The Official Manchester United Thread [Vol 6]

[anniesdad]

Ascayman said:

Tottenham underachieving ive heard it all now just when you think this thread cant get any further from reality.

You've certainly not overachieved. If you read what I wrote you'll see that I think you've done about as well as can be expected in the league but that your cup runs have been largely woeful especially your champions league campaign. That's why I feel you've underachieved. You've got to have greater aspirations than you have with your current team who play nice football no doubt but are they are team of winners...?

Top level football is ultimately about trophy wins. That's what football fans will remember not coming 2nd.

Anyway it's not all over yet, there's still time for you to win the title. United may well prove yet to be your ultimate undoing however.

[ORD]

Pogba out for tonight. Bugger.

Halves our chance of winning, in my view.

[anniesdad]

Pogba is a miss, despite what loads might think of him, he makes us tick. Carrick, Fellaini and Herrera to do Pogba's job.

I'm optimistic about our chances tonight, their defence is there to be got at and we've been solid for a while. Let's keep the unbeaten run going!

[ORD]

anniesdad said:

Pogba is a miss, despite what loads might think of him, he makes us tick. Carrick, Fellaini and Herrera to do Pogba's job.

I'm optimistic about our chances tonight, their defence is there to be got at and we've been solid for a while. Let's keep the unbeaten run going!

Exactly that - without Pogba, we are relying on Herrera (decent) plus an old man and a lump. Not great.

[Ascayman]

anniesdad said:

Ascayman said:

Tottenham underachieving ive heard it all now just when you think this thread cant get any further from reality.

You've certainly not overachieved. If you read what I wrote you'll see that I think you've done about as well as can be expected in the league but that your cup runs have been largely woeful especially your champions league campaign. That's why I feel you've underachieved. You've got to have greater aspirations than you have with your current team who play nice football no doubt but are they are team of winners...?

Top level football is ultimately about trophy wins. That's what football fans will remember not coming 2nd.

Anyway it's not all over yet, there's still time for you to win the title. United may well prove yet to be your ultimate undoing however.

Jesus, you have to be on a wind up, ill not even argue just point out the facts

Net spend over the last 5 years

http://www.totalsportek.com/money/premier-league-c...

Wage bill

http://www.totalsportek.com/money/english-premier-...

Premier League table

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league...

Its the very definition of overachieving to anyone with even a remote sense of reality.

[Gavia]

Ascayman said:

Jesus, you have to be on a wind up, ill not even argue just point out the facts

Net spend over the last 5 years

http://www.totalsportek.com/money/premier-league-c...

Wage bill

http://www.totalsportek.com/money/english-premier-...

Premier League table

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league...

Its the very definition of overachieving to anyone with even a remote sense of reality.

Your net spend is skewed by the Bale money. Discount that and you jump right up the table. Over / under achieving isn't necessarily about money, although it always seems to be with Spurs. It's about the talent on the pitch and where you were last year. Whilst you've now got more points than ever before, you're still not likely to win the league. You have not won any other cups either.

Until you win things, your team will be considered by many (not all) to be underachieving.

[anniesdad]

Ascayman said:

Jesus, you have to be on a wind up, ill not even argue just point out the facts

Net spend over the last 5 years

http://www.totalsportek.com/money/premier-league-c...

Wage bill

http://www.totalsportek.com/money/english-premier-...

Premier League table

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league...

Its the very definition of overachieving to anyone with even a remote sense of reality.

Here we go about money again. I also posted that Spurs and Arsenal are the only 2 teams that haven't experienced a change in manager/system in the last 3 years giving you consistency. I think that's far more relevant than you seem to do.

It's about 11 human beings v 11 human beings at the end of the day. Pochettino has hit on a system that seems to work for you, the others despite their spend are finding their feet. You seem to be overlooking the blindingly obvious.

[anniesdad]

ORD said:

Exactly that - without Pogba, we are relying on Herrera (decent) plus an old man and a lump. Not great.

Jose will defnitely go out to spoil City's party and keep it solid. We've just got to keep fingers crossed that the front men have their goalscoring boots on tonight!

Kompany (used to be immense), Otamendi and Stones aren't all that. Maybe it's time for Rooney to become everyones hero again?!

[ORD]

It all depends on what is meant by "underachieving".

Spurs are doing brilliantly given their financial resources and lack of success in recent decades. It is not easy to split the big 4/5.

On the other hand, given the quality of their players and the stability, they really should not have done so poorly in the cups and have failed to push Chelsea at least a little harder.

Another way of looking at it is this: if not now, when? We have probably seen "Peak Spurs" and they have nothing to show for it, despite the other PL sides all doing fairly badly.

[anniesdad]

ORD said:

On the other hand, given the quality of their players and the stability, they really should not have done so poorly in the cups and have failed to push Chelsea at least a little harder.

This is my point. They were woeful in the champions league and were knocked out of the Europa at last 32 stage. I think they should have done far better in these two comps.

We certainly helped their push to win the title beating Chelsea the other day, getting that winner last night won't do them any harm, still only 4 points in it. Chelsea's run in is on paper easier than Spurs so I still expect Chelsea to win but it's not over.

[Ascayman]

anniesdad said:

This is my point. They were woeful in the champions league and were knocked out of the Europa at last 32 stage. I think they should have done far better in these two comps.

We certainly helped their push to win the title beating Chelsea the other day, getting that winner last night won't do them any harm, still only 4 points in it. Chelsea's run in is on paper easier than Spurs so I still expect Chelsea to win but it's not over.

You keep banging on about the Champions league, what were you expecting? its was our second ever time in the competition and we played every single game away from home, did you expect us to win it?

The league is the only true barometer and we have more points than ever before with 5 games left. We have far less recourses than everyone else in the top 6 and are yet above 5 of them.

Right so we have Utd to thank for us being in a title race?? you never disappoint ill give you that

[jammy-git]

Gavia said:

Your net spend is skewed by the Bale money. Discount that and you jump right up the table. Over / under achieving isn't necessarily about money, although it always seems to be with Spurs. It's about the talent on the pitch and where you were last year. Whilst you've now got more points than ever before, you're still not likely to win the league. You have not won any other cups either.

Until you win things, your team will be considered by many (not all) to be underachieving.

I've heard this a few times and think it's a ridiculous argument.

Yes, the sale of one player skews the net spend, but Spurs then spent that income on several other players, so it balances out. And why pick out one large player sale and say that skews things?

You could say the same regarding your Ronaldo sale. If you take that money out your net spend is much higher. It doesn't discount the fact that you still have a Ronaldo shaped whole in the team that you have to spend to fill.

[anniesdad]

Ascayman said:

You keep banging on about the Champions league, what were you expecting? its was our second ever time in the competition and we played every single game away from home, did you expect us to win it?

Right so we have Utd to thank for us being in a title race?? you never disappoint ill give you that

That old Wembley chestnut, what a crock...

You filled that place with I'm guessing your own supporters and yet couldn't muster an atmosphere that says as much about your fans as it does the players. No wonder you run around knocking each other out!

As you're so amazing I did expect you to get through the group, although in fairness it did appear that Pochettino prioritised getting top 4 again so as to play in the champions league as opposed to playing in the champions league.

[Ascayman]

anniesdad said:

That old Wembley chestnut, what a crock...

You filled that place with I'm guessing your own supporters and yet couldn't muster an atmosphere that says as much about your fans as it does the players. No wonder you run around knocking each other out!

As you're so amazing I did expect you to get through the group, although in fairness it did appear that Pochettino prioritised getting top 4 again so as to play in the champions league as opposed to playing in the champions league.

The atmosphere was fantastic (its not our manager than moans about his own fans..) are you suggesting that the only thing that makes home, home is the fans? you get more ridiculous with every comment.

[anniesdad]

Ascayman said:

The atmosphere was fantastic (its not our manager than moans about his own fans..) are you suggesting that the only thing that makes home, home is the fans? you get more ridiculous with every comment.

I realised a while ago that you potatoes are a lost cause. I think i'll leave it at that.

[Gavia]

jammy-git said:

I've heard this a few times and think it's a ridiculous argument.

Yes, the sale of one player skews the net spend, but Spurs then spent that income on several other players, so it balances out. And why pick out one large player sale and say that skews things?

You could say the same regarding your Ronaldo sale. If you take that money out your net spend is much higher. It doesn't discount the fact that you still have a Ronaldo shaped whole in the team that you have to spend to fill.

I agree about the Ronaldomsale distorting things for us, jut that was a long time ago now. I do t see net spend as a barometer of anything.

[franki68]

Money does not determine under or overachievement ,expectation is what determines that.
Regardless of how much is spent I would have higher expectation of united next season than this season because the manager has a season under his belt and the process of building a decent team is underway.
Money spent can be a factor in your level of expectation but it is not the sole factor.

[Gavia]

franki68 said:

Money does not determine under or overachievement ,expectation is what determines that.
Regardless of how much is spent I would have higher expectation of united next season than this season because the manager has a season under his belt and the process of building a decent team is underway.
Money spent can be a factor in your level of expectation but it is not the sole factor.

Completely agree. The amount of money will keep rising too as the PL and CL money gets ever more ridiculous.

[DeltonaS]

Gavia said:

franki68 said:

Money does not determine under or overachievement ,expectation is what determines that.
Regardless of how much is spent I would have higher expectation of united next season than this season because the manager has a season under his belt and the process of building a decent team is underway.
Money spent can be a factor in your level of expectation but it is not the sole factor.

Completely agree. The amount of money will keep rising too as the PL and CL money gets ever more ridiculous.

Sure......

At the end of the day and seen over a longer period it's money spend what determines the position in the leaque.

The Messi's, Ronaldo's and Kane's determine the outcome of matches, not managers.

And Mourinho knows that all too well given his affection for expensive, proven players, his fixation on a fixed lineup and his complete lack of interest in younger players. Even If they are highly talented.

[GTO-3R]

DeltonaS said:

and his complete lack of interest in younger players.