The Official Liverpool FC Thread [Vol 12]

[jammy-git]

Zidane is already one of Real's most successful managers. I'd say he holds a fair amount of power within the club and what he says is very relevant.

[Adam B]

Flip Martian said:

Agreed. I meant the moaning at a perceived lack of signings - which won't be confirmed until after the deadline. But yes, to be honest if we get results I honestly don't care if there are no signings. Although despite the addition of Salah it seems the squad is already being written off as not good enough, despite a positive pre season and 4 points from 2 games, despite not hitting our stride yet.

Not writing them off - if we get PC and AL back we are potent. But I am not getting excited by our fairly decent start as the frailties are there for all to see and were last year. We all knew we needed a top quality commanding CB and a proper DM.

With no more business we will struggle to get top 4, like we did last season.

Others haven't strengthened much but Utd look stronger and look likely to get top 4, at our expense I fear.

If we really have eyes only for VVD that is ridiculous and I will blame Klopp as he should have had 3 targets and told FSG he wanted 50 to get one of them. I don't believe the tin foil hat brigade (of 1) that say FSG wouldn't have given him that.

[Flip Martian]

Adam B said:

Not writing them off - if we get PC and AL back we are potent. But I am not getting excited by our fairly decent start as the frailties are there for all to see and were last year. We all knew we needed a top quality commanding CB and a proper DM.

With no more business we will struggle to get top 4, like we did last season.

Others haven't strengthened much but Utd look stronger and look likely to get top 4, at our expense I fear.

If we really have eyes only for VVD that is ridiculous and I will blame Klopp as he should have had 3 targets and told FSG he wanted 50 to get one of them. I don't believe the tin foil hat brigade (of 1) that say FSG wouldn't have given him that.

Most of that is based on a couple of games. Maybe its my age and following footy since 1971/2 but I don't judge a season, or any of the teams on the first 2 games. You get a better idea after half a dozen; more so after 10. Its probably why newspapers never even used to print league tables for the first few weeks.

I don't understand the comment about VvD - we've said all along we had finished our interest and any noises from the club since about signingshave said similar. Wouldn't surprise me at all if we're not after him at all.

[Flip Martian]

m3sye said:

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/foot...

Maybe that's It?

I wonder if Kia Joorabchian will go down on FSG's list of "agents we don't deal with" along with Sterling's agent. Extraordinarily badly handled. Sounds like FSG were unequivocal all along and he just thought the usual "say you won't play for them again" thing would work, as it has at other clubs for other players. Shameful really.

Be interesting to see what happens if he refuses to play after the window closes - or indeed in the days coming up to it.

[Flip Martian]

RedTrident said:

The season has started and we haven't strengthened in the areas Klopp himself identified. Only Salah is a genuine first 11 player. The other 2 lads are punts who might step up. Those are the facts.

Another fact is we haven't been able to sign a couple of players we were apparently keen to sign. It happens. ESPECIALLY when the club doesn't want to sell (even more so when you make illegal approaches).

RedTrident said:

The time to start complaining was the start of the season, the time to get angry may indeed be after deadline day. Do you honestly think we're still in for anyone?

No it isn't. And if Klopp says they're still active, they're still active. Not wasting energy on speculating negatively so I can have a good whinge. Life is too short. I'll re-evaluate on 1 Sept. You (and others) can carry on griping and moaning. I hope you're a more cheerful sod in real life.

[Adam B]

None of that is based on a couple of games, you mentioned our decent start and pre-season.
My views are based on simple logic, to grossly over-simplify but:
1 Last year we scraped to 4th
2 This year we haven't improved the squad materially
3 for the sake of argument let's say Utd has materially improved (due to Matic and bedding in of players)
4 Utd go up a place or two and overtakes other teams

You miss my point in VVD - we went for him and screwed it up. Where is the plan B or C for a new quality CB? Hopefully something is happening behind the scenes and we pull of a coup, but not much happens in secret these days. As I have said before I will judge in 10 days time but it's not looking good

Edited by Adam B on Tuesday 22 August 10:13

[ras62]

Coutinho and his agent should get smart and withdraw the transfer request. It will make things much easier for all parties moving forward.

[m3sye]

700BHP said:

Mateo Kovacic has 'verbally' agreed to join us.

Hhhhhmmmm...

He is a superb player - would be a brilliant addition to any squad in the prem - bad move for him when he went to Madrid when they have Isco in his position

[Chris Stott]

Best thing Coutinho can do now is release a statement saying he wanted to go to Barca, it didn't work out, and now he's ready to give 100% to us. Then turn out on Sunday and play well.

He can sulk if he likes, but he'll need to get his head round it eventually.

[m3sye]

Old Man Fred said:

I don't think he will be going anywhere. Zidane has recently said he wants 2 players for every position and he identified him as the second in the DM position behind casemeiro.

I like Grujic but he played 45 mins in the U23s on Sunday and looked poor. One maybe for the future is Matty Virtue, he replaced Grujic and scored a couple of goals and looked like he had great awareness of the game

You would not have him as a DM, total waste, could do CM or AM

[phil_cardiff]

Adam B said:

None of that is based on a couple of games, you mentioned our decent start and pre-season.
My views are based on simple logic, to grossly over-simplify but:
1 Last year we scraped to 4th
2 This year we haven't improved the squad materially
3 for the sake of argument let's say Utd has materially improved (due to Matic and bedding in of players)
4 Utd go up a place or two and overtakes other teams

You miss my point in VVD - we went for him and screwed it up. Where is the plan B or C for a new quality CB? Hopefully something is happening behind the scenes and we pull of a coup, but not much happens in secret these days. As I have said before I will judge in 10 days time but it's not looking good

Edited by Adam B on Tuesday 22 August 10:13

I couldn't agree more and posted similar yesterday. I am surprised that this is not the consensus on here as it's not just Utd who have improved.

Let us pray at the shrine of Jim White that there are a few fresh faces in the squad come Sept 1st.

[epom]

Flip sake, did Everton get that Rooney dude on a free ?? How did we miss him

[chrisb92]

Not a Liverpool fan, but I really hate the current trend of players handing in a request and wanting out as soon as a 'big club' comes calling. Liverpool is a big club and Phil has just signed a big contract. If the club decide they want him to stay another year to get a replacement in then he should shut up and play. Not buying his injury for one second.

Player/agent power is too much these days.

Every time a team other than United, Chelsea or City mounts a genuine challenge they get forced into selling their best player the following season and they end up back where they were. It's boring.

[700BHP]

jammy-git said:

Zidane is already one of Real's most successful managers. I'd say he holds a fair amount of power within the club and what he says is very relevant.

So because Zidane tells you to, you waste your career on the bench, when you'd be a certain starter pretty much anywhere else?

[Flip Martian]

Adam B said:

None of that is based on a couple of games, you mentioned our decent start and pre-season.
My views are based on simple logic, to grossly over-simplify but:
1 Last year we scraped to 4th
2 This year we haven't improved the squad materially
3 for the sake of argument let's say Utd has materially improved (due to Matic and bedding in of players)
4 Utd go up a place or two and overtakes other teams

You miss my point in VVD - we went for him and screwed it up. Where is the plan B or C for a new quality CB? Hopefully something is happening behind the scenes and we pull of a coup, but not much happens in secret these days. As I have said before I will judge in 10 days time but it's not looking good

Edited by Adam B on Tuesday 22 August 10:13

1. We did scrape it - after a great first half of the season our lack of depth told when Mane went overseas for a bit and we had injuries. We recovered enough to get 4th - a good season, despite lack of experienced depth.
2. Salah is. And as with your point 3, players will have bedded in a bit.
3. Our equivalent is we bought Salah and bedding in of players (this (as with Utd) is theory - its only 2 games in.
4. Its far too early to say what Utd will do. They've had a good 2 results to start.

Fair point about VvD - I'm surprised if there is no other target but I would much rather buy a sure thing, than a punt. I trust Klopp's judgement over yours, mine and anyone else's here (no offence meant there obv). I just think there's no point in speculating about stuff we have no hard facts about. We don't know - yet some are jumping to negative conclusions so have a whinge.

I'm happy with 4 pts from 2 games. Solid enough start, even if the performances haven't been, yet. I'm not writing these players off, based on a few games at the start of the season.

[jammy-git]

700BHP said:

jammy-git said:

Zidane is already one of Real's most successful managers. I'd say he holds a fair amount of power within the club and what he says is very relevant.

So because Zidane tells you to, you waste your career on the bench, when you'd be a certain starter pretty much anywhere else?

Real and Zidane have to agree to sell him first. He has a contract until 2021!

As for the discussion about other teams strengthening. Utd definitely look better than last year, but then they were very average last year. City look as strong as ever, but again, they did last year and were only good for third. For me, the jury is still out on Chelsea, Spurs and Arsenal.

[Adam B]

Flip Martian said:

I just think there's no point in speculating about stuff we have no hard facts about.

then you've rather missed the raison d'etre of the pub and PH

[m3sye]

jammy-git said:

Real and Zidane have to agree to sell him first. He has a contract until 2021!

As for the discussion about other teams strengthening. Utd definitely look better than last year, but then they were very average last year. City look as strong as ever, but again, they did last year and were only good for third. For me, the jury is still out on Chelsea, Spurs and Arsenal.

This is the thing, if we had added the 2 we wanted this year we really would have been in the mix, if we stay as we are we will fall up short when injuries kick in ...

As for Kovacic, if a decent offer came in for a guy who is benched he would be off (he would want to go, he is hardly ever played)- he would be anything but cheap though, they paid about 25m for him I bet even though he is not playing they would want 40m for him....

[700BHP]

jammy-git said:

700BHP said:

jammy-git said:

Zidane is already one of Real's most successful managers. I'd say he holds a fair amount of power within the club and what he says is very relevant.

So because Zidane tells you to, you waste your career on the bench, when you'd be a certain starter pretty much anywhere else?

Real and Zidane have to agree to sell him first. He has a contract until 2021!

Of course but it's hard to keep a player who isn't even playing for you but would get first team football elsewhere easily.

And Zidane wanting two players in every position has no bearing on it whatsoever. What manager wouldn't want 2 players in every position?

You can't tell any player that he is doomed to spend the the majority of his career on the bench, simply because it's the managers whim!

[Adam B]

Flip Martian said:

1. We did scrape it - after a great first half of the season our lack of depth told when Mane went overseas for a bit and we had injuries. We recovered enough to get 4th - a good season, despite lack of experienced depth.
2. Salah is. And as with your point 3, players will have bedded in a bit.
3. Our equivalent is we bought Salah and bedding in of players (this (as with Utd) is theory - its only 2 games in.
4. Its far too early to say what Utd will do. They've had a good 2 results to start.

We can all agree to disagree on who has improved and by how much, and there will usually be one of the top 7/8 who surprises us, be it over or under-achieving.

Put simply I like some of our signings (Salah, Solanke) and hope Robertson turns into an astute bit of business, I am not writing anything off, but we have strengthened in areas we were already strong in and not (yet) addressed the one key weakness.

If the only squad changes this summer were VvD and Keita in and some minor players loaned out for experience I would have been delighted. Or two alternatives to VvD and Keita of similar quality.

Serious question Flip based on "speculating about stuff we have no hard facts about" :

We keep PC, he plays well, and no other changes to top 6 teams - where would you guess LFC will finish this season?

Edited by Adam B on Tuesday 22 August 11:49