The Official Liverpool FC Thread [Vol 12]

The Official Liverpool FC Thread [Vol 12]

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jammy-git

29,776 posts

211 months

Saturday 29th July 2017
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It's no surprise you're selectively choosing bits of what has been reported in the media to try and build some fictitious case against FSG.

Apparently Keita IS for sale despite Rangnick AND Mateschitz stating several times that he won't be sold this summer but you will believe the RUMOURS that they're asking price is 70m EUR. But when we state Coutinho is not for sale under any circumstances you choose not to believe that either.

NRS

22,079 posts

200 months

Saturday 29th July 2017
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RedTrident said:
We do know who our main targets were. Salah, VvD, Keita.

We did not bid the price that they wanted. He is their prized player. Flip the situation around.

When he's available at 2/3rds of the price he'll be going elsewhere. Especially after we courted him but didn't push the boat out.

They are businessmen. They are here to make money. The occasional 4th place will do them fine as the tv money rolls in.

I'm not sure why your finding it so difficult to see. It's like buying an old house, doing it up a little bit then selling at a huge profit. Whilst you owned it the neighborhood has also undergone gentrification.

There are no other targets. Klopp said as much at the end of the season of knowing who he wanted.
Most has been said by Jammy - you believe the rumours on the asking price, yet don't believe the rumours that we matched it in the end.

Dear goodness. Not pushing the boat out... by bidding what seems to be 65-75 million for one player unproven in the PL!!!! What would you consider pushing the boat out is?!

Ha ha ha! No other targets - yet FSG is the problem. If Klopp only had 1 target then he is the stupid one (not that I think he does only have that). You cannot just aim at one person. You make a list and prioritise - try and get your preferred person, but if that doesn't work then move on to the next person. Or in your case you give up?

FSG are clearly willing to invest and have made the club a lot better than it was previously. However ironically you complain about the type of owner we are against which is throw as much money at the issue as possible. So that is wrong, FSG is wrong for being more balanced, and so as we know the government should take the clubs from them and give it to the fans. Why not move onto a club that isn't in the PL for supporting as it is never going to happen in the PL? You might even get a bit happier - although as many people here suspect you are happy when complaining so maybe it's best to stay supporting Liverpool.

jammy-git said:
It's no surprise you're selectively choosing bits of what has been reported in the media to try and build some fictitious case against FSG.

Apparently Keita IS for sale despite Rangnick AND Mateschitz stating several times that he won't be sold this summer but you will believe the RUMOURS that they're asking price is 70m EUR. But when we state Coutinho is not for sale under any circumstances you choose not to believe that either.
You forgot that although the rumours about the asking price are true the rumours we did bid it in the end are not true!

jammy-git

29,776 posts

211 months

Saturday 29th July 2017
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Not only that, but we paid the asking price for Sakho, Lallana, Lambert, Origi, Lovren, Salah. FSG paid £35m for Andy F Carroll. But no, they're stingy and they're incompetence when it comes to transfers has seen this club slip down the league table since their arrival.

RedTrident

8,290 posts

234 months

Saturday 29th July 2017
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Plenty of sources reporting that we did not put a 3rd bid in.

It doesn't matter if he is unproven. You either back the manager in the players he wants to bring in or you don't.

If there were other targets we would have heard about them by now.

If we want to compete as a club then whilst we're on the fringes of the top tier, we have to overpay. We have the history, we have the manager. What we don't have is owners that are prepared to even pay what we generate in income. No one is asking for a sugar daddy, City or Chelsea style.

You can't expect the income to sky rocket and think transfer costs won't go up. We've benefited from this when we're selling average like Ibe for 15 million and Stewart for 8.

You two should co write the letter.



RedTrident

8,290 posts

234 months

Saturday 29th July 2017
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jammy-git said:
It's no surprise you're selectively choosing bits of what has been reported in the media to try and build some fictitious case against FSG.
What's fictitious about it.

We thought we could buy a player and then didn't bid enough to tempt the selling club, even when the player agitated for a move.

We tried to buy a player and we'd even decided how much we were going to pay for him without even speaking to his club then we apologise.

Our star player is wanted by one of the greatest clubs in the world. We've said he is not for sale, Klopp has publicly stated we are not a selling club. Meanwhile the leaks are that we've named our price.

FSG moneyball is buy cheap and sell high. We will see won't we. I reckon £100 million and Coutinho will be gone.


Jacko.1

316 posts

80 months

Saturday 29th July 2017
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When we sold Sterling, that proved to me we aim to buy cheap and sell on- that's business but of course it's not what the fans want. I have said it before, Klopp once said the aim is to buy this years star player, not last years that may be a dud this year. That way, if he does go, they make a profit..

Can't wait for the season to get started as I reckon it's gonna be a cracka although after City have finished spending, there won't be any players left on the market. It's hard not to think of Pep as a good manager but if you just go out and buy the best of everything, he doesn't have a lot to do surely!

pinchmeimdreamin

9,837 posts

217 months

Saturday 29th July 2017
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well I'm watching Leipzig at the minute and He doesn't look like he's worth £75 million to me at the moment.

NRS

22,079 posts

200 months

Saturday 29th July 2017
quotequote all
RedTrident said:
Plenty of sources reporting that we did not put a 3rd bid in.

It doesn't matter if he is unproven. You either back the manager in the players he wants to bring in or you don't.

If there were other targets we would have heard about them by now.

If we want to compete as a club then whilst we're on the fringes of the top tier, we have to overpay. We have the history, we have the manager. What we don't have is owners that are prepared to even pay what we generate in income. No one is asking for a sugar daddy, City or Chelsea style.

You can't expect the income to sky rocket and think transfer costs won't go up. We've benefited from this when we're selling average like Ibe for 15 million and Stewart for 8.

You two should co write the letter.
Plenty of sources say we did put in another offer at or around asking price. You only believe "yours" are right because you can get happy complaining about FSG yet again.

It does matter if you're about to pay a big record fee. Otherwise you end up with Carroll for example. Given your analysis of Salah and Keita do you think Keita is worth 2x the cost of Salah? Is there anyone that would be as good as Keita for a bit less?

Right, so no chance of us signing anyone else this window since 2 are now a no, and 1 we bought? Presumably that is the case if we'd have heard of others?

We have spent an average of 35-45 million over the last 7 seasons. I think it was pounds, might be euros. That is not a negative net spend under FSG.

Costs will go up. Doesn't mean they are worth paying 70 million on a relative unknown who is unproven in PL and had one good season. Put it this way - if we had/do get him and he turns into a flop you'd be getting your kicks from FSG having signed a failure at a much too high cost.

Black can man

31,816 posts

167 months

Saturday 29th July 2017
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Jacko.1 said:
When we sold Sterling, that proved to me we aim to buy cheap and sell on- that's business but of course it's not what the fans want. I have said it before, Klopp once said the aim is to buy this years star player, not last years that may be a dud this year. That way, if he does go, they make a profit..

Can't wait for the season to get started as I reckon it's gonna be a cracka although after City have finished spending, there won't be any players left on the market. It's hard not to think of Pep as a good manager but if you just go out and buy the best of everything, he doesn't have a lot to do surely!
Let's be fair here you really didn't want to sell Sterling did you, he just basically went on strike like what some on here are wanting Dick van Dyke to do.

Mind you, you did make bucket loads on him didn't you.

NRS

22,079 posts

200 months

Saturday 29th July 2017
quotequote all
Jacko.1 said:
When we sold Sterling, that proved to me we aim to buy cheap and sell on- that's business but of course it's not what the fans want. I have said it before, Klopp once said the aim is to buy this years star player, not last years that may be a dud this year. That way, if he does go, they make a profit..

Can't wait for the season to get started as I reckon it's gonna be a cracka although after City have finished spending, there won't be any players left on the market. It's hard not to think of Pep as a good manager but if you just go out and buy the best of everything, he doesn't have a lot to do surely!
Man U have been proving that doesn't not work all the time. Even harder now, as you have a lot of clubs throwing huge amounts of money around, plus you have the "lower" clubs that previously had to sell these stars to stay afloat not having to do so because they are also rolling in money now. So to me scouting skills (combined with a manager setting up the team to get the best from players) will be more important at the top clubs than it has been for a while, as it is harder to buy success.

Jacko.1

316 posts

80 months

Saturday 29th July 2017
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With the exception of Leicester (brilliant), personally I think you can still buy success or at least put you near the top of the table. Chelsea did it one several titles, Man City are definatly buying their way up the table.

Personally I think Klopp is a great manager and a great ambassador for LFC, I so want him to succeed and genuinely think he is so good at man management, I just wish he had a bigger better team to prove it

jammy-git

29,776 posts

211 months

Saturday 29th July 2017
quotequote all
RedTrident said:
FSG moneyball is buy cheap and sell high. We will see won't we. I reckon £100 million and Coutinho will be gone.
Since when? We bought Carroll for £35m. We bought Sakho for ~£20m. We bought Lovren for ~£21m. We bought Markovic for £20m!! We bought Lallana for £28m. We bought for Mane for £34m. We bought Salah for £35+m. We bought Benteke for ~£40m.

The ONLY "moneyball" signings I can think of that we've made are Coutinho and Sturridge. I'm not counting Sterling because we paid a decent amount for a player his age (when we bought him).

ferrisbueller

29,260 posts

226 months

Saturday 29th July 2017
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pinchmeimdreamin said:
well I'm watching Leipzig at the minute and He doesn't look like he's worth £75 million to me at the moment.
He's only giving 80% wink

Is he worth 60-ish?!

NRS

22,079 posts

200 months

Saturday 29th July 2017
quotequote all
Clearly Sterling was moneyball, nothing to do with his skills or lack of the important one. I for one terribly miss all those goals he scored us.

Jacko.1 said:
With the exception of Leicester (brilliant), personally I think you can still buy success or at least put you near the top of the table. Chelsea did it one several titles, Man City are definatly buying their way up the table.

Personally I think Klopp is a great manager and a great ambassador for LFC, I so want him to succeed and genuinely think he is so good at man management, I just wish he had a bigger better team to prove it
Certainly putting you near the top, but now there is 6, perhaps Everton makes it 7 completing for the top, most of who throw lots of money around. So most of those clubs trying to buy the title will not manage it as it's impossible for them all to do so.

jammy-git

29,776 posts

211 months

Saturday 29th July 2017
quotequote all
Exactly. And for me, the clubs with the biggest chance of success are those capable of building a team NOT buy the best players. Personally I think Spuds and LFC have the best teams. Utd and City are just buying good players - there's no guarantee they'll all play well together.

SaintsPaul

676 posts

166 months

Saturday 29th July 2017
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Flip Martian said:
stty way to do business. I really don't like it. If that's true how we're behaving now, it stinks. Someone should ask that question in a press conference and see what Klopp says.
Well said that man.
It's bad enough that 99% of players are w@nkers these days. We don't need the clubs going the same way.
As an older fan I hate these Premier league times. Give me the old days. Yes you still had the bigger clubs winning things but teams were more even and players tended to stay around a lot longer. The football was more honest too.

Jacko.1

316 posts

80 months

Saturday 29th July 2017
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SaintsPaul said:
Well said that man.
It's bad enough that 99% of players are w@nkers these days. We don't need the clubs going the same way.
As an older fan I hate these Premier league times. Give me the old days. Yes you still had the bigger clubs winning things but teams were more even and players tended to stay around a lot longer. The football was more honest too.
I know football has always been a business but now it's serious money- £billions, not £millions and the agents are the ones making a killing. Is it fair to say the biggest change is when Sky cam in board and the money went up. Personally I wish they could find a way of limiting the money (which will never happen) as it's not about the football any more, it's all about the business and the football part just happens to be involved in it. Everyone is making so much more from the game and the players don't' have any loyalty any more - they just follow the pay packet but you can't blame them. Can't see the next generation of players following in Terry's and Gerrard's footsteps of playing for the club you love, they just follow the cheque!

NRS

22,079 posts

200 months

Saturday 29th July 2017
quotequote all
Jacko.1 said:
I know football has always been a business but now it's serious money- £billions, not £millions and the agents are the ones making a killing. Is it fair to say the biggest change is when Sky cam in board and the money went up. Personally I wish they could find a way of limiting the money (which will never happen) as it's not about the football any more, it's all about the business and the football part just happens to be involved in it. Everyone is making so much more from the game and the players don't' have any loyalty any more - they just follow the pay packet but you can't blame them. Can't see the next generation of players following in Terry's and Gerrard's footsteps of playing for the club you love, they just follow the cheque!
That's a bit too romantic I think. It certainly was better before, but there has been large amounts of money for years before Sky. Millions was massive then, it's just due to general inflation plus even more inflation for football then it seems like it wasn't that much. Gerrard and Terry were anomalies in their generation anyway - there will always be a few loyal players, but most will move for the money/fame.

NRS

22,079 posts

200 months

Saturday 29th July 2017
quotequote all
SaintsPaul said:
Flip Martian said:
stty way to do business. I really don't like it. If that's true how we're behaving now, it stinks. Someone should ask that question in a press conference and see what Klopp says.
Well said that man.
It's bad enough that 99% of players are w@nkers these days. We don't need the clubs going the same way.
As an older fan I hate these Premier league times. Give me the old days. Yes you still had the bigger clubs winning things but teams were more even and players tended to stay around a lot longer. The football was more honest too.
If it is the case it is very poor. But why does anyone think he is worth the price they are asking? And if anything else it seems like we have bid at or near the asking price anyway!

type-r

13,920 posts

212 months

Saturday 29th July 2017
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Coutinho captain today against Hertha Berlin. A possible carrot?
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