The Official Liverpool FC Thread [Vol 13]
Discussion
m3sye said:
Guessing that "When Alberto Moreno is your best and most consistent defender, something isn’t right…" wasn't actually said by Couts too lol.Klopp came out the other week and identified publicly they were conceding too many from wide areas and "we can't keep making the same mistakes". Clearly its being worked on and clearly yet again, the players can't put into practice his instructions. Footballers don't have to be intelligent - they often aren't - but at the top level, they do have the ability to interpret instructions and act on them.
Our lot seem to fail, time and time again.
I'd like to see us try a back 4 of Milner (until Clyne is fit) Matip, Gomez and one of Moreno/Robinson. I'd also like to see this back 4 play a lot deeper and push up rather than play high and try to cover. This would negate some of our attacking strength though we might be better on the counter.
Flip Martian said:
Guessing that "When Alberto Moreno is your best and most consistent defender, something isn’t right…" wasn't actually said by Couts too lol.
Klopp came out the other week and identified publicly they were conceding too many from wide areas and "we can't keep making the same mistakes". Clearly its being worked on and clearly yet again, the players can't put into practice his instructions. Footballers don't have to be intelligent - they often aren't - but at the top level, they do have the ability to interpret instructions and act on them.
Our lot seem to fail, time and time again.
The difference between top top players a lot of time is not just ability its making the right decisions at the right time - we have to many players that switch off far too often - you see Lovren against UTD , gave Lukaku 0 sniff all day, he was pumped you could see the difference, against Spurs polar opposite - same goes for a number of players making wrong choices too often in games - this is what makes the top players stand out Klopp came out the other week and identified publicly they were conceding too many from wide areas and "we can't keep making the same mistakes". Clearly its being worked on and clearly yet again, the players can't put into practice his instructions. Footballers don't have to be intelligent - they often aren't - but at the top level, they do have the ability to interpret instructions and act on them.
Our lot seem to fail, time and time again.
Klopp will surely be learning more and more about certain players month after month, he trusts them as he feels they have the ability , most probably do when 100% switched on , problem is they are not 100% switched on enough and thats the difference between them and someone better.
jammy-git said:
I can only imagine that either
- the instructions are wrong and just aren't helping
- the instructions are too complicated
- the instructions are contradictory
But it does seem like even simple stuff is being ignored - like Gomez playing Kane onside for the first goal!
- the instructions are wrong and just aren't helping
- the instructions are too complicated
- the instructions are contradictory
But it does seem like even simple stuff is being ignored - like Gomez playing Kane onside for the first goal!
You missed two
I can only imagine that either
- the instructions are wrong and just aren't helping
- the instructions are too complicated
- the instructions are contradictory
- Players dont listen
- Players have an attention span as long as a 2 year old child
Fair enough, it could be the players, but these mistakes are happening from lots of different players - Skrtel, Klavan, Lovren, Matip, Sakho, Gomez, Moreno. It's a long, long list. There's only one common denominator across that lot and that's the coaching staff.
There's only one player who isn't making many mistakes (Milner) and he spent 90% of his career being coached at other clubs!
There's only one player who isn't making many mistakes (Milner) and he spent 90% of his career being coached at other clubs!
In relation to the last two posts - one thing that is constantly mentioned is that we lack leaders.
We don't seem to have an organiser in our back 5. The best defences have a mouthy b
d shouting the odds constantly. John Terry has barely been able to run for 5 years but he has those around him stood in the right place and ready to do the right thing.
A team with Schmeichel (P) in goal wouldn't have conceded the third.
We also like the match cynicism of the best teams - someone mentioned about standing in front of free kicks and generally breaking up play. Lucas was our only player who did that.
So two players and we will be champions next year.
(I may not have meant that bit)
We don't seem to have an organiser in our back 5. The best defences have a mouthy b
d shouting the odds constantly. John Terry has barely been able to run for 5 years but he has those around him stood in the right place and ready to do the right thing.A team with Schmeichel (P) in goal wouldn't have conceded the third.
We also like the match cynicism of the best teams - someone mentioned about standing in front of free kicks and generally breaking up play. Lucas was our only player who did that.
So two players and we will be champions next year.
(I may not have meant that bit)
Is this the first week since the start of the season where we have a full week of training?
I will also address that our attack are not taking the chances like they should, the midfield are not providing cover and this heaps further pressure on the weak/inexperienced defence. Matip is the only player there who has enough experience/quality to deal with situations.
Should PC be playing in the middle of the park? I think bringing him in will aid the quality of the through balls, dropping Wijnalden or Can and using OX for his pace or Milner for his energy will change it up.
I will also address that our attack are not taking the chances like they should, the midfield are not providing cover and this heaps further pressure on the weak/inexperienced defence. Matip is the only player there who has enough experience/quality to deal with situations.
Should PC be playing in the middle of the park? I think bringing him in will aid the quality of the through balls, dropping Wijnalden or Can and using OX for his pace or Milner for his energy will change it up.
I do feel our midfield lacks quality as much as our defence, at least when we don't have the ball anyway - at least we have Naby Keita coming in next year which will hopefully address that, but when we're under pressure I don't feel like Henderson has what it takes to help us out of trouble.
I do agree we lack at least 1/2 leaders - Milner is very much one but hardly plays so can you really count him
Matip has the ability to be a top CB but is a bit to wet, he is 6ft 5 but goes into headers like he is 5ft 5 he is also nowhere near vocal enough, if you think back to Hypia same type of player for me, he had far more leadership skills, and was a lot braver without the ball... I think if we play Gomez next to him we could ruin Gomez, he will need guidance, I dont see him as being that one....
We also need someone in the middle of the park who is not scared to put a tackle in, and get people told.....
Then comes the keeper, Migs nor Karius are not the one to boss people around - they are both to soft for that - I know people call out Ward but I have not seen enough to confidently say he is the answer - shame we went out the league cup so quick would liked to have seen more of him ( I would use him in the fa cup)
Matip has the ability to be a top CB but is a bit to wet, he is 6ft 5 but goes into headers like he is 5ft 5 he is also nowhere near vocal enough, if you think back to Hypia same type of player for me, he had far more leadership skills, and was a lot braver without the ball... I think if we play Gomez next to him we could ruin Gomez, he will need guidance, I dont see him as being that one....
We also need someone in the middle of the park who is not scared to put a tackle in, and get people told.....
Then comes the keeper, Migs nor Karius are not the one to boss people around - they are both to soft for that - I know people call out Ward but I have not seen enough to confidently say he is the answer - shame we went out the league cup so quick would liked to have seen more of him ( I would use him in the fa cup)
jammy-git said:
I don't feel like Henderson has what it takes to help us out of trouble.
Been saying this for the last 5 years!! Feels like deja vu but we need a leader in the middle, someone that can direct play, players look up to, can grab a game by the scruff of the neck. Ironically, we DO have someone like that.... just a shame that he is sits in the coach dugout and not on the pitch. m3sye said:
I do agree we lack at least 1/2 leaders - Milner is very much one but hardly plays so can you really count him
Matip has the ability to be a top CB but is a bit to wet, he is 6ft 5 but goes into headers like he is 5ft 5 he is also nowhere near vocal enough, if you think back to Hypia same type of player for me, he had far more leadership skills, and was a lot braver without the ball... I think if we play Gomez next to him we could ruin Gomez, he will need guidance, I dont see him as being that one....
We also need someone in the middle of the park who is not scared to put a tackle in, and get people told.....
Then comes the keeper, Migs nor Karius are not the one to boss people around - they are both to soft for that - I know people call out Ward but I have not seen enough to confidently say he is the answer - shame we went out the league cup so quick would liked to have seen more of him ( I would use him in the fa cup)
Completely agree with this, especially ruining Gomez by playing him next to someone he won't learn from.Matip has the ability to be a top CB but is a bit to wet, he is 6ft 5 but goes into headers like he is 5ft 5 he is also nowhere near vocal enough, if you think back to Hypia same type of player for me, he had far more leadership skills, and was a lot braver without the ball... I think if we play Gomez next to him we could ruin Gomez, he will need guidance, I dont see him as being that one....
We also need someone in the middle of the park who is not scared to put a tackle in, and get people told.....
Then comes the keeper, Migs nor Karius are not the one to boss people around - they are both to soft for that - I know people call out Ward but I have not seen enough to confidently say he is the answer - shame we went out the league cup so quick would liked to have seen more of him ( I would use him in the fa cup)
Milner would be my choice over Henderson tbh. Seems more committed, gets stuck in more and just as slow/quick to the ball as Henders.
As for a leader in the middle of the likes of Gerrard, I'd be amazed if we see a leader in the middle like him again in my lifetime. Players like him and Terry had that extra edge because of their connection to the club and community. If you look at the other top six sides, I can't see any players that you could say take the game by the scruff of the neck and pull their team through to a win.
jammy-git said:
Completely agree with this, especially ruining Gomez by playing him next to someone he won't learn from.
Milner would be my choice over Henderson tbh. Seems more committed, gets stuck in more and just as slow/quick to the ball as Henders.
As for a leader in the middle of the likes of Gerrard, I'd be amazed if we see a leader in the middle like him again in my lifetime. Players like him and Terry had that extra edge because of their connection to the club and community. If you look at the other top six sides, I can't see any players that you could say take the game by the scruff of the neck and pull their team through to a win.
Milner was none existent at the weekend, its ok pulling the strings against Maribor and getting lots of praise but if you then get slung in against a good team you need to perform - Milner would be my choice over Henderson tbh. Seems more committed, gets stuck in more and just as slow/quick to the ball as Henders.
As for a leader in the middle of the likes of Gerrard, I'd be amazed if we see a leader in the middle like him again in my lifetime. Players like him and Terry had that extra edge because of their connection to the club and community. If you look at the other top six sides, I can't see any players that you could say take the game by the scruff of the neck and pull their team through to a win.
The problem is, when you play both Milner and Henderson in midfield, they're both trying to do the same job, so it doesn't work. Though I'm not sure why Klopp put Can to RB instead of Milner.
I'd have Milner in Henderson's role, Coutinho at the top of the three and Can or Wijnaldum "protecting" the back four.
I'd have Milner in Henderson's role, Coutinho at the top of the three and Can or Wijnaldum "protecting" the back four.
Liverpool have become a 'roll the dice' team. There's absolutely no consistency or predictability about them. The only predictable aspect to the team is that they are entirely unpredictable from one game to the other and nobody can succeed like that.
Who expected 7 against Maribor - nobody.
Many thought we would get trounced by Man U but didn't.
That gave a bit of confidence for the Spurs game - meaningless confidence.
The sum of the parts will sometimes exceed the whole - but they never add up to the same whole.
Top teams are not as inconsisten or unpredictable - and nor are Burnley (and teams like them).
People say Klopp doesn't want to spend money for 'the sake of it' but it wouldn't be for the sake of it - it would be to stop conceding goals. Klopp (if he genuinely has money and is the decision maker) might well have the desire to recruit only 'the best.. But Liverpool don't need 'the best' at the moment. They should settle for better. Looking at the goals against column in the Premier League - better would not be hard to achieve. Don't keep saying you'll only settle for the best when the best wouldn't look twice at you. Take people who are better. Buy Burnley's defence. Buy anyone's defence but do something. There is nothing that can be done with these players that will transform them into a defence comparable to Burnley's (why not?) so we have to come to terms with relative failure.
And in January if Klopp buys a talisman, one great player, what will happen? We will put him in with our existing lot and we will break him. We will transform him from a success to a failure. From gold to dust.
We need to go back to basics. What is the worst that can happen in every game? We lose. Well, we're already doing that. So, we need to accept that we're already achieving the worst that can happen (outside of relegation). Whatever we do, it can only be as bad as or better. Doing nothing or doing the same we will continue to be as bad as. Do something and we at least have hope. We may be as bad as, but we might also be better.
Aiming to buy the best at the moment is just jive talk. Do they think the fans really believe that nonsense? We can't afford the best and the best want to play with the best. Let's be real. Realistically, just buy better. Not the best, just better. No excuses. Don't kid us you're passing up on 'merely' better players just so that you can get the best - that's pub talk.
Who expected 7 against Maribor - nobody.
Many thought we would get trounced by Man U but didn't.
That gave a bit of confidence for the Spurs game - meaningless confidence.
The sum of the parts will sometimes exceed the whole - but they never add up to the same whole.
Top teams are not as inconsisten or unpredictable - and nor are Burnley (and teams like them).
People say Klopp doesn't want to spend money for 'the sake of it' but it wouldn't be for the sake of it - it would be to stop conceding goals. Klopp (if he genuinely has money and is the decision maker) might well have the desire to recruit only 'the best.. But Liverpool don't need 'the best' at the moment. They should settle for better. Looking at the goals against column in the Premier League - better would not be hard to achieve. Don't keep saying you'll only settle for the best when the best wouldn't look twice at you. Take people who are better. Buy Burnley's defence. Buy anyone's defence but do something. There is nothing that can be done with these players that will transform them into a defence comparable to Burnley's (why not?) so we have to come to terms with relative failure.
And in January if Klopp buys a talisman, one great player, what will happen? We will put him in with our existing lot and we will break him. We will transform him from a success to a failure. From gold to dust.
We need to go back to basics. What is the worst that can happen in every game? We lose. Well, we're already doing that. So, we need to accept that we're already achieving the worst that can happen (outside of relegation). Whatever we do, it can only be as bad as or better. Doing nothing or doing the same we will continue to be as bad as. Do something and we at least have hope. We may be as bad as, but we might also be better.
Aiming to buy the best at the moment is just jive talk. Do they think the fans really believe that nonsense? We can't afford the best and the best want to play with the best. Let's be real. Realistically, just buy better. Not the best, just better. No excuses. Don't kid us you're passing up on 'merely' better players just so that you can get the best - that's pub talk.
type-r said:
Been saying this for the last 5 years!! Feels like deja vu but we need a leader in the middle, someone that can direct play, players look up to, can grab a game by the scruff of the neck. Ironically, we DO have someone like that.... just a shame that he is sits in the coach dugout and not on the pitch.
I've always wondered quite how Henderson ended up as a cover star on Fifa?!
He must have some friends high up at EA Sports!!
footnote said:
People say Klopp doesn't want to spend money for 'the sake of it' but it wouldn't be for the sake of it - it would be to stop conceding goals. Klopp (if he genuinely has money and is the decision maker) might well have the desire to recruit only 'the best.. But Liverpool don't need 'the best' at the moment. They should settle for better. Looking at the goals against column in the Premier League - better would not be hard to achieve. Don't keep saying you'll only settle for the best when the best wouldn't look twice at you. Take people who are better. Buy Burnley's defence. Buy anyone's defence but do something. There is nothing that can be done with these players that will transform them into a defence comparable to Burnley's (why not?) so we have to come to terms with relative failure.
You don't seem to know the difference between buying good players and players looking good because they play in a system.Both we and Utd have been fooled by Southampton in the past because the system they played was ultra-organised and flattered most who played in it. Take any of those players out of that system and suddenly like look a little more average (Lovren, Shaw, Schneiderlin, dare I saw Clyne too).
The same could easily happen if we just buy better. Unless you buy exceptionally better, there is every chance that in our chaotic system that 'only slightly better' player looks like Lovren 2.0.
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