S2/S3: Looking to buy - thoughts & opinions welcome
Discussion
Afternoon All,
Thought it worth hopping on here to say Hello, and get some thoughts and advice for current S -series owners. Have got a couple of cars in my stable already (911 Turbo / MG Midget 1500) - both of which do for me exactly what I want them too do. The Porsche is a track / euro trip car, the Midget 1500 is a restoration I carried out a number of years back, with a few period mods, that brings a smile to my face every time I drive it. And that's where the TVR S2/S3/V8s comes in.
I love my 911 (and Porsche), but to get any kind of real 'involvement' I have to be driving at licence losing speeds, or I'm eating through consumables on the track (which is fun but costly). The other point is, my Midget now requires very little work, and getting my hands dirty is always part of the appeal. Again, I do work on the Porsche, but there is only so much I want to do given the complexity / value of it.
Therefore I'm after something quick & raw that I can work on myself, that sounds amazing, that you have to drive to get the most from it. My Dad had a lovely 4.0 Chimera when I was younger.. it was the first car I drove with any substance, and I always vowed I'd get a TVR at some point... but I was never sure which it would be and when. Nearly bought a Sagaris... but decided with a lack of talent I'd be better off with the 911.
After spending the last couple of years watching classic TVR's race at Oulton Park / Silverstone I was always really impressed - if money was no object I'd be purchasing a Vixen - unfortunately, it is! Which leads me on to the S2 / S3. From what I can tell, you get all the benefits of a classic (no aids / no help / 'basic' mechanicals) with a useable amount of power and sharp handling. However, having never driven one, I'm purely going by what I've read!
Have also had a good chat with 'Longers' who I believe in on here, who has only convinced me further. Thanks mate
What I'd really appreciate is some views on what drew you in a S series car in the first place?
How are they to drive?
How are they to work on?
S2/3 or V8s? (personally think I'd rather the 2.9 V6)
What are the big things to look for - aside from the Outriggers of course.
Thought it worth hopping on here to say Hello, and get some thoughts and advice for current S -series owners. Have got a couple of cars in my stable already (911 Turbo / MG Midget 1500) - both of which do for me exactly what I want them too do. The Porsche is a track / euro trip car, the Midget 1500 is a restoration I carried out a number of years back, with a few period mods, that brings a smile to my face every time I drive it. And that's where the TVR S2/S3/V8s comes in.
I love my 911 (and Porsche), but to get any kind of real 'involvement' I have to be driving at licence losing speeds, or I'm eating through consumables on the track (which is fun but costly). The other point is, my Midget now requires very little work, and getting my hands dirty is always part of the appeal. Again, I do work on the Porsche, but there is only so much I want to do given the complexity / value of it.
Therefore I'm after something quick & raw that I can work on myself, that sounds amazing, that you have to drive to get the most from it. My Dad had a lovely 4.0 Chimera when I was younger.. it was the first car I drove with any substance, and I always vowed I'd get a TVR at some point... but I was never sure which it would be and when. Nearly bought a Sagaris... but decided with a lack of talent I'd be better off with the 911.
After spending the last couple of years watching classic TVR's race at Oulton Park / Silverstone I was always really impressed - if money was no object I'd be purchasing a Vixen - unfortunately, it is! Which leads me on to the S2 / S3. From what I can tell, you get all the benefits of a classic (no aids / no help / 'basic' mechanicals) with a useable amount of power and sharp handling. However, having never driven one, I'm purely going by what I've read!
Have also had a good chat with 'Longers' who I believe in on here, who has only convinced me further. Thanks mate
What I'd really appreciate is some views on what drew you in a S series car in the first place?
How are they to drive?
How are they to work on?
S2/3 or V8s? (personally think I'd rather the 2.9 V6)
What are the big things to look for - aside from the Outriggers of course.
Most of the later TVR models are faster in a straight line, and their twin wishbone suspension is superior, and they have better brakes and stronger transmission. But in my opinion the S is a more chuckable car and the performance it has is more accessible. On track, the S series cars tend to do far better than you'd expect against the later models and I suspect this is why. The V6 S is a nicely balanced car that gets better and better through the versions. I'm biassed, but I do think the extra torque of the V8S suits the character of the car and I would always recommend holding out for the V8S if you can find one. Not that I would turn my nose up at any of the later model RV8 powered TVRs if one found its way to my garage - they're all good driver's cars with plenty of character.
....S's are easy to work on... unless its the dash!
They are excellent to drive (as above)...v. chuckable
You will be attracted by the handling, the classic looks and definately the noise.
BTW...S's are a better car for a Euopean tour (very comfortable)...
...mind you, some times even MG midgets come too...
...sometimes even the odd 911...in disguise...
...there may be the odd TVR for sale too...
http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C895123
They are excellent to drive (as above)...v. chuckable
You will be attracted by the handling, the classic looks and definately the noise.
BTW...S's are a better car for a Euopean tour (very comfortable)...
...mind you, some times even MG midgets come too...
...sometimes even the odd 911...in disguise...
...there may be the odd TVR for sale too...
http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C895123
The real time available to actually enjoy the sensation if speed declines as speed increases.
The S is a perfect balance of speed and the sensation of it and the time to enjoy it. IMHO
They have enormous character. I think you'll really enjoy one.
Drive both if you can as there is a difference between the V6 and the V8. Max has owned both so can comment here.
Aim for an S4 - best looking bonnet - although I'm biased !
Happy hunting.
The S is a perfect balance of speed and the sensation of it and the time to enjoy it. IMHO
They have enormous character. I think you'll really enjoy one.
Drive both if you can as there is a difference between the V6 and the V8. Max has owned both so can comment here.
Aim for an S4 - best looking bonnet - although I'm biased !
Happy hunting.
V6 is a good thrash and in the right hands will keep up with a v8 in the twisties. V8 has that straight line grunt - feels a bit more GT / long distance cruiser. I enjoyed both - the S2 and V8. I had to change from an S2 however, as i really struggled with the shorter doors. An s3 or s4 is better if you want a v6 and are very tall. Id have both a v6 and v8 if i could afford it - some on here have both still!!!
Jamesyg81 said:
Have also had a good chat with 'Longers' who I believe in on here, who has only convinced me further. Thanks mate
James started off thinking about a V8S but I said don't ignore the V6, based largely on what others have shared about how differently they drive.
When one of his emails mentioned oily bits I pointed him in this direction - those of you who know me will understand my level of technical (in)competence...!
C'mon guys, gives James the benefit of your experience.
AutoAndy said:
Sorry to hear that AndyJamesyg81 said:
What I'd really appreciate is some views on what drew you in a S series car in the first place?
How are they to drive?
How are they to work on?
S2/3 or V8s? (personally think I'd rather the 2.9 V6)
What are the big things to look for - aside from the Outriggers of course.
I wanted a sensible, practical, reliable car that I could do pretty much anything with.How are they to drive?
How are they to work on?
S2/3 or V8s? (personally think I'd rather the 2.9 V6)
What are the big things to look for - aside from the Outriggers of course.
Like a kart but slightly less hard work
Mostly not too bad, things like access to the engine can be a pain in the arse as it's so deeply buried but it's not actually that big a job to take the whole car apart. Generally things don't really go wrong so it doesn't actually need much work.
Dunno, I've never driven a v6 one, I expect they are actually more fun in many respects. I wanted a V8 TVR and the S fitted the sensible, practical, reliable requirements better than a wedge or griff/chim.
Rusty outriggers is about it really, they're quite simple cars and many of the bits they're made of aren't especially expensive or difficult to obtain.
S3 / S4 for the 2.9 V6
V8S.
The S3 variants are good starting point. A fair few for sale at the moment too.
As with any TVR - Chassis, chassis, chassis, rear trailing arms and then the rest of the car.
Everything is fixable and pretty easy for the home mechanic.
S4 and 'later' V8S have some [factory] chassis mods and a wider track to better deal with the torque of the V8. They didn't bother having a separate spec for the S4 chassis. Another bonus of the S4 and V8S is that they came with rear discs from the factory.
Electrics can be eclectic and aging but all repairable.
'Open Wide' bonnet mods is worthwhile to do.
Brake servos are a weak point and discontinued. Various alternative replacements have been used and documented on here.
S4 bonnet is my favourite but no longer available - although Blackcats are in the process of making some molds if I understand correctly.
Fun cars to tour in and track. Steering can be heavy at parking speeds but fine on the move.
Exhaust is very low in all models and can get easily destroyed grounding out and on speed humps.
I'd recommend getting a Surrey Roof - although they need a couple of simple mods (threads on here) to make them fit 'better'. Still a great non performance mod that is well worth the money (imho).
Steve Heath Bible worth getting to - along with a couple of Haynes manuals listed in the book.
V8S.
The S3 variants are good starting point. A fair few for sale at the moment too.
As with any TVR - Chassis, chassis, chassis, rear trailing arms and then the rest of the car.
Everything is fixable and pretty easy for the home mechanic.
S4 and 'later' V8S have some [factory] chassis mods and a wider track to better deal with the torque of the V8. They didn't bother having a separate spec for the S4 chassis. Another bonus of the S4 and V8S is that they came with rear discs from the factory.
Electrics can be eclectic and aging but all repairable.
'Open Wide' bonnet mods is worthwhile to do.
Brake servos are a weak point and discontinued. Various alternative replacements have been used and documented on here.
S4 bonnet is my favourite but no longer available - although Blackcats are in the process of making some molds if I understand correctly.
Fun cars to tour in and track. Steering can be heavy at parking speeds but fine on the move.
Exhaust is very low in all models and can get easily destroyed grounding out and on speed humps.
I'd recommend getting a Surrey Roof - although they need a couple of simple mods (threads on here) to make them fit 'better'. Still a great non performance mod that is well worth the money (imho).
Steve Heath Bible worth getting to - along with a couple of Haynes manuals listed in the book.
V6 or V8 could depend a lot on your budget 
If you don't mind getting your hands dirty a rough but useable V6 can still be had for not a lot (personally I would avoid the early 2.8 engine) whereas I reckon you'd be lucky to find a V8 below £10k these days?
If you're planning on doing many miles in it (Longers Monaco trip next year?) a V6 should return around 27/28 mpg, mine did over 1500 miles up to and around Scotland last week, suspect a V8 would have gobbled up a bit more?
Then there's the looks, personally I don't think that "lump" on the V8 bonnet is the most elegant of things
If you don't mind getting your hands dirty a rough but useable V6 can still be had for not a lot (personally I would avoid the early 2.8 engine) whereas I reckon you'd be lucky to find a V8 below £10k these days?
If you're planning on doing many miles in it (Longers Monaco trip next year?) a V6 should return around 27/28 mpg, mine did over 1500 miles up to and around Scotland last week, suspect a V8 would have gobbled up a bit more?
Then there's the looks, personally I don't think that "lump" on the V8 bonnet is the most elegant of things
Deeman said:
V6 is a good thrash and in the right hands will keep up with a v8 in the twisties.
you just have to pedal a bit faster Edited by phillpot on Tuesday 12th September 15:18
All -really appreciate the responses here! From what I'm reading - a V6 is probably right for me after all, I don't really want a GT cruiser, but a fun, chuckable car that give me the same ear to ear grin my Midget gives me.
Pretty clear that an S2 / S3 is the right choice, and seems I have to take a good look at the following
Outriggers / Chassis
Brake Servo
Electrics
All the other usual stuff!
Pretty clear that I have to be quite careful on my choice of car - the following is for sale down the road from me, but as Longers has suggested to me, it looks like a mix of an S1/S2. Called the garage, who in all honesty had no idea on any of the finer details, which always worries me! Know what your selling.. right?
Graham stated it had been a barn car, they've had it a few months, but had little interest. Funny thing is, a found a pic of it at Weston Park car show from 2015 just by putting the reg into Google.. funny looking barn
He's willing to put the car on the ramps for me, and talks about it being immaculate (aside from the bits that aren't).
https://www.grahamwalkerltd.co.uk/tvr-290-s-2.9-ra...
If anyone knows this car I'd appreciate it. Despite the salesman rubbish, I wont judge a car until I've seen it / smelt it / driven it
Pretty clear that an S2 / S3 is the right choice, and seems I have to take a good look at the following
Outriggers / Chassis
Brake Servo
Electrics
All the other usual stuff!
Pretty clear that I have to be quite careful on my choice of car - the following is for sale down the road from me, but as Longers has suggested to me, it looks like a mix of an S1/S2. Called the garage, who in all honesty had no idea on any of the finer details, which always worries me! Know what your selling.. right?
Graham stated it had been a barn car, they've had it a few months, but had little interest. Funny thing is, a found a pic of it at Weston Park car show from 2015 just by putting the reg into Google.. funny looking barn
He's willing to put the car on the ramps for me, and talks about it being immaculate (aside from the bits that aren't).
https://www.grahamwalkerltd.co.uk/tvr-290-s-2.9-ra...
If anyone knows this car I'd appreciate it. Despite the salesman rubbish, I wont judge a car until I've seen it / smelt it / driven it
AutoAndy said:
Looks like a very mechanically sound car! Shame you're so far away from me! Although... Shropshire is miles away from anywhere! Jamesyg81 said:
AutoAndy said:
Looks like a very mechanically sound car! Shame you're so far away from me! Although... Shropshire is miles away from anywhere! Still always fun to do a long trip in an S
phillpot said:
There is unofficially an S1.5, basically a mish mash of whatever they had to use up as changing from the 1 to the 2!
For that sort of money I'd want receipts and photo's of a thorough chassis refurb while it was in the barn
Exactly! Will take a look at it - but I think its c. £2k over priced. Any views on how it should be priced?For that sort of money I'd want receipts and photo's of a thorough chassis refurb while it was in the barn
Thanks,
James
phillpot said:
Then there's the looks, personally I think that "lump" on the V8 bonnet is most elegant
I agree with you mike - looks better finsihed all round more curvy, lines from wings flow into bonnet better. Whilst the lump is irrelevant, its adds a bitnof menace. Good choice - junk the V6 bonnet and replace it with a V8 one - others have!I've owned both V6 and now a V8.
They drive differently for sure as Pete (Deeman) described earlier, and like Pete, if I had space and money I would have loved to have kept my S3 alongside my V8.
I found the V6 "racier" because you're working the engine and gearbox more so feel more engaged which it can take and yes you can easily keep up with V8's in the twisty bits which is great fun. There is less torque/power which comes to play when you hit the straight bits.
However, having just completed the latest EuroTour of Scotland, I have really "connected" with my V8S this time - chucking it round the corners and exploiting that extra torque; and felt it was as racy and felt much quicker than I did in the S3 probably due to the long sweeping bends we encountered.
The V8S also feels smoother than my old S3 and I put that down to the slightly wider track and chassis strengthening, which us why I would describe it as a GT / tourer.
Either way you will have great engaging fun in either and budget/availability will be your drivers (pardon the pun).
And as also stated above chassis, chassis, chassis are your key words when buying.
The home spannering is lost on me so can't contribute to the technical side of things.
Also go for an S3 or later if you're tall due to the longer doors.
Hope that helps a little.
Good luck and see you on next year's EuroTour to the Monaco Classic.
Max
They drive differently for sure as Pete (Deeman) described earlier, and like Pete, if I had space and money I would have loved to have kept my S3 alongside my V8.
I found the V6 "racier" because you're working the engine and gearbox more so feel more engaged which it can take and yes you can easily keep up with V8's in the twisty bits which is great fun. There is less torque/power which comes to play when you hit the straight bits.
However, having just completed the latest EuroTour of Scotland, I have really "connected" with my V8S this time - chucking it round the corners and exploiting that extra torque; and felt it was as racy and felt much quicker than I did in the S3 probably due to the long sweeping bends we encountered.
The V8S also feels smoother than my old S3 and I put that down to the slightly wider track and chassis strengthening, which us why I would describe it as a GT / tourer.
Either way you will have great engaging fun in either and budget/availability will be your drivers (pardon the pun).
And as also stated above chassis, chassis, chassis are your key words when buying.
The home spannering is lost on me so can't contribute to the technical side of things.
Also go for an S3 or later if you're tall due to the longer doors.
Hope that helps a little.
Good luck and see you on next year's EuroTour to the Monaco Classic.
Max
I'm planning to create an in-depth 'buyers guide' for the S, which I'll post to the Southways website. I see these cars all the time, drive everything from brilliant examples to absolute shonkers, and am also an owner. My leg's aching and I'm putting off some paperwork for the accounts so I'll knock this watered-down version together quickly while I neck my cup of tea!
Three big potential expenses on an S (or most TVRs, in fairness)
1. Chassis - the most expensive thing to sort (if you get it done properly). It's not just outriggers, it's everything (in fact on an S chassis, the rear beam is more important than the outriggers, and much trickier to sort out.) Beware cars that have 'had the outriggers changed', as while there is every possibility the job has been completed to a good standard, and the rest of the chassis genuinely is sound, it's more likely that it hasn't been. I've never had an S come in that has had the outriggers done in the past and thought "Oh, that's a decent job!" Expect to spend £5-10k (depending on how crazy you want to go), though if you can spanner yourself, you can drastically reduce this.
2. Bodywork - paintwork on a TVR is expensive, if you want a good job. The bodyshop will probably have to remove one or two previous attempts on most cars, too. Doors drop off too, as the retaining bobbins in the GRP break out - complete pain to put it right if you want the repair to look respectable. Expect to pay around £4-6k.
3. Interior - if you do all the labour yourself, you could fully retrim a TVR S for about £2-2.5k (incl. roof). If you want someone to do it for you, double it (though the odds are not every single component would need replacing).
As far as the models go:
S1 - Usually has the 2.8 engine fitted (though some very late cars might have moved over to the 2.9). Don't discount a good S1 for a s
t S2. A good car is a good car.
Pros: Relatively simple injection system. Probably the best value S in terms of purchase price alone. Makes a unique sound amongst the S range (raspy, old school, lots of pops and bangs). In my experience doing chassis', white S1 chassis have tended to fare better than the darker red later S3/V8S spec chassis', which suggests the original coating was better. Obviously all of them will pretty much need the chassis doing by now if they haven't had it already, but prolonging the condition of the steel underneath helps.
Cons: The slowest of the bunch (worth about 15-25bhp less than the 2.9 - ignore TVR's BS power claims - though in fairness no S model is about speed, unless it's modified). Build quality on the earliest cars was pretty bad, along with the quality of materials, and build improved as the S aged. Small doors (like the S2) which can make it trickier for people to get into and out. Wind-up windows (if you class that as a con).
S2 - As per S1, but with electric windows (usually) and the 2.9 engine. Very slightly revised rear suspension settings, though you'd be hard pressed to notice the difference.
Pros: Bit more grunt than a 2.8. Sounds great again - nothing like the 2.8, more like an off-beat V8. Most common S out there, so usually easier to find one.
Cons: Still has the small doors. EFI system can be a pig if it throws its toys out the pram.
S3 - As per S2, but with newer dashboard (which looks older in style, weirdly) and larger doors, plus some other tit bits like optional driving lamps etc.
Pros: Larger doors - make a big difference to the ease of access. Build quality noticeable better than S1/S2, along with quality of leather/carpet etc. Revised rear trailing arms with adjustable toe angle. A little bit less 'kit car' in feel than the S1/S2.
Cons: Tend to cost a bit more than the other V6 models. Chassis seems to be the most easily affected for rot (in my experience, which follows the same pattern in Chimaera/Griffith models, where the later ones tend to fare worse for corrosion, but are better built).
(I won't bother doing the S4 - you're unlikely to find one!)
V8S - Totally different animal to the V6 cars. A very different drive to the V6, both in terms of feel and character.
Pros: Much quicker than a V6 in a straight line (I've seen people say there's not much in it - only true if the V8 driver isn't trying), though around the bends the V8 feels more of a handful. Revised suspension with wider track. Disc brakes all round. Limited slip diff. Exhaust doesn't fit as badly as the V6 cars (where it's a complete afterthought). They sound great (best sounding RV8 TVR in my opinion). You get the better build of the S3-spec car.
Cons: More expensive to buy and marginally more expensive to run. Camshafts are made of chocolate. Gearchange can be a bit average (though it's possible to improve it).
Overall, they're great fun. None of them are what I'd class as 'fast', but to worry about that is missing the point. They're all about fun, and any well-sorted S will put a sizable grin on your face in the right conditions. They're ongoing projects, and they're never finished. NOBODY'S car has nothing left to do on it, including the ones for sale! The roof is a PITA to erect and take down, but with the roof down it's a great experience.
My advice would be to buy the most sorted car you can. If you can find one that's had the chassis, body and interior done, it'll cost more but possibly save you money in the future, or you can buy cheap and get one or more of the three attended to. You rarely break even with these cars though, so you do it for the love, not the bank balance!
I've not got time for more, but if you've got any Q's I'm happy to help
Three big potential expenses on an S (or most TVRs, in fairness)
1. Chassis - the most expensive thing to sort (if you get it done properly). It's not just outriggers, it's everything (in fact on an S chassis, the rear beam is more important than the outriggers, and much trickier to sort out.) Beware cars that have 'had the outriggers changed', as while there is every possibility the job has been completed to a good standard, and the rest of the chassis genuinely is sound, it's more likely that it hasn't been. I've never had an S come in that has had the outriggers done in the past and thought "Oh, that's a decent job!" Expect to spend £5-10k (depending on how crazy you want to go), though if you can spanner yourself, you can drastically reduce this.
2. Bodywork - paintwork on a TVR is expensive, if you want a good job. The bodyshop will probably have to remove one or two previous attempts on most cars, too. Doors drop off too, as the retaining bobbins in the GRP break out - complete pain to put it right if you want the repair to look respectable. Expect to pay around £4-6k.
3. Interior - if you do all the labour yourself, you could fully retrim a TVR S for about £2-2.5k (incl. roof). If you want someone to do it for you, double it (though the odds are not every single component would need replacing).
As far as the models go:
S1 - Usually has the 2.8 engine fitted (though some very late cars might have moved over to the 2.9). Don't discount a good S1 for a s
t S2. A good car is a good car.Pros: Relatively simple injection system. Probably the best value S in terms of purchase price alone. Makes a unique sound amongst the S range (raspy, old school, lots of pops and bangs). In my experience doing chassis', white S1 chassis have tended to fare better than the darker red later S3/V8S spec chassis', which suggests the original coating was better. Obviously all of them will pretty much need the chassis doing by now if they haven't had it already, but prolonging the condition of the steel underneath helps.
Cons: The slowest of the bunch (worth about 15-25bhp less than the 2.9 - ignore TVR's BS power claims - though in fairness no S model is about speed, unless it's modified). Build quality on the earliest cars was pretty bad, along with the quality of materials, and build improved as the S aged. Small doors (like the S2) which can make it trickier for people to get into and out. Wind-up windows (if you class that as a con).
S2 - As per S1, but with electric windows (usually) and the 2.9 engine. Very slightly revised rear suspension settings, though you'd be hard pressed to notice the difference.
Pros: Bit more grunt than a 2.8. Sounds great again - nothing like the 2.8, more like an off-beat V8. Most common S out there, so usually easier to find one.
Cons: Still has the small doors. EFI system can be a pig if it throws its toys out the pram.
S3 - As per S2, but with newer dashboard (which looks older in style, weirdly) and larger doors, plus some other tit bits like optional driving lamps etc.
Pros: Larger doors - make a big difference to the ease of access. Build quality noticeable better than S1/S2, along with quality of leather/carpet etc. Revised rear trailing arms with adjustable toe angle. A little bit less 'kit car' in feel than the S1/S2.
Cons: Tend to cost a bit more than the other V6 models. Chassis seems to be the most easily affected for rot (in my experience, which follows the same pattern in Chimaera/Griffith models, where the later ones tend to fare worse for corrosion, but are better built).
(I won't bother doing the S4 - you're unlikely to find one!)
V8S - Totally different animal to the V6 cars. A very different drive to the V6, both in terms of feel and character.
Pros: Much quicker than a V6 in a straight line (I've seen people say there's not much in it - only true if the V8 driver isn't trying), though around the bends the V8 feels more of a handful. Revised suspension with wider track. Disc brakes all round. Limited slip diff. Exhaust doesn't fit as badly as the V6 cars (where it's a complete afterthought). They sound great (best sounding RV8 TVR in my opinion). You get the better build of the S3-spec car.
Cons: More expensive to buy and marginally more expensive to run. Camshafts are made of chocolate. Gearchange can be a bit average (though it's possible to improve it).
Overall, they're great fun. None of them are what I'd class as 'fast', but to worry about that is missing the point. They're all about fun, and any well-sorted S will put a sizable grin on your face in the right conditions. They're ongoing projects, and they're never finished. NOBODY'S car has nothing left to do on it, including the ones for sale! The roof is a PITA to erect and take down, but with the roof down it's a great experience.
My advice would be to buy the most sorted car you can. If you can find one that's had the chassis, body and interior done, it'll cost more but possibly save you money in the future, or you can buy cheap and get one or more of the three attended to. You rarely break even with these cars though, so you do it for the love, not the bank balance!
I've not got time for more, but if you've got any Q's I'm happy to help
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