The Official Scottish Football Thread

[moanthebairns]

sas62 said:

sas62 said:

Driver101 said:

There is less and less people even interested in religion. I would bet a very high percentage of Celtic and Rangers supporters from around Scotland have next to no interest in the religious side of things.

The reason most follow Celtic or Rangers will be linked to who was the most successful at that time.

It is the same with the amount of people who identify ad having an English team. They all end up supporting only the successful ones.

Agree that most have no interest in actual religion but the majority definitely chose who to support according to familial loyalties which effectively means along religious lines. Its pretty tough to stand alongside your fellow supporters and listen to them singing and chanting against the religion you identify with. Similar as to why you don't get so many catholics following Norn Ireland. It's self perpetuating.

Actually its quite funny imagining the conversations. "Yeah da I know you and granpa follow Rangers but I've decided that Celtic are more successful so if you don't mind I'm going to support them going forward."

I once hung around with a lad at school, he, his brother and father were both Rangers daft. Always seen in the strips and they did go to a few games when Rangers were going for 9 in a row.

A few years later once the tables had turned I bumped into his brother in town head to toe in the latest Celtic strip. fk me it stopped me in my steps, its one of the few moments in my life I was speechless.

[Edinburger]

Driver101 said:

moanthebairns said:

JuniorD said:

As for the last comment, I can't speak for Rangers fans, but I have no religious hatred of Rangers supporters. I think it is fair to say that Celtic fans might hate the opposing club, and dislike their supporters, but their perceived religion - I've absolutely nothing against it. Any other fans willing to comment on that?

aw come on.....REALLY. I can buy that you might feel that way so do many others. But come on, its a well known fact the two clubs are built on the bigotry between one and another.

There is less and less people even interested in religion. I would bet a very high percentage of Celtic and Rangers supporters from around Scotland have next to no interest in the religious side of things.

The reason most follow Celtic or Rangers will be linked to who was the most successful at that time.

It is the same with the amount of people who identify ad having an English team. They all end up supporting only the successful ones.

The reason most people support Celtic or Rangers is down to either i) glory hunters or ii) family loyalties, and those are based on republicans v loyalists which is often loosely translated as Catholics v Protestants (yes, yes, I know!).

Regardless, this is disproportionate support is one of the main reasons other teams struggle due to the biopoly of Celtic and Rangers and therefore mst of the funding and spend.

[Edinburger]

moanthebairns said:

Driver101 said:

There is less and less people even interested in religion. I would bet a very high percentage of Celtic and Rangers supporters from around Scotland have next to no interest in the religious side of things.

The reason most follow Celtic or Rangers will be linked to who was the most successful at that time.

It is the same with the amount of people who identify ad having an English team. They all end up supporting only the successful ones.

I must be imagining hearing tens of thousands singing about fking the pope or the IRA, on the tele or at matches. Being in pubs before the game hearing this, witnessing collection jars for the IRA.

I support your supporting successful team statement, I do, but the reason both teams are successful is because sectarianism was prolific decades ago in this country and it was passed down generations. In my lifetime I am seeing a change away from it but routing out the bigotry associated with your clubs will take another century at least.

The thing that annoys the rest of Scottish football club supporters is the denial of these acts. Like it doesn't happen. We all know there is rouge supporters of every club. Falkirk flung eyeballs onto the pitch against the pars, some supporters have acted like dicks at time, everyone has them. We don't try to cover them up or come up with 'yeah but what about them'.

Some good posts here, bairns.

But I don't think it will take centuries to route out. Today's schoolkids are taught a lot about religious tolerance. It will gradually dwindle out. But at the end of the day, a lot of it is based on tribalism and/or ignorance and stupidity.

[simoid]

Edinburger said:

Some good posts here, bairns.

But I don't think it will take centuries to route out. Today's schoolkids are taught a lot about religious tolerance. It will gradually dwindle out. But at the end of the day, a lot of it is based on tribalism and/or ignorance and stupidity.

Taught about tolerance and inclusion in their catholic schools...

[simoid]

Edinburger said:

simoid said:

As much as I would’ve liked the treble treble to fail at that hurdle, it was heartening to see Aberdeen’s ‘boot anything that moves’ tactics get called out with cards again.

Unfortunate that sectarian singing made the headlines once more, though. I did have a think about a rule that could sort it and is relatively easy and cost effective to enforce but is a massive can of worms (what isn’t?):

Caution a player if a match official hears bigotry from the stands, then send a player off for the next offence. Not a chance would anyone shout or chant fenian/Orange/black b****** if they thought it would have a direct effect on the pitch.

Can we really allow fan behaviour to influence cautions on the pitch or match points?

We'd have fans of team A going to team B's game and misbehaving, just to see team B docked points or players.

Well, currently the authorities are allowing all fan behaviour and misbehaviour. Fines and stuff seem rather abstract and indirect to me even if liability is strict, but direct punishment of the team on the park would put footballers and fans in the same boat.

[Edinburger]

simoid said:

Edinburger said:

Some good posts here, bairns.

But I don't think it will take centuries to route out. Today's schoolkids are taught a lot about religious tolerance. It will gradually dwindle out. But at the end of the day, a lot of it is based on tribalism and/or ignorance and stupidity.

Taught about tolerance and inclusion in their catholic schools...

Good point!

[Edinburger]

simoid said:

Edinburger said:

simoid said:

As much as I would’ve liked the treble treble to fail at that hurdle, it was heartening to see Aberdeen’s ‘boot anything that moves’ tactics get called out with cards again.

Unfortunate that sectarian singing made the headlines once more, though. I did have a think about a rule that could sort it and is relatively easy and cost effective to enforce but is a massive can of worms (what isn’t?):

Caution a player if a match official hears bigotry from the stands, then send a player off for the next offence. Not a chance would anyone shout or chant fenian/Orange/black b****** if they thought it would have a direct effect on the pitch.

Can we really allow fan behaviour to influence cautions on the pitch or match points?

We'd have fans of team A going to team B's game and misbehaving, just to see team B docked points or players.

Well, currently the authorities are allowing all fan behaviour and misbehaviour. Fines and stuff seem rather abstract and indirect to me even if liability is strict, but direct punishment of the team on the park would put footballers and fans in the same boat.

If we know throwing a missile at a player will mean 5 points docked (for example) then how many Rangers fans will go to a Celtic match and throw a missile to disadvantage Celtic and help Rangers? It just won't work!

Edited to add - PS Team names are just an example, you get the idea...

[JuniorD]

Edinburger said:

moanthebairns said:

Driver101 said:

There is less and less people even interested in religion. I would bet a very high percentage of Celtic and Rangers supporters from around Scotland have next to no interest in the religious side of things.

The reason most follow Celtic or Rangers will be linked to who was the most successful at that time.

It is the same with the amount of people who identify ad having an English team. They all end up supporting only the successful ones.

I must be imagining hearing tens of thousands singing about fking the pope or the IRA, on the tele or at matches. Being in pubs before the game hearing this, witnessing collection jars for the IRA.

I support your supporting successful team statement, I do, but the reason both teams are successful is because sectarianism was prolific decades ago in this country and it was passed down generations. In my lifetime I am seeing a change away from it but routing out the bigotry associated with your clubs will take another century at least.

The thing that annoys the rest of Scottish football club supporters is the denial of these acts. Like it doesn't happen. We all know there is rouge supporters of every club. Falkirk flung eyeballs onto the pitch against the pars, some supporters have acted like dicks at time, everyone has them. We don't try to cover them up or come up with 'yeah but what about them'.

Some good posts here, bairns.

But I don't think it will take centuries to route out. Today's schoolkids are taught a lot about religious tolerance. It will gradually dwindle out. But at the end of the day, a lot of it is based on tribalism and/or ignorance and stupidity.

Unfortunately I am not so hopeful. I don't think it will ever be rooted out. It's lasted centuries and will last for centuries more. For some people, it's the only thing that defines them.

[Edinburger]

JuniorD said:

Edinburger said:

moanthebairns said:

Driver101 said:

There is less and less people even interested in religion. I would bet a very high percentage of Celtic and Rangers supporters from around Scotland have next to no interest in the religious side of things.

The reason most follow Celtic or Rangers will be linked to who was the most successful at that time.

It is the same with the amount of people who identify ad having an English team. They all end up supporting only the successful ones.

I must be imagining hearing tens of thousands singing about fking the pope or the IRA, on the tele or at matches. Being in pubs before the game hearing this, witnessing collection jars for the IRA.

I support your supporting successful team statement, I do, but the reason both teams are successful is because sectarianism was prolific decades ago in this country and it was passed down generations. In my lifetime I am seeing a change away from it but routing out the bigotry associated with your clubs will take another century at least.

The thing that annoys the rest of Scottish football club supporters is the denial of these acts. Like it doesn't happen. We all know there is rouge supporters of every club. Falkirk flung eyeballs onto the pitch against the pars, some supporters have acted like dicks at time, everyone has them. We don't try to cover them up or come up with 'yeah but what about them'.

Some good posts here, bairns.

But I don't think it will take centuries to route out. Today's schoolkids are taught a lot about religious tolerance. It will gradually dwindle out. But at the end of the day, a lot of it is based on tribalism and/or ignorance and stupidity.

Unfortunately I am not so hopeful. I don't think it will ever be rooted out. It's lasted centuries and will last for centuries more. For some people, it's the only thing that defines them.

Sad reflection on our society, eh?

[selmahoose]

Edinburger said:

But I don't think it will take centuries to root out. Today's schoolkids are taught a lot about religious tolerance. It will gradually dwindle out. But at the end of the day, a lot of it is based on tribalism and/or ignorance and stupidity.

I've been a Rangers man for more than 60 years - since I was a wee kid far too young to be able to spell sectarian never mind know what it meant.

I'm also a fully paid up church-going presbyterian and take communion at the CoS in Bridgeton. That's also the church used (albeit once a year) by the Black Lodge (the 'spiritual wing' of the Orange Lodge).

In such brief communication as I've had with these Blacks it's very obvious that these are not men who know their Bibles.

It is many years since the front row of the upper stand at Ibrox was a line of dog collars. And I imagine it's much the same at The Piggery.

And whilst there are certainly doctrinal matters of separation between Roman Catholicism and Presbyterian Protestantism which can be (and are) vehemently argued, these days ecumenicalism ensures that there is also amity and Christian fellowship between these two tribes at church level.

Such "discussion" as I've had with Celtic or Rangers fans that has involved 'religion' has evidenced massive ignorance on both sides. Indeed there are very few fans of either tribe who are aware of the matters of doctrine that separate them.

When made aware of this they actually accept it and themselves state that their "differences" aren't religious at all, but political. And when it's pointed out how ignorant they are of what separates their political opinions all that's left is their resort to barking like bad dogs at postmen because thats what bad dogs are expected to do.

Fortunately there are very very very few who need to take it any further than getting a bit choleric for 90 minutes whilst they're all being bad dogs together.

In my opinion it's no longer anything to do with religion OR politics. Just the chance to express their "inner ahole" in a happy place where almost everyone else is an ahole too.

Edited by selmahoose on Tuesday 16th April 17:21

[Driver101]

moanthebairns said:

Driver101 said:

There is less and less people even interested in religion. I would bet a very high percentage of Celtic and Rangers supporters from around Scotland have next to no interest in the religious side of things.

The reason most follow Celtic or Rangers will be linked to who was the most successful at that time.

It is the same with the amount of people who identify ad having an English team. They all end up supporting only the successful ones.

I must be imagining hearing tens of thousands singing about fking the pope or the IRA, on the tele or at matches. Being in pubs before the game hearing this, witnessing collection jars for the IRA.

I support your supporting successful team statement, I do, but the reason both teams are successful is because sectarianism was prolific decades ago in this country and it was passed down generations. In my lifetime I am seeing a change away from it but routing out the bigotry associated with your clubs will take another century at least.

The thing that annoys the rest of Scottish football club supporters is the denial of these acts. Like it doesn't happen. We all know there is rouge supporters of every club. Falkirk flung eyeballs onto the pitch against the pars, some supporters have acted like dicks at time, everyone has them. We don't try to cover them up or come up with 'yeah but what about them'.

I'm not saying offensive songs aren't sung. They quite clearly are. However, a good percentage of people singing them don't have any real belief in them, and often no understanding.

If they weren't in their group/mob they wouldn't even dare speak or behave like they do when they are.

[technodup]

moanthebairns said:

I must be imagining hearing tens of thousands singing about fking the pope or the IRA, on the tele or at matches. Being in pubs before the game hearing this, witnessing collection jars for the IRA.

You're definitely going to the wrong pubs.

[moanthebairns]

technodup said:

moanthebairns said:

I must be imagining hearing tens of thousands singing about fking the pope or the IRA, on the tele or at matches. Being in pubs before the game hearing this, witnessing collection jars for the IRA.

You're definitely going to the wrong pubs.

Last time I was in the louden tavern because i wanted a few more pints before watching us getting pumped.
If you've seen that scene in trainspotting 2 where they walk in get started on and have to join in with the locals....it was pretty much this but with Tina Turner.

[moanthebairns]

Driver101 said:

moanthebairns said:

Driver101 said:

There is less and less people even interested in religion. I would bet a very high percentage of Celtic and Rangers supporters from around Scotland have next to no interest in the religious side of things.

The reason most follow Celtic or Rangers will be linked to who was the most successful at that time.

It is the same with the amount of people who identify ad having an English team. They all end up supporting only the successful ones.

I must be imagining hearing tens of thousands singing about fking the pope or the IRA, on the tele or at matches. Being in pubs before the game hearing this, witnessing collection jars for the IRA.

I support your supporting successful team statement, I do, but the reason both teams are successful is because sectarianism was prolific decades ago in this country and it was passed down generations. In my lifetime I am seeing a change away from it but routing out the bigotry associated with your clubs will take another century at least.

The thing that annoys the rest of Scottish football club supporters is the denial of these acts. Like it doesn't happen. We all know there is rouge supporters of every club. Falkirk flung eyeballs onto the pitch against the pars, some supporters have acted like dicks at time, everyone has them. We don't try to cover them up or come up with 'yeah but what about them'.

I'm not saying offensive songs aren't sung. They quite clearly are. However, a good percentage of people singing them don't have any real belief in them, and often no understanding.

If they weren't in their group/mob they wouldn't even dare speak or behave like they do when they are.

So that makes it alright. Put it this way falkirk used to sing a song about common wealth cousins and pars. Would that make me not racist to shout that at the terraces if I never meant it.

[Kakopetria]

My senior school was nondenominational and the catholic friends I made then are still my friends many years later.

[Driver101]

moanthebairns said:

Driver101 said:

moanthebairns said:

Driver101 said:

There is less and less people even interested in religion. I would bet a very high percentage of Celtic and Rangers supporters from around Scotland have next to no interest in the religious side of things.

The reason most follow Celtic or Rangers will be linked to who was the most successful at that time.

It is the same with the amount of people who identify ad having an English team. They all end up supporting only the successful ones.

I must be imagining hearing tens of thousands singing about fking the pope or the IRA, on the tele or at matches. Being in pubs before the game hearing this, witnessing collection jars for the IRA.

I support your supporting successful team statement, I do, but the reason both teams are successful is because sectarianism was prolific decades ago in this country and it was passed down generations. In my lifetime I am seeing a change away from it but routing out the bigotry associated with your clubs will take another century at least.

The thing that annoys the rest of Scottish football club supporters is the denial of these acts. Like it doesn't happen. We all know there is rouge supporters of every club. Falkirk flung eyeballs onto the pitch against the pars, some supporters have acted like dicks at time, everyone has them. We don't try to cover them up or come up with 'yeah but what about them'.

I'm not saying offensive songs aren't sung. They quite clearly are. However, a good percentage of people singing them don't have any real belief in them, and often no understanding.

If they weren't in their group/mob they wouldn't even dare speak or behave like they do when they are.

So that makes it alright. Put it this way falkirk used to sing a song about common wealth cousins and pars. Would that make me not racist to shout that at the terraces if I never meant it.

I've never once said anything remotely close to that ever.


Why on earth are you seeking out the most bitter and hard-core of pubs if you can't tolerate their behaviour?

Why go there to be further offended and line their pockets?

[JuniorD]

Has anyone else heard the allegation that Lewis Ferguson spat at Edouard?

[Barga]

JuniorD said:

Has anyone else heard the allegation that Lewis Ferguson spat at Edouard?

As I said earlier Ferguson was auditioning for the rangers!

[technodup]

moanthebairns said:

Last time I was in the louden tavern because i wanted a few more pints before watching us getting pumped.
If you've seen that scene in trainspotting 2 where they walk in get started on and have to join in with the locals....it was pretty much this but with Tina Turner.

Aye but there wasn't a whip round for the ra, so it evens itself out.

[moanthebairns]

Driver101 said:

I've never once said anything remotely close to that ever.


Why on earth are you seeking out the most bitter and hard-core of pubs if you can't tolerate their behaviour?

Why go there to be further offended and line their pockets?

You just did. You admitted songs are sung but (or it seems anyway) tried to play down the magnitude of it.
Tolerate it, I find it fking hilarious (at times) that grown men have hatred to others due to their pathetic sky pixie beliefs. Especially when half of them would be hard pushed to remember the last time they set foot into a religious establishment.
But mainly it was an early kick off and I'd only had a pint. It was right outside the subway. I line their pockets going to away games.

What I can't stand is the look at us we aren't bigoted these aren't sectarian songs or it's only letting of steam for 90 minutes pish. If your going to be an ahole bigot at very least admit it.