Discussion
twinturban said:
GT430 might cost more upfront but good chance it would cost less to own over time. Great way to swerve big Emira depreciation and have a much more focused drivers car. That said GT410 is a good halfway house and I can’t see them losing much from where they are now. Better drivers car than the Emira imo which is mainly bought for its looks. If Lotus ever get round to making a faster and lighter Emira but it will be north of £100k and make the early Emiras and later Evoras look even better value.
Evora 400 owners will tell you it’s 95% of a Sport 410/GT410 Sport. 410 owners will tell you it’s 95% of a GT430. I don’t agree at all. Evora 400 is great value but the Sport 410 was a big improvement as a drivers road and track car. Added lightness was the Lotus way back then and the Sport 410 remains a great example and perhaps better understood and appreciated by an Exige owner than a previous Evora owner. You feel the benefits constantly and at all speeds. Weight distribution and c of g are also improved. For me the original Sport 410 is the stand out Evora for value, still under the radar and undervalued I guess those that wanted something racier tend to go for the Exige so it gets really overlooked. That’s what I’d be go for for around £50k personally. But they are super rare, beggars can’t be choosers! GT410 is more polished and a bit more refined. Unlike early Sport 410 can be found with higher mounted more conventional Sparco seats but it if you’ve had an Exige you fit the carbon race seats so I would stick with those if you can improves driving position and big weight saving, lower c of g, more support and room for helmet. GT430 is another level and goes beyond being a special Evora to being one of the greatest Lotus cars ever. Exige 430 is wilder, angrier and more exciting but GT430 is a more sophisticated showcase for Lotus suspension and aero expertise.
Fantastic response, thank you, this is exactly the kind of thing that helps, 100% feel like your views mirror mine and that your feedback is really relevant.Evora 400 owners will tell you it’s 95% of a Sport 410/GT410 Sport. 410 owners will tell you it’s 95% of a GT430. I don’t agree at all. Evora 400 is great value but the Sport 410 was a big improvement as a drivers road and track car. Added lightness was the Lotus way back then and the Sport 410 remains a great example and perhaps better understood and appreciated by an Exige owner than a previous Evora owner. You feel the benefits constantly and at all speeds. Weight distribution and c of g are also improved. For me the original Sport 410 is the stand out Evora for value, still under the radar and undervalued I guess those that wanted something racier tend to go for the Exige so it gets really overlooked. That’s what I’d be go for for around £50k personally. But they are super rare, beggars can’t be choosers! GT410 is more polished and a bit more refined. Unlike early Sport 410 can be found with higher mounted more conventional Sparco seats but it if you’ve had an Exige you fit the carbon race seats so I would stick with those if you can improves driving position and big weight saving, lower c of g, more support and room for helmet. GT430 is another level and goes beyond being a special Evora to being one of the greatest Lotus cars ever. Exige 430 is wilder, angrier and more exciting but GT430 is a more sophisticated showcase for Lotus suspension and aero expertise.
BertBert said:
I did my Emira test driving whilst being an Evora 410 sport owner. I thought the Emira would be a dull drive in comparison, but it was completely the opposite. I actually found it as engaging a drive as the Evora. I am a big fan of buckets and wasn't a big fan of the Emira seats. So I reckon that the Emira with the Tilletts that are fittable would be mega. Only downside is the Tilletts are quite pricey and would take away some practicality from the Emira.
Mind you if I went down that route, I'd only put a Tillett in the driver's side, not for the pax.
Ok, thanks for the feedback, I currently drive and EV day to day, it's quickish but dull, part of that is the gears but the other part is the lack of noise and drama, that's what I was worried more about with the Emira that it was more sensible and that it would not feel lively enough or be loud enough, all the videos I see of the Evora 410 and one I followed impress on the sound, with the Emira it seems to more focus in on the looks and the better build quality, I still want to put my foot down and hear the engine / exhaust, with the Evora people say it's one of the best sounds out there, I like the idea of that, while I am sure the Emira is not really quiet I worry it won't meet my expectations, I guess this is where I need to go in one and decide.Mind you if I went down that route, I'd only put a Tillett in the driver's side, not for the pax.
Those expecting the Emira to drive better than an Evora tend to come away disappointed, those who love the styling first and foremost don’t seem bothered about the lower 6800rpm redline, extra weight or quieter exhaust. But you don’t see many people claiming the Emira is any better to drive and Lotus’ ambition for the car was only to appeal to more people, be easier to live with and to sell at a lower price (which didn’t last long) advances in performance or driving dynamics were not expressed as goals at any stage. Some have traded in Evora 410s for an Emira and claimed the Emira is ‘better in every way’ I have no idea why I think it’s mostly just new car rapture. I also enjoyed driving the Emira more than I thought I would, power:weight drops from over 300 to 270bhp per ton but it was still plenty fast and responsive in reality. For the same money I would personally go for an Evora 410. For the price of a new Emira I would go for an Evora GT430 without hesitation. It helps that I really like the Evora’s styling especially in GT410/430 form, so I’m not under the Emira’s spell in quite the same way as most others seem to be.
simsith said:
Thanks Lee, that would be great, I live near Stratford upon Avon, by Caffeine and Machine, the Hill, where about s are you, the 410 Sport the one I particularly like.
Unfortunately or fortunately I live up in Cumbria so quite a way from each other however if you get up here sometime kettle will be on.BertBert said:
I did my Emira test driving whilst being an Evora 410 sport owner. I thought the Emira would be a dull drive in comparison, but it was completely the opposite. I actually found it as engaging a drive as the Evora. I am a big fan of buckets and wasn't a big fan of the Emira seats. So I reckon that the Emira with the Tilletts that are fittable would be mega. Only downside is the Tilletts are quite pricey and would take away some practicality from the Emira.
Mind you if I went down that route, I'd only put a Tillett in the driver's side, not for the pax.
I'm completely with BertBert here (I was going to type something similar). Mine is Tour suspended, maybe you could try a Sport set-up.Mind you if I went down that route, I'd only put a Tillett in the driver's side, not for the pax.
Check whether the Emira interior and driver interface suit you more than the Evora.
Steve will do the Tillets to match the interior
Following with interest.
My reading suggests the 410 was the last pure Lotus. The Emira designed to appeal to a wider audience.
I think I'd like to look at, and sit in, an Emira, but drive the 410 Evora.
What's clear is that Emira depreciation hasn't pushed down Evora prices. I'm sure Emira values will settle soon but the Evora might be the smarter buy as well as the Lotus enthusiasts choice.
My reading suggests the 410 was the last pure Lotus. The Emira designed to appeal to a wider audience.
I think I'd like to look at, and sit in, an Emira, but drive the 410 Evora.
What's clear is that Emira depreciation hasn't pushed down Evora prices. I'm sure Emira values will settle soon but the Evora might be the smarter buy as well as the Lotus enthusiasts choice.
Also following as I have a similar dilemma, Thinking I will swap my Evora S SR for an Evora GT410 Sport or maybe Emira this year. Like the rareness of the Evora and do occasionally use the back seats if we go out as a family. Mine is a weekend toy so the rawness of the Evora GT410 Sport appeals although I’ve not driven either.
Emira does look good though, but I still think the Evora in a good colour looks fantastic. Always amazed at the number of swivelled heads and thumbs up my S1 gets.
Emira does look good though, but I still think the Evora in a good colour looks fantastic. Always amazed at the number of swivelled heads and thumbs up my S1 gets.
I’ve not driven an Evora but I have driven the Exige 410, Emira (both on track) and Cayman GT4 (owned and used on track and road).
I know you’re not asking about the Exige but as a starting point as you own one, I thought that it was amazing. Started looking to buy one in 2020/21 but there was a small pool and none that met my spec choices and prices seemed to be on the up prices wise during the COVID price frenzy.
When the Emira was announced I decided to hold off and see what it was like before committing - tempted by something that would hopefully offer a similar lotus driving experience but with a bit more practicality and creature comforts. I spent a day up at Hethel and drove 5 or 6 of them and came away really disappointed. The finish wasn’t great, I wasn’t a huge fan of the colours (DV was too dark and the tan leather far too orange) but more importantly the driving package just didn’t feel special at all. Engine didn’t feel special and the gearboxes just felt crap - maybe linkages needed adjusted but one car was jumping out of gear with various people (so not just me) and it was very notchy in a bad way. Brakes were ok but pedal feel varied significantly between cars and it just felt over servoid.
I had a deposit down and also went to test drive one at the dealers to see it on the road. The demonstrator car was rattling away and was the final nail in the coffin.
I had also considered a Porsche and 10 mins in a gt4 was enough to make my mind up. I really don’t think that you can compare the two if I’m honest.
I know you’re not asking about the Exige but as a starting point as you own one, I thought that it was amazing. Started looking to buy one in 2020/21 but there was a small pool and none that met my spec choices and prices seemed to be on the up prices wise during the COVID price frenzy.
When the Emira was announced I decided to hold off and see what it was like before committing - tempted by something that would hopefully offer a similar lotus driving experience but with a bit more practicality and creature comforts. I spent a day up at Hethel and drove 5 or 6 of them and came away really disappointed. The finish wasn’t great, I wasn’t a huge fan of the colours (DV was too dark and the tan leather far too orange) but more importantly the driving package just didn’t feel special at all. Engine didn’t feel special and the gearboxes just felt crap - maybe linkages needed adjusted but one car was jumping out of gear with various people (so not just me) and it was very notchy in a bad way. Brakes were ok but pedal feel varied significantly between cars and it just felt over servoid.
I had a deposit down and also went to test drive one at the dealers to see it on the road. The demonstrator car was rattling away and was the final nail in the coffin.
I had also considered a Porsche and 10 mins in a gt4 was enough to make my mind up. I really don’t think that you can compare the two if I’m honest.
Might be worth throwing a Noble in the mix to try based on your criteria?
There’s a lovely red 19,000 mile 3R just come up on our FB pages at very decent money.
I nearly swapped mine for a GT410 Sport last year from Hilton and Moss, lovely thing and more practical but even that didn’t have the drama or anywhere near the pace of my M400.
There’s a lovely red 19,000 mile 3R just come up on our FB pages at very decent money.
I nearly swapped mine for a GT410 Sport last year from Hilton and Moss, lovely thing and more practical but even that didn’t have the drama or anywhere near the pace of my M400.
Redline88 said:
I’ve not driven an Evora but I have driven the Exige 410, Emira (both on track) and Cayman GT4 (owned and used on track and road).
I know you’re not asking about the Exige but as a starting point as you own one, I thought that it was amazing. Started looking to buy one in 2020/21 but there was a small pool and none that met my spec choices and prices seemed to be on the up prices wise during the COVID price frenzy.
When the Emira was announced I decided to hold off and see what it was like before committing - tempted by something that would hopefully offer a similar lotus driving experience but with a bit more practicality and creature comforts. I spent a day up at Hethel and drove 5 or 6 of them and came away really disappointed. The finish wasn’t great, I wasn’t a huge fan of the colours (DV was too dark and the tan leather far too orange) but more importantly the driving package just didn’t feel special at all. Engine didn’t feel special and the gearboxes just felt crap - maybe linkages needed adjusted but one car was jumping out of gear with various people (so not just me) and it was very notchy in a bad way. Brakes were ok but pedal feel varied significantly between cars and it just felt over servoid.
I had a deposit down and also went to test drive one at the dealers to see it on the road. The demonstrator car was rattling away and was the final nail in the coffin.
I had also considered a Porsche and 10 mins in a gt4 was enough to make my mind up. I really don’t think that you can compare the two if I’m honest.
Thank you, the Emirates is purely on the looks, I think its more therefore for the drive and sound. What was it about the GT4 that really grabbed you in the 10 minutes? Was it a 718?I know you’re not asking about the Exige but as a starting point as you own one, I thought that it was amazing. Started looking to buy one in 2020/21 but there was a small pool and none that met my spec choices and prices seemed to be on the up prices wise during the COVID price frenzy.
When the Emira was announced I decided to hold off and see what it was like before committing - tempted by something that would hopefully offer a similar lotus driving experience but with a bit more practicality and creature comforts. I spent a day up at Hethel and drove 5 or 6 of them and came away really disappointed. The finish wasn’t great, I wasn’t a huge fan of the colours (DV was too dark and the tan leather far too orange) but more importantly the driving package just didn’t feel special at all. Engine didn’t feel special and the gearboxes just felt crap - maybe linkages needed adjusted but one car was jumping out of gear with various people (so not just me) and it was very notchy in a bad way. Brakes were ok but pedal feel varied significantly between cars and it just felt over servoid.
I had a deposit down and also went to test drive one at the dealers to see it on the road. The demonstrator car was rattling away and was the final nail in the coffin.
I had also considered a Porsche and 10 mins in a gt4 was enough to make my mind up. I really don’t think that you can compare the two if I’m honest.
sjc said:
Might be worth throwing a Noble in the mix to try based on your criteria?
There’s a lovely red 19,000 mile 3R just come up on our FB pages at very decent money.
I nearly swapped mine for a GT410 Sport last year from Hilton and Moss, lovely thing and more practical but even that didn’t have the drama or anywhere near the pace of my M400.
I am lucky enough to have been in an 3r which is still a standout car for me 20 years later. I'd be interested to hear about your ownership, it seems online that the reliability is not great and maintenance can be high, I know they are a little fragile. I absolutely love them although I put them more in the Exige bracket, not against one, but would need to know I won't be at the side of the road when driving to France or Scotland.There’s a lovely red 19,000 mile 3R just come up on our FB pages at very decent money.
I nearly swapped mine for a GT410 Sport last year from Hilton and Moss, lovely thing and more practical but even that didn’t have the drama or anywhere near the pace of my M400.
simsith said:
sjc said:
Might be worth throwing a Noble in the mix to try based on your criteria?
There’s a lovely red 19,000 mile 3R just come up on our FB pages at very decent money.
I nearly swapped mine for a GT410 Sport last year from Hilton and Moss, lovely thing and more practical but even that didn’t have the drama or anywhere near the pace of my M400.
I am lucky enough to have been in an 3r which is still a standout car for me 20 years later. I'd be interested to hear about your ownership, it seems online that the reliability is not great and maintenance can be high, I know they are a little fragile. I absolutely love them although I put them more in the Exige bracket, not against one, but would need to know I won't be at the side of the road when driving to France or Scotland.There’s a lovely red 19,000 mile 3R just come up on our FB pages at very decent money.
I nearly swapped mine for a GT410 Sport last year from Hilton and Moss, lovely thing and more practical but even that didn’t have the drama or anywhere near the pace of my M400.
I bought my M400 at 7k miles, it's now done about 52,000 miles.The only time it's left me stranded was when the battery went kaput through lack of use and me not putting it on trickle!... we simply push started it and off I went It's been serviced every year irrespective of mileage, and like virtually every other Noble still out there I'd imagine, all the possible area's of potential issues have been addressed.We did a nigh on 1000 mile road trip over the course of 6 days to the IOM last year, (where it did it first ever track session )and it didn't miss a beat save for a slight brake wobble which meant new discs ( it's first replacement set and only its second set of pads at over 50k miles).
I shake my head in disbelief when I read about some of the Emira owners problems, because I've not had that amount of frustration in 18 years let alone 18 months.Just bare in mind that Nobles are now anything between 20 and 25 years old. I did like the 410GT Sport when I drove it very much, but other than practicality it seemed a pretty large backward step in performance,(mines been upgraded to circa 455-460 bhp) and you could even feel the weight compared with the Noble. If the Noble didn't exist, I'd quite likely have one… but it does.
Edited by sjc on Wednesday 19th February 16:59
Very simple, the Lotus ‘Sport’ badge was originally like Ford, Audi or Porsche RS. Lighter, firmer, more carbon, more track focused. When the GT410 Sport came out it was the only Evora and many in the factory thought Lotus had gone too far it was too aggressive, no arm rests to save weight, too firm (by Lotus standards), too loud and that the older Evora buyer might like something softer and calmer for the road. The boss at the time Phil Popham was one of them apparently and they cooked up the GT410 which has softer dampers, arm rests, no carbon panels which means slightly improved rear visibility but also a bit more weight and less downforce. Of course to make it confusing most of the Sport parts could be optioned back in!
GT410 basically took the car back to Evora 400 spec.
GT410 Sport is the successor to the 80kg lighter Evora Sport 410 which came with carbon race seats.
Many older road drivers would probably prefer the GT410 but the Sport version looks cooler, has loads of carbon and in reality is still very nicely damped for the road certainly compared to other makers RS products but the Evora was always known for exceptional ride quality and some internally felt it had lost that. Very few ordered the GT410 in the end, super rare today.
GT410 basically took the car back to Evora 400 spec.
GT410 Sport is the successor to the 80kg lighter Evora Sport 410 which came with carbon race seats.
Many older road drivers would probably prefer the GT410 but the Sport version looks cooler, has loads of carbon and in reality is still very nicely damped for the road certainly compared to other makers RS products but the Evora was always known for exceptional ride quality and some internally felt it had lost that. Very few ordered the GT410 in the end, super rare today.
Edited by twinturban on Friday 21st February 10:45
simsith said:
Hi, can anyone help me understand the difference with a Sport 410 and gt 410 Sport, is there a preference and why, they seem very simular
To give my summery on all the cars you have mentioned.- Emira V6. I have driven the Emira quite a few times. Its very nice, handles well but inside the car all you can hear is the supercharger whine and not so much the exhaust tone, great if thats your thing. I would suggest the Emira is more a day to day car then a weekend toy.
- GT410 Sport. I have owned the GT410 Sport and sold it due to the seats sitting too high and not so comfy. Everything else about the car i loved and the exhuast sound is probably the best sounding car i have ever owned. Also the GT410 Sport has 2 'very' small seats in the back. More suited to children then adults! Never had any issues with the car.
- 410 Sport. Currently own a 410 Sport (below) and would probably never sell. Perfect for a weekend car, light, fast, sounds amazing and handles great! The carbon bucket seats are very good. You sit lower down and i found them comfy on longer drives. Just about to have a Komo-Tec ECU tune to bring it to about 435. Torque rather then top end is the major gain here.
philnotts said:
To give my summery on all the cars you have mentioned.
- Emira V6. I have driven the Emira quite a few times. Its very nice, handles well but inside the car all you can hear is the supercharger whine and not so much the exhaust tone, great if thats your thing. I would suggest the Emira is more a day to day car then a weekend toy.
- GT410 Sport. I have owned the GT410 Sport and sold it due to the seats sitting too high and not so comfy. Everything else about the car i loved and the exhuast sound is probably the best sounding car i have ever owned. Also the GT410 Sport has 2 'very' small seats in the back. More suited to children then adults! Never had any issues with the car.
- 410 Sport. Currently own a 410 Sport (below) and would probably never sell. Perfect for a weekend car, light, fast, sounds amazing and handles great! The carbon bucket seats are very good. You sit lower down and i found them comfy on longer drives. Just about to have a Komo-Tec ECU tune to bring it to about 435. Torque rather then top end is the major gain here.
Thank you, your car looks amazing, so the seata you have, are these the exige ones? There is a prort for sale at the moment, bit its had the seats swapped to Sparco, i assume this is now the same seat and issie as gt410 sport.- Emira V6. I have driven the Emira quite a few times. Its very nice, handles well but inside the car all you can hear is the supercharger whine and not so much the exhaust tone, great if thats your thing. I would suggest the Emira is more a day to day car then a weekend toy.
- GT410 Sport. I have owned the GT410 Sport and sold it due to the seats sitting too high and not so comfy. Everything else about the car i loved and the exhuast sound is probably the best sounding car i have ever owned. Also the GT410 Sport has 2 'very' small seats in the back. More suited to children then adults! Never had any issues with the car.
- 410 Sport. Currently own a 410 Sport (below) and would probably never sell. Perfect for a weekend car, light, fast, sounds amazing and handles great! The carbon bucket seats are very good. You sit lower down and i found them comfy on longer drives. Just about to have a Komo-Tec ECU tune to bring it to about 435. Torque rather then top end is the major gain here.
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