Evora - first 200 models
Discussion
Twit said:
dom180 said:
I wouldn't say all the options are essential really - it seems to have a fair bit of kit as standard - I'd be quite happy with just forged alloys, rear seats, sports pack and metallic. I like the close ratio gear-box option. ( - They should have done that as an option on the 111R as they could supply but didn't market it.)
Tech pack is just a stereo system upgrade/bluetooth/cruise control and tyre pressure monitor and the Premium pack is just lots of leather (Recaros in a lessor leather are standard). Porsche charge more for similar options.
Re commments on discounts, Lotus/dealers may also discount - from a pricing perspective Lotus undercharged for the Elise given the long waiting lists initially.
I think that understates the options. Without the tech pack you don't get things like a ipod link or more importantly the phone adaption. People who are going to buy this car (if anyone does!) will need the phone options etc, I could'nt not have it in a new car! The premium pack I can see an argument, but everyone will want the door panels to match the seats etc in terms of leather, without that it doesnt!! Also, a base spec car will be worth nothing in 3 years, you will have to spec up if you want to get rid of it at some point.Tech pack is just a stereo system upgrade/bluetooth/cruise control and tyre pressure monitor and the Premium pack is just lots of leather (Recaros in a lessor leather are standard). Porsche charge more for similar options.
Re commments on discounts, Lotus/dealers may also discount - from a pricing perspective Lotus undercharged for the Elise given the long waiting lists initially.
Edited by dom180 on Sunday 17th May 10:57
I do see that Lotus are trying to follow the Porsche model of low base price and make money on options. They won't get away with it, Porsche do because of the heritage of the product; Lotus are miles away on that front! If I did even think about it I would want everything I want at under 50K or I would not even consider it. In reality I won't bother, when the time comes it'll be off to Porsche or Aston... That is a real pity as I love Lotus but they have messed this one up big time with stupid pricing!
This is the point Lotus seem to have missed, alot of the people that buy in this market aren't that interested in Lotus/heritage, they want toys and most of the other nonsense. To make matters worst the markets has taken a huge dip and a lot of the people of whom would just buy it for the hell don't exist anymore, they've all been made redundant
Basic marketing, know your market, if it doesn't exists adapt I.e. price, I don't like to say this but it reminds me of a time not to long ago, Europa and that was in a buoyant market
Boggy
Boggy said:
This is the point Lotus seem to have missed, alot of the people that buy in this market aren't that interested in Lotus/heritage, they want toys and most of the other nonsense.
Yes but as someone has already pointed out, Lotus are interested in "a lot of the people that buy". They couldnt cope with the numbers. They are hoping to get just a few of the customers in that price bracket, ones who dont want to have a 911 like their dentist / estate agent etc.To my mind the problem is that the Evora isnt enough of a Lotus. Ok its the 4 seat version, but it hasnt got enough "edge". Not light enough. Not quite hard core enough. Not "track day" enough. To my mind they should have built a bigger more powerful and more comfortable big brother to the Elise / Exige for those who put the "sport" in sports car before the every day practicality.
cars like the 911 or the Aston are getting so fat and saloon like these days that they arent really sports cars in the trad sense.
Im afraid all cars are getting fatter/bigger these days
check out that new Nissan sports car that weighs the same as an A6 estate ...but its faster than anything around a track they say
I cant remember which mag did it last year - a comparison with cars of 20 years ago, showing how all cars have "gone up a size"
a modern supermini (Jazz was used as example) was as big as a 20 yr old family saloon - Vauxhall Cavalier
so now we have a 1400Kg Lotus "sportscar" and we complain
but if you want a 1000Kg Lotus "sportscar" you can buy an Exige
maybe we will see a trend to make lighter cars soon, rather than each subsequent model getting heavier ....Lotus have done well to build a 911 equivalent (as far as seats go) that weighs less than one IMO
check out that new Nissan sports car that weighs the same as an A6 estate ...but its faster than anything around a track they say
I cant remember which mag did it last year - a comparison with cars of 20 years ago, showing how all cars have "gone up a size"
a modern supermini (Jazz was used as example) was as big as a 20 yr old family saloon - Vauxhall Cavalier
so now we have a 1400Kg Lotus "sportscar" and we complain
but if you want a 1000Kg Lotus "sportscar" you can buy an Exige
maybe we will see a trend to make lighter cars soon, rather than each subsequent model getting heavier ....Lotus have done well to build a 911 equivalent (as far as seats go) that weighs less than one IMO
bogie said:
Im afraid all cars are getting fatter/bigger these days
check out that new Nissan sports car that weighs the same as an A6 estate ...but its faster than anything around a track they say
I cant remember which mag did it last year - a comparison with cars of 20 years ago, showing how all cars have "gone up a size"
a modern supermini (Jazz was used as example) was as big as a 20 yr old family saloon - Vauxhall Cavalier
so now we have a 1400Kg Lotus "sportscar" and we complain
but if you want a 1000Kg Lotus "sportscar" you can buy an Exige
maybe we will see a trend to make lighter cars soon, rather than each subsequent model getting heavier ....Lotus have done well to build a 911 equivalent (as far as seats go) that weighs less than one IMO
but more than a Cayman interestingly....check out that new Nissan sports car that weighs the same as an A6 estate ...but its faster than anything around a track they say
I cant remember which mag did it last year - a comparison with cars of 20 years ago, showing how all cars have "gone up a size"
a modern supermini (Jazz was used as example) was as big as a 20 yr old family saloon - Vauxhall Cavalier
so now we have a 1400Kg Lotus "sportscar" and we complain
but if you want a 1000Kg Lotus "sportscar" you can buy an Exige
maybe we will see a trend to make lighter cars soon, rather than each subsequent model getting heavier ....Lotus have done well to build a 911 equivalent (as far as seats go) that weighs less than one IMO
a-ha ...but wheres the back seats in a Cayman people will say
it seems to sit in a niche of its own, in between the 2 Porsche models I think ...a Cayman with back seats
...maybe that will be its sucess...a bit like the Elise - its not comfy enough to be a Boxster alternative, but not hardcore enough to play with the Caterhams and such like .....
it seems to sit in a niche of its own, in between the 2 Porsche models I think ...a Cayman with back seats
...maybe that will be its sucess...a bit like the Elise - its not comfy enough to be a Boxster alternative, but not hardcore enough to play with the Caterhams and such like .....
Certainly an interesting thread.
Perhaps there are three questions all muddled up which need to be separated.
1) Is it a good car?
2) Will it sell?
3) Will it generate a profit for Lotus?
1) IMO, despite initial reservations that answer is a clear yes. Rides like a Jag apparently, yet is a sports car, ok quality, practicalish, looks pretty dramatic though not necessarily beautiful and would make you feel special every journey. "Life is not a dress rehearsal" etc and handmade specialness cannot be matched by Porsches or Audis. I think it will depreciate slowly, stay rare and reward the buyer and make a good ownership proposition. Still that fecking chrome door handle is vile.
2) Price has been raised as an issue here, but Loti were never cheap. It would be nice if it were cheaper obviously, but handmade costs. Brits do not appreciate what a bad reputation British cars still carry in Europe and US for quality and unreliability. German cars have not been that reliable in the last twenty years but it somehow never sticks. There has to be some kind a big warrantee to get over that, hope the weak pound will help with that. The Evora is a great leap in to the unknown in a new market niche etc etc.
3) Thats the question that I was moaning about in my other post. The peripheral costs of running a car company are quite frankly terrifying. Legal/crash/emissions/warrantee/pensions/logistics/parts storage/contracts etc. Hence you need to be making serious money on every car to clear all the sideshow shyte costs and it looks very expensive to make to me - from my half arsed poorly informed opinion! =:O)
Perhaps there are three questions all muddled up which need to be separated.
1) Is it a good car?
2) Will it sell?
3) Will it generate a profit for Lotus?
1) IMO, despite initial reservations that answer is a clear yes. Rides like a Jag apparently, yet is a sports car, ok quality, practicalish, looks pretty dramatic though not necessarily beautiful and would make you feel special every journey. "Life is not a dress rehearsal" etc and handmade specialness cannot be matched by Porsches or Audis. I think it will depreciate slowly, stay rare and reward the buyer and make a good ownership proposition. Still that fecking chrome door handle is vile.
2) Price has been raised as an issue here, but Loti were never cheap. It would be nice if it were cheaper obviously, but handmade costs. Brits do not appreciate what a bad reputation British cars still carry in Europe and US for quality and unreliability. German cars have not been that reliable in the last twenty years but it somehow never sticks. There has to be some kind a big warrantee to get over that, hope the weak pound will help with that. The Evora is a great leap in to the unknown in a new market niche etc etc.
3) Thats the question that I was moaning about in my other post. The peripheral costs of running a car company are quite frankly terrifying. Legal/crash/emissions/warrantee/pensions/logistics/parts storage/contracts etc. Hence you need to be making serious money on every car to clear all the sideshow shyte costs and it looks very expensive to make to me - from my half arsed poorly informed opinion! =:O)
I echo that already said that Lotus have missed the market.... again.
At the cheap end, people want the hardcore stripped out experience that we have come to know and love...
When a NEW Evora is priced at the point of some exceptional second hand cars with perhaps (open to opinion, obviously) more prestigous brand names; V8 Vantage, 911, Maserati Gransport, etc etc..... and you factor in how much you'll lose as you drive it off the forecourt unless it has the capability of a 911 GT3 at the £50k budget... it's stuck in new car nomansland.
Oh and I'm another that isn't overly keen on the expanse of bodywork over the rear wheels... I'm sure the mk2 will look much better.
At the cheap end, people want the hardcore stripped out experience that we have come to know and love...
When a NEW Evora is priced at the point of some exceptional second hand cars with perhaps (open to opinion, obviously) more prestigous brand names; V8 Vantage, 911, Maserati Gransport, etc etc..... and you factor in how much you'll lose as you drive it off the forecourt unless it has the capability of a 911 GT3 at the £50k budget... it's stuck in new car nomansland.
Oh and I'm another that isn't overly keen on the expanse of bodywork over the rear wheels... I'm sure the mk2 will look much better.
Still you will end up with a car that will be understated, cool and fairly rare with mainstream handling / parts etc ....
Still has a chance even against older competition.
I suppose M3 / Grantorismo etc might be in the foreground
Older alternatives maybe as you say....
GT3 - Defently a good choice, and after being in one I am converted
Gransport - Had a go in one, well its on my wish list with a Tubi / Larini, nearly got one but bottled it on the running costs. But again a true Italian beast. and steering felt good as did the interior. ummm talking myself into one again.....
M3 CSL - Still awsome, and again on my list of things to own for a bit, but with a BMW warranty
I would still love an Evora in Scandel green or something Lotus esk....
Would look good in the car park of boring 911's / Audi etc......
Still has a chance even against older competition.
I suppose M3 / Grantorismo etc might be in the foreground
Older alternatives maybe as you say....
GT3 - Defently a good choice, and after being in one I am converted
Gransport - Had a go in one, well its on my wish list with a Tubi / Larini, nearly got one but bottled it on the running costs. But again a true Italian beast. and steering felt good as did the interior. ummm talking myself into one again.....
M3 CSL - Still awsome, and again on my list of things to own for a bit, but with a BMW warranty
I would still love an Evora in Scandel green or something Lotus esk....
Would look good in the car park of boring 911's / Audi etc......
Grinnders said:
I echo that already said that Lotus have missed the market.... again.
At the cheap end, people want the hardcore stripped out experience that we have come to know and love...
When a NEW Evora is priced at the point of some exceptional second hand cars with perhaps (open to opinion, obviously) more prestigous brand names; V8 Vantage, 911, Maserati Gransport, etc etc..... and you factor in how much you'll lose as you drive it off the forecourt unless it has the capability of a 911 GT3 at the £50k budget... it's stuck in new car nomansland.
Oh and I'm another that isn't overly keen on the expanse of bodywork over the rear wheels... I'm sure the mk2 will look much better.
At the cheap end, people want the hardcore stripped out experience that we have come to know and love...
When a NEW Evora is priced at the point of some exceptional second hand cars with perhaps (open to opinion, obviously) more prestigous brand names; V8 Vantage, 911, Maserati Gransport, etc etc..... and you factor in how much you'll lose as you drive it off the forecourt unless it has the capability of a 911 GT3 at the £50k budget... it's stuck in new car nomansland.
Oh and I'm another that isn't overly keen on the expanse of bodywork over the rear wheels... I'm sure the mk2 will look much better.
Edited by Stu_00 on Monday 18th May 11:52
I think there is a hell of a lot of underestimation of what Lotus have achieved here.
Porsche are well known and respected for providing a very fast and capable sports car that is as reliable as a swiss watch. That does not mean they are cheap to own and run.
Lotus have not produced a new car since the mid 90's. On the first attempt they have delivered a car which the press keep on mentioning "porsche" as the benchmark and saying it is better.
Porsche have been refining the 911 for .. 50 years or so (not bothered to look up exactly how long). I used to have an instructor that would say "if you practiced for 20 years to beat people up with your ear lobes, you would be pretty good" They have had decades to perfect a design.
Since about 2003, Lotus have really pulled themself together. They have perfected a number of technologies and are using thier VVA platform etc. and this seems to have been delivered in this car. Mike Kimberley has turned things around, why? Because he is delivering a new model. Not an Elise chassis in drag, this is the next step forward.
I am forever an optimist when it comes to Lotus, I want them to win, I want thier products to keep on doing what my beloved 'Liz does so well and that is to very simply put a big smile on my face.
Lets look at the market with the point of view tha you are looking for a sports car. What are you going to buy?
S2k? Old and going out of production. Porsche? Ticks all the boxes but let me guess, you will get it in silver or black (Yawn) and it will not be a destinctive car, calling it boring would give it more credit than it deserves. Audi TT - god that car is quick in the right hands, but once again it is a little common. Nissan? that is a hard one, probably faster but not as pretty and not as good to drive. Mushybushy? The new one is better looking but you are buying an overpriced rep wagon with the sort of steroids shot up its arse that would make Bane's head pop - not for me. Secondhand? no fair, compare like for like!
There are many capable fast cars but not many brilliant sports cars.
The Elise is not Lotus best known car. The lotus Icon is the Esprit, with bond girls, torpedoes and machine guns. Images conjured up with Porsche, city boys and medallions, couldnt be further from the public desire at the moment. Porsche will continue to sell bucket loads of cars to people who think £60k is cheap, they will continue to make 60% markup on the cars and they will continue to buy up the German car industry. Good luck to them. That is not what Lotus are trying to do - they dont have the capacity
The price? I was talking to a Lotus dealer a few days ago about this, he was very succinct, if you have £50k to spend on a car at the mo, £60k isnt a problem.
My problem with the car is the delay before they bring out the supercharged 350bhp model. Why would you buy a caffine free model when you know that in the next 18 months there will be a full on model out.
Porsche are well known and respected for providing a very fast and capable sports car that is as reliable as a swiss watch. That does not mean they are cheap to own and run.
Lotus have not produced a new car since the mid 90's. On the first attempt they have delivered a car which the press keep on mentioning "porsche" as the benchmark and saying it is better.
Porsche have been refining the 911 for .. 50 years or so (not bothered to look up exactly how long). I used to have an instructor that would say "if you practiced for 20 years to beat people up with your ear lobes, you would be pretty good" They have had decades to perfect a design.
Since about 2003, Lotus have really pulled themself together. They have perfected a number of technologies and are using thier VVA platform etc. and this seems to have been delivered in this car. Mike Kimberley has turned things around, why? Because he is delivering a new model. Not an Elise chassis in drag, this is the next step forward.
I am forever an optimist when it comes to Lotus, I want them to win, I want thier products to keep on doing what my beloved 'Liz does so well and that is to very simply put a big smile on my face.
Lets look at the market with the point of view tha you are looking for a sports car. What are you going to buy?
S2k? Old and going out of production. Porsche? Ticks all the boxes but let me guess, you will get it in silver or black (Yawn) and it will not be a destinctive car, calling it boring would give it more credit than it deserves. Audi TT - god that car is quick in the right hands, but once again it is a little common. Nissan? that is a hard one, probably faster but not as pretty and not as good to drive. Mushybushy? The new one is better looking but you are buying an overpriced rep wagon with the sort of steroids shot up its arse that would make Bane's head pop - not for me. Secondhand? no fair, compare like for like!
There are many capable fast cars but not many brilliant sports cars.
The Elise is not Lotus best known car. The lotus Icon is the Esprit, with bond girls, torpedoes and machine guns. Images conjured up with Porsche, city boys and medallions, couldnt be further from the public desire at the moment. Porsche will continue to sell bucket loads of cars to people who think £60k is cheap, they will continue to make 60% markup on the cars and they will continue to buy up the German car industry. Good luck to them. That is not what Lotus are trying to do - they dont have the capacity
The price? I was talking to a Lotus dealer a few days ago about this, he was very succinct, if you have £50k to spend on a car at the mo, £60k isnt a problem.
My problem with the car is the delay before they bring out the supercharged 350bhp model. Why would you buy a caffine free model when you know that in the next 18 months there will be a full on model out.
yeah, you cant do the comparison between 2 year old cars ....well I guess you could, then the Evora is a competitor to a new Honda S2000 - which would you choose?
the new car vs lightly used car of twice the price 2 yrs old argument is down to personal preference
I know a few people who like to buy new cars...no matter how much money you tell them they are losing !
I guess its a sign of the economic times though, that many of us who would have quite happily spent £50K on some never never PCP deal on a new car, are instead looking at £25K 3 year old cars
I mean if you are worried about your job/financial future, you dont want £50K on the knock hanging around your neck ...Ive seen so many friends end up in negative equity on a car as soon as they drive it away, but they "got a good deal" of course
the new car vs lightly used car of twice the price 2 yrs old argument is down to personal preference
I know a few people who like to buy new cars...no matter how much money you tell them they are losing !
I guess its a sign of the economic times though, that many of us who would have quite happily spent £50K on some never never PCP deal on a new car, are instead looking at £25K 3 year old cars
I mean if you are worried about your job/financial future, you dont want £50K on the knock hanging around your neck ...Ive seen so many friends end up in negative equity on a car as soon as they drive it away, but they "got a good deal" of course
I had a deposit down (car 35) which I cancelled when I lost my job. I've been following the Evora/Eagle for a couple of years.
I think Lotus got lucky with the market positioning. The first to really suffer will be the track day cars. Radicals, Atoms, 2-11, KTM. As much as we love them all they will be the luxuries people can do without.
I find the "it fits in a space between the Cayman and 911" amusing because that space is only artificially created by Porsche and there have been plenty of articles claiming that a top spec Cayman is better than a base 911.
Where is doesn't work is price and that's all to do with currencies. When it was being costed the £ was strong and the $, € and Yen weak. That's reversed now which has made the car too expensive in the UK market but will balance out in the US where the market will be strong. Hence the auto version and so many US press at the event.
It doesn't help me. I'm a little distressed to see they haven't sold the first 200.
Simon
I think Lotus got lucky with the market positioning. The first to really suffer will be the track day cars. Radicals, Atoms, 2-11, KTM. As much as we love them all they will be the luxuries people can do without.
I find the "it fits in a space between the Cayman and 911" amusing because that space is only artificially created by Porsche and there have been plenty of articles claiming that a top spec Cayman is better than a base 911.
Where is doesn't work is price and that's all to do with currencies. When it was being costed the £ was strong and the $, € and Yen weak. That's reversed now which has made the car too expensive in the UK market but will balance out in the US where the market will be strong. Hence the auto version and so many US press at the event.
It doesn't help me. I'm a little distressed to see they haven't sold the first 200.
Simon
brilliantbencollins said:
Certainly an interesting thread.
Perhaps there are three questions all muddled up which need to be separated.
1) Is it a good car?
2) Will it sell?
3) Will it generate a profit for Lotus?
1) IMO, despite initial reservations that answer is a clear yes. Rides like a Jag apparently, yet is a sports car, ok quality, practicalish, looks pretty dramatic though not necessarily beautiful and would make you feel special every journey. "Life is not a dress rehearsal" etc and handmade specialness cannot be matched by Porsches or Audis. I think it will depreciate slowly, stay rare and reward the buyer and make a good ownership proposition. Still that fecking chrome door handle is vile.
2) Price has been raised as an issue here, but Loti were never cheap. It would be nice if it were cheaper obviously, but handmade costs. Brits do not appreciate what a bad reputation British cars still carry in Europe and US for quality and unreliability. German cars have not been that reliable in the last twenty years but it somehow never sticks. There has to be some kind a big warrantee to get over that, hope the weak pound will help with that. The Evora is a great leap in to the unknown in a new market niche etc etc.
3) Thats the question that I was moaning about in my other post. The peripheral costs of running a car company are quite frankly terrifying. Legal/crash/emissions/warrantee/pensions/logistics/parts storage/contracts etc. Hence you need to be making serious money on every car to clear all the sideshow shyte costs and it looks very expensive to make to me - from my half arsed poorly informed opinion! =:O)
well summed up...Perhaps there are three questions all muddled up which need to be separated.
1) Is it a good car?
2) Will it sell?
3) Will it generate a profit for Lotus?
1) IMO, despite initial reservations that answer is a clear yes. Rides like a Jag apparently, yet is a sports car, ok quality, practicalish, looks pretty dramatic though not necessarily beautiful and would make you feel special every journey. "Life is not a dress rehearsal" etc and handmade specialness cannot be matched by Porsches or Audis. I think it will depreciate slowly, stay rare and reward the buyer and make a good ownership proposition. Still that fecking chrome door handle is vile.
2) Price has been raised as an issue here, but Loti were never cheap. It would be nice if it were cheaper obviously, but handmade costs. Brits do not appreciate what a bad reputation British cars still carry in Europe and US for quality and unreliability. German cars have not been that reliable in the last twenty years but it somehow never sticks. There has to be some kind a big warrantee to get over that, hope the weak pound will help with that. The Evora is a great leap in to the unknown in a new market niche etc etc.
3) Thats the question that I was moaning about in my other post. The peripheral costs of running a car company are quite frankly terrifying. Legal/crash/emissions/warrantee/pensions/logistics/parts storage/contracts etc. Hence you need to be making serious money on every car to clear all the sideshow shyte costs and it looks very expensive to make to me - from my half arsed poorly informed opinion! =:O)
I agree, I think it probably *is* a good car, from what I have seen and read, they are a major step forward in design and build over anything Lotus have done before (I am still not sure about the look and the 2+2 bit, but that does not make it a bad car)
the other two points are really a function of each other, personally I think it's too expensive(for whatever reason) and thus they will not shift enough to make a decent profit, IMHO, better to shift more numbers at less margin, than a few at high prices.
Scuffers said:
bencollins said:
Certainly an interesting thread.
Perhaps there are three questions all muddled up which need to be separated.
1) Is it a good car?
2) Will it sell?
3) Will it generate a profit for Lotus?
1) IMO, despite initial reservations that answer is a clear yes. Rides like a Jag apparently, yet is a sports car, ok quality, practicalish, looks pretty dramatic though not necessarily beautiful and would make you feel special every journey. "Life is not a dress rehearsal" etc and handmade specialness cannot be matched by Porsches or Audis. I think it will depreciate slowly, stay rare and reward the buyer and make a good ownership proposition. Still that fecking chrome door handle is vile.
2) Price has been raised as an issue here, but Loti were never cheap. It would be nice if it were cheaper obviously, but handmade costs. Brits do not appreciate what a bad reputation British cars still carry in Europe and US for quality and unreliability. German cars have not been that reliable in the last twenty years but it somehow never sticks. There has to be some kind a big warrantee to get over that, hope the weak pound will help with that. The Evora is a great leap in to the unknown in a new market niche etc etc.
3) Thats the question that I was moaning about in my other post. The peripheral costs of running a car company are quite frankly terrifying. Legal/crash/emissions/warrantee/pensions/logistics/parts storage/contracts etc. Hence you need to be making serious money on every car to clear all the sideshow shyte costs and it looks very expensive to make to me - from my half arsed poorly informed opinion! =:O)
well summed up...Perhaps there are three questions all muddled up which need to be separated.
1) Is it a good car?
2) Will it sell?
3) Will it generate a profit for Lotus?
1) IMO, despite initial reservations that answer is a clear yes. Rides like a Jag apparently, yet is a sports car, ok quality, practicalish, looks pretty dramatic though not necessarily beautiful and would make you feel special every journey. "Life is not a dress rehearsal" etc and handmade specialness cannot be matched by Porsches or Audis. I think it will depreciate slowly, stay rare and reward the buyer and make a good ownership proposition. Still that fecking chrome door handle is vile.
2) Price has been raised as an issue here, but Loti were never cheap. It would be nice if it were cheaper obviously, but handmade costs. Brits do not appreciate what a bad reputation British cars still carry in Europe and US for quality and unreliability. German cars have not been that reliable in the last twenty years but it somehow never sticks. There has to be some kind a big warrantee to get over that, hope the weak pound will help with that. The Evora is a great leap in to the unknown in a new market niche etc etc.
3) Thats the question that I was moaning about in my other post. The peripheral costs of running a car company are quite frankly terrifying. Legal/crash/emissions/warrantee/pensions/logistics/parts storage/contracts etc. Hence you need to be making serious money on every car to clear all the sideshow shyte costs and it looks very expensive to make to me - from my half arsed poorly informed opinion! =:O)
I agree, I think it probably *is* a good car, from what I have seen and read, they are a major step forward in design and build over anything Lotus have done before (I am still not sure about the look and the 2+2 bit, but that does not make it a bad car)
the other two points are really a function of each other, personally I think it's too expensive(for whatever reason) and thus they will not shift enough to make a decent profit, IMHO, better to shift more numbers at less margin, than a few at high prices.
dunno about the volumes - I thought they had a few lines with about 10,000 units per year production available...and they run at just a few thousand
profit wise ...well, other than Lotus finance people, im sure no-one really knows how much profit is in per car at that price, and how many they need to sell to break even ...it may be 2000 units, it may be 10000 units ....who knows...
anyone know how much the project cost?
profit wise ...well, other than Lotus finance people, im sure no-one really knows how much profit is in per car at that price, and how many they need to sell to break even ...it may be 2000 units, it may be 10000 units ....who knows...
anyone know how much the project cost?
Scuffers said:
dom180 said:
I don't know about heritage - Lotus used to have a fairly successful GP team if I recall - remind me how many F1 constructor championships has Porsche won?
and how many Le-Mans titles have Lotus won?or GT titles?
(Porsche have only ever been in F1 as an engine supplier under the name TAG, won 2 world championships with them in the back of a Mclaren.)
Edited by Scuffers on Sunday 17th May 18:37
lonefurrow said:
Scuffers said:
dom180 said:
I don't know about heritage - Lotus used to have a fairly successful GP team if I recall - remind me how many F1 constructor championships has Porsche won?
and how many Le-Mans titles have Lotus won?or GT titles?
(Porsche have only ever been in F1 as an engine supplier under the name TAG, won 2 world championships with them in the back of a Mclaren.)
forgot about the 804 (bit before my time!), but you are right, and (at the time) a very striking car to look at.
Edited by Scuffers on Monday 18th May 13:58
Look forward to seeing the review!!!!
Really want to get a go in one soon, really think I will like it
Really want to get a go in one soon, really think I will like it
Boggy said:
I'd just like to say that I'm a prat!
Before anyone else says it, just got off the phone from Mrs Boggy and she's announced that after we've brought our next house she will be buying an Evora
So we will have one but not until next year
Boggy
Before anyone else says it, just got off the phone from Mrs Boggy and she's announced that after we've brought our next house she will be buying an Evora
So we will have one but not until next year
Boggy
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