The Official Arsenal - 14 x FA Cup winners thread - Vol 4
Discussion
Raygun said:
With all due respect Arsenal have always been one of the best run clubs in the country so I don't think there's ever been any danger of ending up like Leeds.
The football team has been weak for a long time now, they can't compete, if Wenger won't admit it there's no hope. What's the point of having a state of the art stadium if the football being played on it is on a lower level? The predictability of every time we play a big team, Wenger comes out with excuses every time.
Also all those feeling sorry for him you'll be pleased to know he's getting next season's salary as well so don't worry about having a whip round for him.
I wasn't suggesting Arsenal would do a Leeds (that takes mismanagement on a monumental scale!), only pointing out that their foundations are probably more solid than those of pretty much any other club (and, while that's not entirely down to Wenger, he must surely take some credit for that?). That said I do understand why the supporters want to see that translated into better quality on the pitch and are frustrated that hasn't happened a bit sooner. The football team has been weak for a long time now, they can't compete, if Wenger won't admit it there's no hope. What's the point of having a state of the art stadium if the football being played on it is on a lower level? The predictability of every time we play a big team, Wenger comes out with excuses every time.
Also all those feeling sorry for him you'll be pleased to know he's getting next season's salary as well so don't worry about having a whip round for him.
However, I say again Arsenal's track record over the last 10 years hasn't been at all bad compared to most; yes you haven't hit the heights scaled by the Invincibles but then again who has? You've been winning trophies and competing consistently at the business end of the Premier League and there aren't many clubs who can say that; therefore, despite the protestations of some fans, I'd say the Arsenal glass over the last decade has still been more half full than half empty!
I do think Wenger's departure will present an opportunity for the club to move forward and I think and hope they'll take it. It's good for the Premier League to have several sides capable of fighting it out for the title and Arsenal being back at the top can only be good for the game IMO; along with Liverpool they were the great rivals to the Leeds team I grew up supporting and I'd be happy to either as Premier League Champions next season (and genuinely hope both are successful in their respective European campaigns this season).
jammy-git said:
Clearly the club has known for some months, if not when Wenger signed a new contract last year. Hence the new recruits in management positions.
The pitch from Gazidis on Friday was puke-able,trying to put a personal and 'hurt' slant on events - all smokescreen. Our once great club has been run as a mercenary business for many years,once people stopped turning up (I told you to do that !) that was the final nail in the coffin. They could see their investments at risk. Wenger assisted in the cash cow for ages but as we all know PL football has overtaken his theories on how to play the game,to an excruciating point at CL level. And we're a big club - Wenger himself promised European success along with the Emirates stadium.As in all walks of life,you stay valid in work if you perform and keep abreast or ahead of developments,for Wenger this clearly wasn't happening 5,6, or even 7 seasons ago,all the more sickening for him being THE pioneer 22 years ago. Evidently living on past glories and stubbornness he was allowed to and refused to accept that. You're only a good as your last performance ..... And as others have said,Fergie/bacon face knew when his time was up.
WonkeyDonkey said:
Always enjoyed watching Arsenal play under Wenger.
End of an era for me, growing up it was always about Wenger and Ferguson's teams. Now every team just has their merry go round of managers and players.
I'm pretty sure no player has become a better player since leaving Wengers arsenal team though.
End of an era for me, growing up it was always about Wenger and Ferguson's teams. Now every team just has their merry go round of managers and players.
I'm pretty sure no player has become a better player since leaving Wengers arsenal team though.
JNW1 said:
leglessAlex said:
The Wenger of the past few years has looked out of touch and the commentary has reflected that. But overall? He made a pretty big impact in English football, 3 League titles and 7 FA Cups isn't awful either. Better than Liverpool and Spurs, and the same amount of League titles as City in that time.
I agree! Ok, he's looked a bit past his sell-by date for a little while but overall his contribution has been massive and some of the disrespectful comments thrown his direction have been undeserved IMO. I genuinely hope he can go out on a high by winning the Euorpa League and enjoys whatever he chooses to do when he leaves Arsenal.To all those Gooners who've been moaning constantly about Wenger for what seems like an eternity, all I can say is us Leeds fans would have been more than happy to have swapped places - and underachieved to the same degree - over the last 14 years; being in the Premier League isn't a right never mind being at the very top of it (or "only" in the top 4!).
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Alfahorn said:
Arsenal Football Club is a far worse state on the pitch than when he arrived at the club.
Not really, about level. Rioch finished 5th, this season you'll finish 6th. Rioch went out of the cup in R3, same as Wenger. Rioch lost in the league cup semi, Wenger lost in the final.Of course of the pitch you're in a much better state, new ground built and paid for, squillions in the bank.
Ructions said:
RacingPete said:
It is interesting looking at some of the vitriol aimed at Wenger recently before the announcement, which all comes from a position of expectation - in factual terms if he wins the Europa cup then that will be 4 trophies in the last 5 years.
That is the same 5 years that Poch has been in charge and won nothing. And 3 years of Klopp winning nothing (though maybe this year).
Good luck to Wenger, he made a huge difference to arsenal!
He did indeed, three league titles and seven FA Cups and he came oh so close to winning a Champions League in 2006, it would be a fitting send off if he was to win the Europa League in what would be his last game in charge of the Gunners.That is the same 5 years that Poch has been in charge and won nothing. And 3 years of Klopp winning nothing (though maybe this year).
Good luck to Wenger, he made a huge difference to arsenal!
I find it sad, yet predictable that the vitriol is coming from so called fans of Arsenal and in particular the gobs
tes on Arsenal TV. Thankfully fans of other clubs are showing the man the respect that he deserves. Maybe those who have been calling for him to go will in the fullness of time truly appreciate what they have just lost.The next manager is a big step in the future of Arsenal, ask Liverpool or Man Utd or anyone else who has been in a similar position. Getting it right is difficult, get it wrong and you could be waiting 30 years or more.
some seriously stupid no nothing 'football' fans here.
Dinlowgoon said:
The pitch from Gazidis on Friday was puke-able,trying to put a personal and 'hurt' slant on events - all smokescreen. Our once great club has been run as a mercenary business for many years,once people stopped turning up (I told you to do that !) that was the final nail in the coffin. They could see their investments at risk. Wenger assisted in the cash cow for ages but as we all know PL football has overtaken his theories on how to play the game,to an excruciating point at CL level. And we're a big club - Wenger himself promised European success along with the Emirates stadium.
I have to agree with this.Wenger should never have promised so much as well, that gets remembered as false promises. Wasn't that long ago that he promised to win the PL again within 3 years....and all we did in that 3 years was drop further behind everyone else........
He really believed his own hype.
Was also left non-plussed by Wengers 'dig' at the fans as well yesterday (or was it in the pre-match press conf?) again proof that he didn't practice what he preached, in that he always said no one was bigger or more important than the club, including himself.
It is a shame though that it ended up this way, although I'm sure he'll get his statue by next year though.
so glad hes gone, we can compete again without willfully shooting ourselves in the foot. We can have a manager who does tactics, addresses glaring omission int he team, DM, CB, GK that have existed for years, stop overpaying average favorites, or perpetual sicknotes (sorry santi you were v good but madness keep retaining you), pays attention to the opposition. etc.
however also sad. he GG and rioch are all i have known, and mostly AW. as i was only 11 in the dieing days of GG's underrated (and superior to AW, givens the time vs trophy coefficient) regime. AW was someone you could trust and felt he knew what he was doing so well in the first 10 years or so. i had implicit trust. However that rapidly evaporated over the last decade, and despite all the respect and gratefulness for what he did for us, playing the best football the league has ever seen in our pomp, the invincible's etc, the last decade has been a state of decline, vanity, ego and going agaisnt any advise or what the general media/public said. how else can you explain almunia in goal for 4 years, denilson, song, wally, etc.
AW had a great base to work with but he deserves full credit for what he did well and full consternation for what came after. Arsenal are historically the 2nd/3rd biggest club in England. we were a top club before him and we will be again. claims of careful what you wish for are garbage, as are those of clubs saying we would love to be in your position...well unless your united or Liverpool those comments are BS! comparisons of fergie are also wrong. he won the league albeit with a declining squad, we have an ok squad that undoubtedly needs strengthening but more could be got from it and are in mid table. i dont expect the new man to turn things around straight away, there a lot of rebuilding needed.
im sad someone i trusted so much became what he did, and that change has had to happen. still no one likes change but its often healthy.
thanks arsene, you stayed to long and your 2nd 10 years would have got you sacked at any other big club, but no one can take away the first 8-9 years.
ps. eternal bottlers lose again against united and the master manager poch is now on his way. so funny. such a good manager he is yet hes never one anything in his managerial career...
pps. please not arteta, rodgers or vieira.
however also sad. he GG and rioch are all i have known, and mostly AW. as i was only 11 in the dieing days of GG's underrated (and superior to AW, givens the time vs trophy coefficient) regime. AW was someone you could trust and felt he knew what he was doing so well in the first 10 years or so. i had implicit trust. However that rapidly evaporated over the last decade, and despite all the respect and gratefulness for what he did for us, playing the best football the league has ever seen in our pomp, the invincible's etc, the last decade has been a state of decline, vanity, ego and going agaisnt any advise or what the general media/public said. how else can you explain almunia in goal for 4 years, denilson, song, wally, etc.
AW had a great base to work with but he deserves full credit for what he did well and full consternation for what came after. Arsenal are historically the 2nd/3rd biggest club in England. we were a top club before him and we will be again. claims of careful what you wish for are garbage, as are those of clubs saying we would love to be in your position...well unless your united or Liverpool those comments are BS! comparisons of fergie are also wrong. he won the league albeit with a declining squad, we have an ok squad that undoubtedly needs strengthening but more could be got from it and are in mid table. i dont expect the new man to turn things around straight away, there a lot of rebuilding needed.
im sad someone i trusted so much became what he did, and that change has had to happen. still no one likes change but its often healthy.
thanks arsene, you stayed to long and your 2nd 10 years would have got you sacked at any other big club, but no one can take away the first 8-9 years.
ps. eternal bottlers lose again against united and the master manager poch is now on his way. so funny. such a good manager he is yet hes never one anything in his managerial career...
pps. please not arteta, rodgers or vieira.
Edited by theplayingmantis on Monday 23 April 11:21
aeropilot said:
Was also left non-plussed by Wengers 'dig' at the fans as well yesterday (or was it in the pre-match press conf?) again proof that he didn't practice what he preached, in that he always said no one was bigger or more important than the club, including himself.
It is a shame though that it ended up this way, although I'm sure he'll get his statue by next year though.
Yep,that boiled my p*ss as well. The arrogance,he actually believes he's immune to criticism. Unlike every other human being.It is a shame though that it ended up this way, although I'm sure he'll get his statue by next year though.
theplayingmantis said:
WonkeyDonkey said:
Always enjoyed watching Arsenal play under Wenger.
End of an era for me, growing up it was always about Wenger and Ferguson's teams. Now every team just has their merry go round of managers and players.
I'm pretty sure no player has become a better player since leaving Wengers arsenal team though.
End of an era for me, growing up it was always about Wenger and Ferguson's teams. Now every team just has their merry go round of managers and players.
I'm pretty sure no player has become a better player since leaving Wengers arsenal team though.
Solitude said:
We are not going to get an experienced coach.
Look at all the appointments in the last year.....behind the scenes.
Everything points to a coaching only roll.....and the big boys aren't gonna work under those constraints.
I tend to agree.Look at all the appointments in the last year.....behind the scenes.
Everything points to a coaching only roll.....and the big boys aren't gonna work under those constraints.
Gazidis has had to play second fiddle to Wenger for the last ten years....he and the new bloke from Barca and Sven are not going to be bringing in a new manager coach who is going to marginalise them.
Gazidis's Friday press conference was all about him...he basically gave a speech that could haev been published on the club website and then refused to answer any questions at all that people asked. Pointless exercise unless your motive is to make sure everyone knows who's in charge now.....
It's pretty clear Wenger didn't want to leave, I think in the circumstances it's been handled as well as it could have been. Apparently there were not many Wenger chants at the game yesterday. Be interesting to see what happens at the Burnley game.
Personally I hope they do something really special to show appreciation for what he's done at the Burnly game. I am sure an awful lot of his ex players will be there for it.
People can b
h and moan but I think the major thing Wenger gave the club was instead of building on that 2004 team we ripped it apart because we had to to pay for the stadium....you can see from the finances now that the only thing that kept the club solvent was finding players like RVP, Adebayor, Nasri and Cesc etc etc for buttons and selling them on for big money to pay the bills. That 2008 team should have won the title...if it had it could have been a very different story but the team disintegrated pretty quickly because they simply couldn't afford to pay the bills without selling players. Cheib said:
theplayingmantis said:
WonkeyDonkey said:
Always enjoyed watching Arsenal play under Wenger.
End of an era for me, growing up it was always about Wenger and Ferguson's teams. Now every team just has their merry go round of managers and players.
I'm pretty sure no player has become a better player since leaving Wengers arsenal team though.
End of an era for me, growing up it was always about Wenger and Ferguson's teams. Now every team just has their merry go round of managers and players.
I'm pretty sure no player has become a better player since leaving Wengers arsenal team though.
theplayingmantis said:
Cheib said:
theplayingmantis said:
WonkeyDonkey said:
Always enjoyed watching Arsenal play under Wenger.
End of an era for me, growing up it was always about Wenger and Ferguson's teams. Now every team just has their merry go round of managers and players.
I'm pretty sure no player has become a better player since leaving Wengers arsenal team though.
End of an era for me, growing up it was always about Wenger and Ferguson's teams. Now every team just has their merry go round of managers and players.
I'm pretty sure no player has become a better player since leaving Wengers arsenal team though.
Cheib said:
Solitude said:
We are not going to get an experienced coach.
Look at all the appointments in the last year.....behind the scenes.
Everything points to a coaching only roll.....and the big boys aren't gonna work under those constraints.
I tend to agree.Look at all the appointments in the last year.....behind the scenes.
Everything points to a coaching only roll.....and the big boys aren't gonna work under those constraints.
Gazidis has had to play second fiddle to Wenger for the last ten years....he and the new bloke from Barca and Sven are not going to be bringing in a new manager coach who is going to marginalise them.
Gazidis's Friday press conference was all about him...he basically gave a speech that could haev been published on the club website and then refused to answer any questions at all that people asked. Pointless exercise unless your motive is to make sure everyone knows who's in charge now.....
It's pretty clear Wenger didn't want to leave, I think in the circumstances it's been handled as well as it could have been. Apparently there were not many Wenger chants at the game yesterday. Be interesting to see what happens at the Burnley game.
Personally I hope they do something really special to show appreciation for what he's done at the Burnly game. I am sure an awful lot of his ex players will be there for it.
People can b
h and moan but I think the major thing Wenger gave the club was instead of building on that 2004 team we ripped it apart because we had to to pay for the stadium....you can see from the finances now that the only thing that kept the club solvent was finding players like RVP, Adebayor, Nasri and Cesc etc etc for buttons and selling them on for big money to pay the bills. That 2008 team should have won the title...if it had it could have been a very different story but the team disintegrated pretty quickly because they simply couldn't afford to pay the bills without selling players. jammy-git said:
Isn't it all a bit subjective. Clearly Poch is the lesser successful manager when compared to Wenger, however you could argue he's built a better team in the time he's been at Spurs, compared to the current Arsenal squad whilst also finishing above Arsenal a similar amount of times to vice versa.
silly to compare Poch's first 4 years (when you have the most impact and don't get complacent/arrogant/stubborn) with Wenger's last 4 years of a 22 year career - compare Poch's first 4 years to Wenger's first 4 years for a valid (and far less flattering) comparison IMHOEdited by Adam B on Monday 23 April 13:39
theplayingmantis said:
a fair argument. fatally undermined by the socialist pay structure that rewarded crap like almunia, song, denilson, diaby, bendtner etc, riches far beyond there talent level and left us lumped with them for years as no one would pay their wages. that said the old fool actually renewed their contratcs many times in most cases undermining is parsimonious reputation even more.
I agree on most of that, but Song was decent as a defensive mid and Diabys problem wasn’t talent, he was a worldy on his day but had that Sunderland clogger Dan Smith not ruined his ankle things would have been somewhat different I have no doubt.The fact that he was given contract after contract in much the same, but equally sad, as also Cazorla is mis management on Wengers side.
Cupramax said:
I agree on most of that, but Song was decent as a defensive mid and Diabys problem wasn’t talent, he was a worldy on his day but had that Sunderland clogger Dan Smith not ruined his ankle things would have been somewhat different I have no doubt.
The fact that he was given contract after contract in much the same, but equally sad, as also Cazorla is mis management on Wengers side.
It's all tied into the nicey nicey Arsenal way, big contrats, repeat contracts, unfathomable faith in average players. One big happy (mediocre) family. We need someone with a bit of steel in there. We seem to want to be a business, charge top dollar, create a worldwide brand etc but you can't have it both ways. The fact that he was given contract after contract in much the same, but equally sad, as also Cazorla is mis management on Wengers side.
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