The Official Liverpool FC Thread [Vol 13]

[joshcowin]

m3sye said:

The problem with Klopp is he trusts players to much, and no doubt feels that when he trains them they will improve or stop doing the stupid mistakes. Problem is now they have repeated them time after time, so maybe we might now see either in Jan or the summer some investment in defensive minded players. If as a player you are making the same mistake time after time, simple fact is you are not good enough not too.

Guessing you are saying this in general and not in response to last night!? We make stupid mistakes yes but its not at the point where we need to panic, I think everyone has got carried away lets see how we actually get on say over 10 PL games, yes the city result was shocking and we should have done better but the players lost their heads, I'm withholding judgement until we've played 10 in the league.

Not to keep on but I genuinely think our finishing is a bigger problem.

As I thought defensively the back four wasn't too bad, the rb and lb especially (Flanno needs confidence coming forward).

[Cie]

lemmingjames said:

GTO-3R said:

I nearly fell off my chair due to fainting after reading that. Would you believe it, a Liverpool fan who actually speaks sense

Dont worry, hell be banned soon

[m3sye]

joshcowin said:

Guessing you are saying this in general and not in response to last night!? We make stupid mistakes yes but its not at the point where we need to panic, I think everyone has got carried away lets see how we actually get on say over 10 PL games, yes the city result was shocking and we should have done better but the players lost their heads, I'm withholding judgement until we've played 10 in the league.

Not to keep on but I genuinely think our finishing is a bigger problem.

As I thought defensively the back four wasn't too bad, the rb and lb especially (Flanno needs confidence coming forward).

Flanno will not get near out team again - he is not good enough, that was his only hope and he only got that chance due to clyne being out and Trent and Gomez playing more this year.....

Yes we are missing chances but that is not a worry to me as we will always score goals, the problem is our defensive unit not just defence switch off - they need commanding defenders and a midfielder in the middle to get them organised.

[NRS]

joshcowin said:

Guessing you are saying this in general and not in response to last night!? We make stupid mistakes yes but its not at the point where we need to panic, I think everyone has got carried away lets see how we actually get on say over 10 PL games, yes the city result was shocking and we should have done better but the players lost their heads, I'm withholding judgement until we've played 10 in the league.

Not to keep on but I genuinely think our finishing is a bigger problem.

As I thought defensively the back four wasn't too bad, the rb and lb especially (Flanno needs confidence coming forward).

It's the same problems we have had to a lesser or greater extent since Rodgers. So it is not getting carried away on a few results. And so far it looks like a repeat of Rodgers time generally. Start off scoring lots of goals but have a shocking defence. Teams work out how to defend against us, the goals dry up but with lots of 1/2 chances and possession passing it around. The defence is still shocking, so we start losing a lot more.

Just watch the attacks. We either do a cross to no one (as they do not know automatically what each other is likely to do since they keep being rotated) or they are so compact attacking (generally within the width of the box) and run out of space because other teams know to crowd the box.

Attacking and defending are both issues - both are as important as each other, but when both are not working it is a big problem.

[ras62]

joshcowin said:

ras62]oshcowin said:

For me Hendo really showed the youngsters what it's all about tonight, his work rate all the way to the final whistle was great!

Really? The captain was awful once again. His place and his captaincy are now on the line. He offers no protection to his defenders and his all round game has gone backwards. Hard work is a minimum requirement. Ox was even worse.

Did you watch the game? Your reaction and comments above sound like you didn't!! And I would imagine his captaincy and place are far from ' on the line' who in the squad would you have replace him? I'm genuinely interested to see who you choose!

Yes I did Josh and sadly its a repeat of what I've seen in all the games this season. I am a ST holder so I dont like commenting only on a tv game but this season I've seen a real deterioration in the Captains game.
Hendo's pace is noticeably slower meaning his defensive role has been compromised. He is easy bypassed and then unable to track back. Also remember this role is relatively new to him and imo its a position thats not a natural fit simply because he isn't a strong defensively minded player. His distribution is often far too heavy or a bouncing backpass which causes no end of panick for the defenders.
Once a player is struggling with his own postion in the side, imo means his role as captain must also be questioned. In fact I'd go much further and say he is not a leader on the pitch at all. A replacement? Very simple. His name is James MilneR.

Watch Demari Gray's shot just before the opening goal last night. It is a fine example of one of the problems I am talking about. You see this several times a game. Do you get past Matip or Kante so easily?

Edited by ras62 on Wednesday 20th September 14:43

[m3sye]

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/foot...

[joshcowin]

ras62 said:

Yes I did Josh and sadly its a repeat of what I've seen in all the games this season. I am a ST holder so I dont like commenting only on a tv game but this season I've seen a real deterioration in the Captains game.
Hendo's pace is noticeably slower meaning his defensive role has been compromised. He is easy bypassed and then unable to track back. Also remember this role is relatively new to him and imo its a position thats not a natural fit simply because he isn't a strong defensively minded player. His distribution is often far too heavy or a bouncing backpass which causes no end of panick for the defenders.
Once a player is struggling with his own postion in the side, imo means his role as captain must also be questioned. In fact I'd go much further and say he is not a leader on the pitch at all. A replacement? Very simple. His name is James MilneR.

Watch Demari Gray's shot just before the opening goal last night. It is a fine example of one of the problems I am talking about. You see this several times a game. Do you get past Matip or Kante so easily?

Edited by ras62 on Wednesday 20th September 14:43

I'm envious of you being a ST holder, I am not, not that makes any difference to how players are playing and weather we should be changing captain.

I agree with his passing being poor as of late, however he does track back, up until the final whistle yesterday he was still tracking back and perusing players.

I disagree with Milner being a better captain, but that is complete personal opinion as neither of us are in the dressing room/training ground to know who the players respect and look to for leadership! I often saw Hendo yesterday organising the back line, barking commands at other players genuinely think we do not have anyone better at the moment! May I also add that Milner is currently not in the starting 11 so you saying 'Once a player is struggling with his own postion in the side, imo means his role as captain must also be questioned' would mean he would'nt be captain.

[joshcowin]

m3sye said:

Yes we are missing chances but that is not a worry to me as we will always score goals.

That's not true though is it!!

[ras62]

[quote=joshcowin]


I'm envious of you being a ST holder, I am not, not that makes any difference to how players are playing and weather we should be changing captain.

I agree with his passing being poor as of late, however he does track back, up until the final whistle yesterday he was still tracking back and perusing players.

I disagree with Milner being a better captain, but that is complete personal opinion as neither of us are in the dressing room/training ground to know who the players respect and look to for leadership! I often saw Hendo yesterday organising the back line, barking commands at other players genuinely think we do not have anyone better at the moment! May I also add that Milner is currently not in the starting 11 so you saying 'Once a player is struggling with his own postion in the side, imo means his role as captain must also be questioned' would mean he would'nt be captain.


https://talksport.com/football/jordan-henderson-an...

[m3sye]

joshcowin said:

That's not true though is it!!

We are averaging 2 a game this season, our issue is not goals scored. You will always have some games you dont thats life, our biggest issue is keeping games to 0 when we have those games and only score 1 in 30 chances....

Last season we averaged just over 2 a game too

[joshcowin]

m3sye said:

joshcowin said:

That's not true though is it!!

We are averaging 2 a game this season, our issue is not goals scored. You will always have some games you dont thats life, our biggest issue is keeping games to 0 when we have those games and only score 1 in 30 chances....

Last season we averaged just over 2 a game too

We are at 0 on GD 9 for and 9 against (PL). Last night we should have had 3 in the first half, I know they were the youngsters and PC is coming back from not wanting to play for us. I am just saying our attack need to take their chances and be more clinical especially in the PL.

[m3sye]

joshcowin said:

We are at 0 on GD 9 for and 9 against (PL). Last night we should have had 3 in the first half, I know they were the youngsters and PC is coming back from not wanting to play for us. I am just saying our attack need to take their chances and be more clinical especially in the PL.

Yes so the problem is defending not scoring, we are 3rd highest scorers int he prem, and probably 3rd worst defending

there is some games you wont take your chances, thats football, that is when you need to keep tight at the back, nick 1 goal and win 1-0

[joshcowin]

ras62]oshcowin said:

I'm envious of you being a ST holder, I am not, not that makes any difference to how players are playing and weather we should be changing captain.

I agree with his passing being poor as of late, however he does track back, up until the final whistle yesterday he was still tracking back and perusing players.

I disagree with Milner being a better captain, but that is complete personal opinion as neither of us are in the dressing room/training ground to know who the players respect and look to for leadership! I often saw Hendo yesterday organising the back line, barking commands at other players genuinely think we do not have anyone better at the moment! May I also add that Milner is currently not in the starting 11 so you saying 'Once a player is struggling with his own postion in the side, imo means his role as captain must also be questioned' would mean he would'nt be captain.


https://talksport.com/football/jordan-henderson-an...

Sorry but what is the link meant to do, is that exactly how you feel? Didn't listen to it all as he started talking about Moreno and I'm bored of people moaning about him. I can say that I saw Hendo busting his gut yesterday to provide cover for the defence. Who would you choose in that position to provide cover, over Can and Hendo?

Does he also feel Milner would be a better captain? Would you put Milner back at LB or move him central?

[joshcowin]

m3sye said:

Yes so the problem is defending not scoring, we are 3rd highest scorers int he prem, and probably 3rd worst defending

there is some games you wont take your chances, thats football, that is when you need to keep tight at the back, nick 1 goal and win 1-0

There are 5 teams with the same goals against or more.

What I am saying is that we don't look like we are going to 'nick that 1 goal' 50%+ of the time we cant even get a decent shot on target! We have such great attacking options its so frustrating.

I think we agree that both defence and attack need sorting out, I am not worried on the whole.

[ras62]

joshcowin said:

Sorry but what is the link meant to do, is that exactly how you feel? Didn't listen to it all as he started talking about Moreno and I'm bored of people moaning about him. I can say that I saw Hendo busting his gut yesterday to provide cover for the defence. Who would you choose in that position to provide cover, over Can and Hendo?

Does he also feel Milner would be a better captain? Would you put Milner back at LB or move him central?

The link highlights what I was saying about defensive cover and the type of player best suited to the role
.
It has been obvious for some time that midfield defensive cover has been lacking. We dont have a made to measure defensive mid, my God Gerrard stunk in that role. Hendo at peak fitness barely managed as we saw last year but he is not at peak fitness now. His running is laboured and its obviously playing on his mind as his whole game is off. Emre Can has been used there but he is still very much a work in progress (if he stays) which leaves Milner as the obvious choice. Senior pro at the club and held in highest esteem.

I hope Im wrong but Hendo's injury and painfully slow recovery may mean his best days are already behind him.

[Adam B]

joshcowin said:

I agree with his passing being poor as of late, however he does track back, up until the final whistle yesterday he was still tracking back and perusing players.

I'd rather he tackled them than examined them in a thoughtful way

[joshcowin]

Adam B said:

joshcowin said:

I agree with his passing being poor as of late, however he does track back, up until the final whistle yesterday he was still tracking back and perusing players.

I'd rather he tackled them than examined them in a thoughtful way

Haha!! Well spotted!

[joshcowin]

ras62 said:

The link highlights what I was saying about defensive cover and the type of player best suited to the role
.
It has been obvious for some time that midfield defensive cover has been lacking. We dont have a made to measure defensive mid, my God Gerrard stunk in that role. Hendo at peak fitness barely managed as we saw last year but he is not at peak fitness now. His running is laboured and its obviously playing on his mind as his whole game is off. Emre Can has been used there but he is still very much a work in progress (if he stays) which leaves Milner as the obvious choice. Senior pro at the club and held in highest esteem.

I hope Im wrong but Hendo's injury and painfully slow recovery may mean his best days are already behind him.

Has Milner played that role before? It would be great if he was chucked in there and smashed it but I doubt he would, I'm guessing Klopp has explored this angle in training?

As for being a pro and respected, could'nt agree more I thought he was our most consistent defender last year, very pleased for him to play more!

[Alex Langheck]

It's like Groundhog day; all the same issues repeated. If only we'd had a transfer window to rectify these issues......

Nearly all the great sides have been built on a sound defence; and until we see that, then I'm not sure we'll see proper sustained progress.

[Flip Martian]

Adam B said:

joshcowin said:

I agree with his passing being poor as of late, however he does track back, up until the final whistle yesterday he was still tracking back and perusing players.

I'd rather he tackled them than examined them in a thoughtful way