekend toy but still practical to use for anything all year round. However they remain strangely under the radar of the buying masses and little traffic is seen in this section of PH compared to most other makes/models. I think residuals have been quite good because of low volume production although they appear to take a while to sell.

I don't think the S has anywhere near bottomed out and main dealers are struggling to shift low mileage 400's at c.£50k. I bid on the Hofmanns car I mentioned in another thread, which gave an indication of where these cars might be heading.

I think an Evora is a great choice to keep as a long term proposition and cherish. If residuals are a key factor then I suggest the perceived quality of something like a Porsche GT4 is likely to hold its value better over a 12/24 month term.

WakeFlakes

Original Poster:

104 posts

66 months

Sunday 25th October 2020
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Yeah I know what you mean on the Porsche, the 911 and Cayman GTS that I looked at and drove were both very good cars but they didn’t feel special (to me at least). A GT4 is a little out of my price range at the moment.

The Alpine I looked at was fantastic and really loved it, but they are a bit too new to get a feeling on their depreciation. Which is what lead me to the Evora.

I’m not necessarily opposed to keeping it longer term but I already have 2 cars in the garage that I don’t want to let go of just yet!

AlistairF

49 posts

155 months

Sunday 25th October 2020
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As the owner of a MY11 S I have looked at the 400 and later versions and I simply can't justify the difference. In many respects I think the S is a perfect Sports GT for the UK. Fairly quick, comfortable, reliable and distinctive. I have had Elises and then a mint Cayman S but wanted something a bit edgier than the Cayman and I think the Evora S is perfect.

Sure the MY12 build quality is better but upgrade the earlier car with MY12 gear cables and the third cat bypass it goes a long way to bridging the gap. When trying the 400 it sounded a bit better but not noticeably faster and the later versions were certainly stiffer and a bit less compliant on the UK roads. But the biggest issue I found were the 400's Sparco seats in which are not low enough and higher than the Recaros in my S which I would prefer 20mm lower too.

So rather than a 4xx I am considering a Komotec upgrade for a bit more torque and when the original battery eventually dies (9 years old!) a lithium replacement to save 15-20kg . I am not sure about replacing the silencer as I am after a good sound rather than just loud. That said these are well insulated cars so its a I am planning to reduce the sound insulation a bit: mine is a 2+0 and the rear bulkhead carpet and insulation is over 30mm thick! I did take it out to see what it was like and I must say it was a nice balance of sound.

So, my point is that with a well looked after S you and tweak it sensibly and have a wonderful car with less outlay.

Cheers
Alistair





CTE

1,488 posts

239 months

Sunday 25th October 2020
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If we knew what was going to happen with appreciation/depreciation we`d all be millionaires! The Evora is a very low volume car which helps when compared to higher volume 911`s etc, but as has been said they`re off the radar for most so the demand it low. However the depreciation to date has been very slow but for my two penneth I think there is going to be a sharp fall in car values in the next 6-12 months due to the economic fall out from the current state of affairs, which will affect all cars except for exceptional vehicles, and I would not class Cayman GT4`s in that category...we`ve seen it before in the late 90`s...the only contradictory influence at present is the too low interest rates which is definitely having a positive influence i.e. the money is doing nothing in a bank or low risk savings account so why not at least enjoy it with a nice car?? So we go round in circles.

Lucky old me I`ve has an S, SR IPS, a 400 and now a GT410. The S was brilliant but whilst reliable some of the interior build quality was patchy and the gearchange was rubbish...but i`d imagine many cars have had those issues sorted. The SR had all the issues sorted and the best seats... I wanted to upgrade to a 400 because I preferred the styling and the improved interior, although with hindsight I`m not sure it was an improvement at all. It looked more modern. It also had a charge cooler so made constant power not that I ever noticed the power tailing off without the cooler...
The GT410...well it`s a chunk more money and as a new car does not really stack up at nearly £100k (even though it is absolutely f**king brilliant) so I bought mine second hand...after a chunk of initial depreciation. It is in every way (almost) a much better car, even though the improvements on the face of it are small. Being the sport variant the suspension is stiffer so it is debateable if the earlier cars are the better overall road compromise, but this has now been answered by the non sport variant (I personally prefer the much sharper dynamics of the Sport variant)...the Sparco seats which look like the 400`s are brilliant too (made by Sparco as opposed to Chinese copies!!?).

If it were my money with your budget I`d go for an SR and go for the first stage Komotec upgrade and maybe take out the 3rd cat. It`ll give it a bit more pep and improve the efficiency for not a huge outlay.

All brilliant cars and a great joy to see on the very rare occasion...

SFTWend

817 posts

74 months

Sunday 25th October 2020
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CTE said:
I wanted to upgrade to a 400 because I preferred the styling and the improved interior, although with hindsight I`m not sure it was an improvement at all. It looked more modern. It also had a charge cooler so made constant power not that I ever noticed the power tailing off without the cooler...
The GT410...well it`s a chunk more money and as a new car does not really stack up at nearly £100k (even though it is absolutely f**king brilliant) so I bought mine second hand...after a chunk of initial depreciation. It is in every way (almost) a much better car, even though the improvements on the face of it are small. Being the sport variant the suspension is stiffer so it is debateable if the earlier cars are the better overall road compromise, but this has now been answered by the non sport variant (I personally prefer the much sharper dynamics of the Sport variant)...the Sparco seats which look like the 400`s are brilliant too (made by Sparco as opposed to Chinese copies!!?).
Very informative comments from someone who has owned them all. For me, part of the appeal of an Evora over say an Exige is that it can do GT as well as pure sports car and the +2 should enable me to take my wife and 6 year old out at the same time.

Are you saying the GT410 is more marked improvement over the 400 than the 400 was over the S?

Thanks.

CABC

5,528 posts

100 months

Sunday 25th October 2020
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you need to drive both, they are different.
The S1 is more laid back, comfortable GT car. The SR is much sort after and later models pretty well resolved too. Not surprisingly some say early 400s suffered more issues. 400 has some depreciation to go. it's also more sporty, the GT410 definitely feeling more Elise-like (Cup tyres make it noisier too). Looks and seats divide opinion.
i reckon you might choose a late S1 with you head, only you know what your heart would say.

blueg33

35,574 posts

223 months

Monday 26th October 2020
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The 400 is notably less comfortable than the earlier cars. The Recaro seats are fantastic and I miss those now I have sold my car.

I also think that the 400 interior feels lower quality than the earlier cars, eg less leather, cheaper switch gear, but possibly better screwed together.

The main niggles are felt by all cars: headlamp lacquer, a pillar trims, noisy manual drive train.

I have just sold my SR and decided not to go for another Evora, but I was looking at the 400 and 410, they just didn't light my fire enough. Sweet spot for me would be a 410 sport with IPS and recaro seats. That would be an excellent daily.

Because i couldnt get what I wanted I scratched a different itch - I now have a 20 year old Ferrari which is as quick as a 400 (maybe quicker from 50 mph upwards) but financially is a scarier proposition. - The Evora is pretty cheap to run. Even if you have to do a clutch, overall I found servicing at Lotus Silverstone good value, no more than any normal car apart from niggle fixing

WakeFlakes

Original Poster:

104 posts

66 months

Monday 26th October 2020
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blueg33 said:
The 400 is notably less comfortable than the earlier cars. The Recaro seats are fantastic and I miss those now I have sold my car.

I also think that the 400 interior feels lower quality than the earlier cars, eg less leather, cheaper switch gear, but possibly better screwed together.

The main niggles are felt by all cars: headlamp lacquer, a pillar trims, noisy manual drive train.

I have just sold my SR and decided not to go for another Evora, but I was looking at the 400 and 410, they just didn't light my fire enough. Sweet spot for me would be a 410 sport with IPS and recaro seats. That would be an excellent daily.

Because i couldnt get what I wanted I scratched a different itch - I now have a 20 year old Ferrari which is as quick as a 400 (maybe quicker from 50 mph upwards) but financially is a scarier proposition. - The Evora is pretty cheap to run. Even if you have to do a clutch, overall I found servicing at Lotus Silverstone good value, no more than any normal car apart from niggle fixing
When I sat in the 400 I thought the interior felt very well put together. But that’s perhaps because the only other lotus I had sat in is my brothers 111R. I had the same problem when looking at the 997.2 and the 991.1 911s, I liked the interior of the 991 so much more. It’s the same with the S and the 400. I haven’t driven an S yet but will have to try and find one.


It’s interesting you say about the Ferrari as I was looking at more classic cars, but I wanted something a little bit more modern for a change as this would be the first car I have owned that was built post 2000! I hope you have a trouble free ownership!

blueg33

35,574 posts

223 months

Monday 26th October 2020
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WakeFlakes said:
blueg33 said:
The 400 is notably less comfortable than the earlier cars. The Recaro seats are fantastic and I miss those now I have sold my car.

I also think that the 400 interior feels lower quality than the earlier cars, eg less leather, cheaper switch gear, but possibly better screwed together.

The main niggles are felt by all cars: headlamp lacquer, a pillar trims, noisy manual drive train.

I have just sold my SR and decided not to go for another Evora, but I was looking at the 400 and 410, they just didn't light my fire enough. Sweet spot for me would be a 410 sport with IPS and recaro seats. That would be an excellent daily.

Because i couldnt get what I wanted I scratched a different itch - I now have a 20 year old Ferrari which is as quick as a 400 (maybe quicker from 50 mph upwards) but financially is a scarier proposition. - The Evora is pretty cheap to run. Even if you have to do a clutch, overall I found servicing at Lotus Silverstone good value, no more than any normal car apart from niggle fixing
When I sat in the 400 I thought the interior felt very well put together. But that’s perhaps because the only other lotus I had sat in is my brothers 111R. I had the same problem when looking at the 997.2 and the 991.1 911s, I liked the interior of the 991 so much more. It’s the same with the S and the 400. I haven’t driven an S yet but will have to try and find one.


It’s interesting you say about the Ferrari as I was looking at more classic cars, but I wanted something a little bit more modern for a change as this would be the first car I have owned that was built post 2000! I hope you have a trouble free ownership!
The 400 is well put together, just less premium.

My Ferrari is just post 2000!

I loved both my Evora's, they are exceptionally good. The n/a is the handling and balance sweetspot IMO

Pics because I can







gareth h

3,503 posts

229 months

Monday 26th October 2020
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I’ve had a few Loti, and in my opinion the newer the car the better the build quality, My advice would be to go for the latest car you can afford, the 410 is the pick of the bunch at sensible money.

WakeFlakes

Original Poster:

104 posts

66 months

Monday 26th October 2020
quotequote all
gareth h said:
I’ve had a few Loti, and in my opinion the newer the car the better the build quality, My advice would be to go for the latest car you can afford, the 410 is the pick of the bunch at sensible money.
There’s a 410 at B&C but I think I remember reading somewhere that the 2016 410s were press cars?

gm77

98 posts

119 months

Monday 26th October 2020
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I had to make this choice a few years back and went with a new 400 instead of one of the last S SR. There are a couple of other differences people haven’t noted so thought I’d add in case of interest.

The 400 has easier access than the old S. The sills are narrower which may not sound like much but it means you don’t have as much of a problem getting in and out of the car in a car park as the doors don’t need to open as much.

Out of the box the 400 is a better car for any track time. My wife very kindly paid for me to do a track day in an S SR with a current GT4 racer driver as the instructor. The S SR was great on track but too softly sprung and rolled quite badly. Very shortly after I had the 400 on circuit and it was a very different affair. I let my friend drive my 400 on the same track day and shortly after he sold his S3 Exige and bought a 400. I don’t think he would have done so if I had an S. The S is deforest better at soaking up bumps on the road though.

For anyone looking to use the back seats, the 400 bench is wider (enough for two car seats relatively easily) than the S. The 400 also has room under the driver and passenger seats for feet. The S doesn’t so it means unless those seats are as far forward as possible it’s very uncomfortable for rear passengers.

Finally, and admittedly personal choice, but I think the 400 sounds a lot better. Everyone who hears it can’t believe it’s standard. I have heard pretty much all combinations of S cars with all manner of after market options and for me they don’t quite make it. A mate of mine has as R8 V10 plus - we both reckon the 400 sounds better.

WakeFlakes

Original Poster:

104 posts

66 months

Tuesday 27th October 2020
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Thanks for the advice guys. I think I will go for a 400. Now it’s just trying to find one.

Theres this one

https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/10123244?c...

But I’m unsure if it being a demo (for the first 800 miles) is an issue? Probably not.


And this one

https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/9791748?cI...

Although that one hasn’t been MoT’d since October 2019.

Is there a Lotus dealer that is highly recommended? I’ve heard good things about Bell & Colvill as well as Silverstone.

blueg33

35,574 posts

223 months

Tuesday 27th October 2020
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WakeFlakes said:
Thanks for the advice guys. I think I will go for a 400. Now it’s just trying to find one.

Theres this one

https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/10123244?c...

But I’m unsure if it being a demo (for the first 800 miles) is an issue? Probably not.


And this one

https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/9791748?cI...

Although that one hasn’t been MoT’d since October 2019.

Is there a Lotus dealer that is highly recommended? I’ve heard good things about Bell & Colvill as well as Silverstone.
I found Silverstone to be excellent. The whole team is very good, Matt as the boss is really helpful (allow some time as chats can be quite long), Aimee in sales could sell ice to eskimos so be careful smile, and Ben on service reception is also really good.

In my 30 plus years of car ownership, they are probably the best dealer I have ever used.

Personally, I am not a fan of the Evora in signature silver or black - for me the blues, green and oranges work well. I nearly bough Silverstones green 410 sport but we were about £1000 apart, my Ferrari was almost £8k less (which I am sure I will sepnd on maintenance in the next couple of years)


Edited by blueg33 on Tuesday 27th October 09:15

CTE

1,488 posts

239 months

Tuesday 27th October 2020
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For me yes the current 410 is a marked improvement over a 400 even though they are very similar. Whilst there were a lot of detail changes between the S to SR you are not aware of many of them. The car just felt better screwed together with some nicer seats (although both are great) with less tyre wear!
The current 410 goes like stink, sounds absolutely fantastic when in sport (for me all other variants could have been a bit more cocal in the cabin when on it), the gearchange is nice and slick and there are absolutely no squeaks or rattles. The stiffer springs and dampers give almost Exige like agility but in a very useable GT like package...so for me at last the Evora feels like it is complete although I would shorten the gear ratios given it can crack 80 in second gear!!!

I’ve owned a 12c for 5 years and in that time driven a 458, Aventador, 430, 348, 911 GTS, Catman GTS, and whilst some of these cars had some elements that were better (more power or even better sounding for instance) I can honestly say that any Evora stands it’s ground (and easily betters all bar the 12c for steering feel and handling/ride comfort) in such company especially when you compare actual purchase costs. The 410 Sport doesn’t have the big power grunt of full on supercars but it can carry its speed through bends like little else...but obviously not on public roads. And if anything that leads to a criticism of many modern performance cars, they’re just too fast for the road but at least like any Lotus they are always fun at any speed because they’re so well balanced and connected.




WakeFlakes

Original Poster:

104 posts

66 months

Tuesday 27th October 2020
quotequote all
blueg33 said:
I found Silverstone to be excellent. The whole team is very good, Matt as the boss is really helpful (allow some time as chats can be quite long), Aimee in sales could sell ice to eskimos so be careful smile, and Ben on service reception is also really good.

In my 30 plus years of car ownership, they are probably the best dealer I have ever used.

Personally, I am not a fan of the Evora in signature silver or black - for me the blues, green and oranges work well. I nearly bough Silverstones green 410 sport but we were about £1000 apart, my Ferrari was almost £8k less (which I am sure I will sepnd on maintenance in the next couple of years)


Edited by blueg33 on Tuesday 27th October 09:15
Yeah I’m not too sold on the colours either. But my intention is to get the car wrapped anyway, so exterior colour isn’t hugely important.

Silverstone is my nearest dealer so will give them a call!

Edited by WakeFlakes on Tuesday 27th October 10:11

gareth h

3,503 posts

229 months

Tuesday 27th October 2020
quotequote all
blueg33 said:
I found Silverstone to be excellent. The whole team is very good, Matt as the boss is really helpful (allow some time as chats can be quite long), Aimee in sales could sell ice to eskimos so be careful smile, and Ben on service reception is also really good.

In my 30 plus years of car ownership, they are probably the best dealer I have ever used.

Personally, I am not a fan of the Evora in signature silver or black - for me the blues, green and oranges work well. I nearly bough Silverstones green 410 sport but we were about £1000 apart, my Ferrari was almost £8k less (which I am sure I will sepnd on maintenance in the next couple of years)


Edited by blueg33 on Tuesday 27th October 09:15
Yep, I agree with all that.

SFTWend

817 posts

74 months

Wednesday 28th October 2020
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Difficult to resist at Evora after CTE's summary.

I keep finding myself drawn to this highly spec'd one. The dealer was taking a bit of a gamble specifying their demo in spearmint, but I prefer a bold colour to black, grey or white. I guess the colour has limited appeal so would have to be a long term keeper.

https://www.oakmeremotorgroup.co.uk/used/cars/lotu...

Boylston

144 posts

190 months

Wednesday 28th October 2020
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I had this debate with myself at the start of this year.

Ultimately came to the conclusion (for me) that best to go for an early 'S' OR an early 400. Not a late 'S'. The benefits of the 400 are many over 'S' that for me was worth the £10k to £15k difference over a late 'S'.

I'm a VERY happy new owner of a 400. Totally loving it.

Simon