The Irish border
Discussion
Ayahuasca said:
Why is the Irish border the UK's problem?
Having left the EU the UK could say 'as far as we are concerned, the border arrangements on our side are unchanged'.
If the Irish or the EU want something different, let it be on their side of the border.
What am I missing?
Depends on WTO rules. We cant just ignore WTO unless we unilaterally offer free trade and regulatory equivalence. Difficult if their product regulations are at odds with our own, it would mean us being forced to shadow EU regulation.. Having left the EU the UK could say 'as far as we are concerned, the border arrangements on our side are unchanged'.
If the Irish or the EU want something different, let it be on their side of the border.
What am I missing?
Ayahuasca said:
Why is the Irish border the UK's problem?
Having left the EU the UK could say 'as far as we are concerned, the border arrangements on our side are unchanged'.
If the Irish or the EU want something different, let it be on their side of the border.
What am I missing?
In a nutshell, the problem is the RoI and UK do not want a return to border control. But the EU are insisting there must be some form of a border control between NI and RoI.Having left the EU the UK could say 'as far as we are concerned, the border arrangements on our side are unchanged'.
If the Irish or the EU want something different, let it be on their side of the border.
What am I missing?
MYOB said:
Ayahuasca said:
Why is the Irish border the UK's problem?
Having left the EU the UK could say 'as far as we are concerned, the border arrangements on our side are unchanged'.
If the Irish or the EU want something different, let it be on their side of the border.
What am I missing?
In a nutshell, the problem is the RoI and UK do not want a return to border control. But the EU are insisting there must be some form of a border control between NI and RoI.Having left the EU the UK could say 'as far as we are concerned, the border arrangements on our side are unchanged'.
If the Irish or the EU want something different, let it be on their side of the border.
What am I missing?
Ayahuasca said:
Why is the Irish border the UK's problem?
Having left the EU the UK could say 'as far as we are concerned, the border arrangements on our side are unchanged'.
If the Irish or the EU want something different, let it be on their side of the border.
What am I missing?
It’s our problem because we quit the club, so we have to sort out the resulting issues. Sounds fair.Having left the EU the UK could say 'as far as we are concerned, the border arrangements on our side are unchanged'.
If the Irish or the EU want something different, let it be on their side of the border.
What am I missing?
I’m surprised that renowned genius St Boris didn’t consider this...
Ayahuasca said:
A border is really two separate borders, one for each country, in and out of a narrow no man's land. The EU can insist on whatever it likes for the Irish /EU side, but it cannot dictate what form the UK side should take.
How will the UK stop people and goods from all over the EU wandering over the border and in to the country? Weren't we supposed to be taking back control?Jimboka said:
It’s our problem because we quit the club, so we have to sort out the resulting issues. Sounds fair.
If we quit the club, we should not be expected to continue to be bound by the club's rules. The EU is not entitled to dictate how the UK operates its border, so traffic from Ireland to the UK is up to us, and can be as free as it is right now.
Only traffic from the UK to Ireland is controlled by the EU.
Ayahuasca said:
Why is the Irish border the UK's problem?
Having left the EU the UK could say 'as far as we are concerned, the border arrangements on our side are unchanged'.
If the Irish or the EU want something different, let it be on their side of the border.
What am I missing?
You’re missing something called the Good Friday Agreement Having left the EU the UK could say 'as far as we are concerned, the border arrangements on our side are unchanged'.
If the Irish or the EU want something different, let it be on their side of the border.
What am I missing?
So your in France you sail round the uk to Ireland and then enter ROI via non patrolled border.....
Simply the eu want a border so let the eu enforce ine inside the eu. The uk don't want one so not our problem an not on our side of the line.
The uk then accept some level of smuggling hey ho. but no border would not mean eu nationals could work in the uk or gain access to services etc so this is not an issue. eu problem but they don't want to deal with it an nore to ireland so open border it is end off
Simply the eu want a border so let the eu enforce ine inside the eu. The uk don't want one so not our problem an not on our side of the line.
The uk then accept some level of smuggling hey ho. but no border would not mean eu nationals could work in the uk or gain access to services etc so this is not an issue. eu problem but they don't want to deal with it an nore to ireland so open border it is end off
mx5nut said:
Ayahuasca said:
The EU is not entitled to dictate how the UK operates its border, so traffic from Ireland to the UK is up to us, and can be as free as it is right now.
Great. Including traffic from the rest of the EU via Ireland, right?Gecko1978 said:
So your in France you sail round the uk to Ireland and then enter ROI via non patrolled border.....
Simply the eu want a border so let the eu enforce ine inside the eu. The uk don't want one so not our problem an not on our side of the line.
The uk then accept some level of smuggling hey ho. but no border would not mean eu nationals could work in the uk or gain access to services etc so this is not an issue. eu problem but they don't want to deal with it an nore to ireland so open border it is end off
Work and services could be controlled once inside the UK by permits. Not really a problem and certainly not a border issue.Simply the eu want a border so let the eu enforce ine inside the eu. The uk don't want one so not our problem an not on our side of the line.
The uk then accept some level of smuggling hey ho. but no border would not mean eu nationals could work in the uk or gain access to services etc so this is not an issue. eu problem but they don't want to deal with it an nore to ireland so open border it is end off
Ayahuasca said:
mx5nut said:
Ayahuasca said:
The EU is not entitled to dictate how the UK operates its border, so traffic from Ireland to the UK is up to us, and can be as free as it is right now.
Great. Including traffic from the rest of the EU via Ireland, right?
Sorry to spoil the party with boring old facts but the reality of the position is that, if we do not have a Single Market with the EU or a tariff-free trade agreement then both the RoI and UK have a legal obligation to track trade across the boarder and ensure that appropriate tariffs are paid. That means that, in reality, we are going to have to have some form of border between NI and RoI. The problem is that the absence of any border of any kind is perceived in both communities as an irreducible article of faith that underpins the GFA and the whole peace process.
the alternate option - and one that the more paranoid loyalists are coming to believe is underpinning Dublin & Brussels' position on the border issue - is to cede Northern Ireland to the Republic.
the alternate option - and one that the more paranoid loyalists are coming to believe is underpinning Dublin & Brussels' position on the border issue - is to cede Northern Ireland to the Republic.
Good. Good. Great to see the border issue is finally being taken seriously enough to commence debate and discussion amongst the Brexit side.
For the last 18 months Irish diplomats, politicians and journalists have been calling out the problem a Brexit would cause on the border, and were trying to engage with UK powers to find a solution. Didn't happen. Weren't taken seriously. Pooh-poohed off. Finally, finally, it's dawning on those UK powers that little Ireland has a point and a veto and more importantly, they've got 26 mates at their back. Finally, the UK seems to be moving to engage on it.
You know what the Irish are observing? An upsurge in the old attitude of contempt and dismissal to them by the British establishment and population. Attitudes thought to have been laid to rest 20 years ago.
Ireland could have, and should have, been the UK's biggest, best and closest ally in the EU camp as and after the UK Brexited. But the UK is in danger of blowing that.
For the last 18 months Irish diplomats, politicians and journalists have been calling out the problem a Brexit would cause on the border, and were trying to engage with UK powers to find a solution. Didn't happen. Weren't taken seriously. Pooh-poohed off. Finally, finally, it's dawning on those UK powers that little Ireland has a point and a veto and more importantly, they've got 26 mates at their back. Finally, the UK seems to be moving to engage on it.
You know what the Irish are observing? An upsurge in the old attitude of contempt and dismissal to them by the British establishment and population. Attitudes thought to have been laid to rest 20 years ago.
Ireland could have, and should have, been the UK's biggest, best and closest ally in the EU camp as and after the UK Brexited. But the UK is in danger of blowing that.
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