Will VAR Change Football for the Better?
Discussion
TwigtheWonderkid said:
So you accept offside is binary, but what you're saying is that you think they got the binary decision wrong?
That's fine. Knock yourself out. But don't argue that offside isn't binary.
Just because it's a binary outcome, does not of course mean it's black and white.That's fine. Knock yourself out. But don't argue that offside isn't binary.
If it was, computers could do it as they can with a ball crossing the line. There's shades of grey which I think is that Chevy is getting at.
Humans are involved in off-sides because it is so objective; the exact nanosecond the ball is struck, where exactly the imaginary line is drawn, the resolution of the images, all contributes to whether it is given as offside, are all analog measurements.
Zeek said:
IMO the most important point that people (Twig especially) made before this came in was that decisions even out over the season. That's always been generally, true, and despite VAR, that has not changed, and doesn't seem to be about to change. If it's still "some you win, some you lose" then the question really is "what's the f
king point in VAR?"
Indeed. The only good thing to come out of VAR is that the myth of "big clubs get all the decisions go their way" has been debunked. We're a third of the way thru the season and the top 3 from last season (pre var) occupy 3 of the top for places currently. The top sides get more pens, more free kicks, and ultimately more goals, because they have better footballers playing for them and have the ball more. king point in VAR?"I confess I haven't read all the pages of this thread, but to answer the original question - yes, VAR has made football better. All of the decisions in the EPL this past weekend were correct in my opinion. Most notably the two handballs that Pep was so annoyed about. Alexander-Arnold's hand was not unnatural, nor did he deliberately move his arm towards the ball; it was the momentum as he halted his run that caused both arms to move forward. And as for the second handball; no chance - and Pep, you're better than that, as Chris Sutton would say.
I'm not bothered that it takes a little time to get to the decision either; rather late and correct than instant and wrong.
I would, however, like the conversation between the ref and VAR to be on screen for all to see, like they do in rugby. Actually, I'd like the refs to be miked up like they are in rugby.
Neil Swarbrick's 7 out of 10 is a little low; I'd give it more like 9 out of 10. I have no vested interest here, my team plays in League 1 where the standard of refereeing is a million miles from the EPL, and all the worse for it.
I'm not bothered that it takes a little time to get to the decision either; rather late and correct than instant and wrong.
I would, however, like the conversation between the ref and VAR to be on screen for all to see, like they do in rugby. Actually, I'd like the refs to be miked up like they are in rugby.
Neil Swarbrick's 7 out of 10 is a little low; I'd give it more like 9 out of 10. I have no vested interest here, my team plays in League 1 where the standard of refereeing is a million miles from the EPL, and all the worse for it.
TwigtheWonderkid said:
p4cks said:
The main issue seems to be the application of the PL's rule... "VAR can be used to overturn a subjective decision if a "clear and obvious error" has been identified"
Clear, and obvious. Sending off the wrong player is clear and obvious; taking 4 minutes to determine a fella's toe is offside is not, in my opinion, clear or obvious.
OK, I'll say it again. Offside is not a subjective decision. It's like a goal line decision. The player is either on or off. Not maybe, not almost. So clear and obvious doesn't apply to offside. Fouls are subjective. This is the ruling and this is how VAR works. Now we can argue about how we think it should be, or whether we should have it at all (I think not), but I wish people would stop banging on about clear and obvious in relation to offside calls. Because it doesn't apply. Clear, and obvious. Sending off the wrong player is clear and obvious; taking 4 minutes to determine a fella's toe is offside is not, in my opinion, clear or obvious.
When Milner was 6 feet offside when he crossed the ball for Liverpool to score against West Ham last season that was clear and obvious to everyone except the linesman and referee.
Brave Fart said:
I confess I haven't read all the pages of this thread, but to answer the original question - yes, VAR has made football better. All of the decisions in the EPL this past weekend were correct in my opinion. Most notably the two handballs that Pep was so annoyed about. Alexander-Arnold's hand was not unnatural, nor did he deliberately move his arm towards the ball; it was the momentum as he halted his run that caused both arms to move forward
Equally, the contact with Silva's arm just before that should arguably been an offence, as per the FA rules:HANDLING THE BALL
It is an offence if a player:
deliberately touches the ball with their hand/arm, including moving the hand/arm towards the ball
gains possession/control of the ball after it has touched their hand/arm and then:
scores in the opponents’ goal
creates a goal-scoring opportunity
The ball was going nowhere until Silva deflected it with his arm.
Generally, I think that any fan should reverse the roles and ask themselves 'what would I think if it were my team/player on the other end of the decision' before dashing to their keyboard to fulminate on the internet with their conspiracy theories.
Brave Fart said:
I confess I haven't read all the pages of this thread, but to answer the original question - yes, VAR has made football better. All of the decisions in the EPL this past weekend were correct in my opinion.
Even if that were true, as I said in the 2nd post on this thread, I don't understand why getting every decision right makes the game better. I think it makes worse. The game is at its best when most decisions are right, but some are wrong. Like when there was no VAR. LotusOmega375D said:
***whispers***
2 match International break with all Home Nations in non VAR qualifying action.
Seems to be working pretty well so far with just the on-field officials, doesn’t it?
Indeed. No goal line tech either, so Scotland got away with murder in Gibraltar. And the Gibraltar fans now have something to blame their defeat on. 2 match International break with all Home Nations in non VAR qualifying action.
Seems to be working pretty well so far with just the on-field officials, doesn’t it?
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Driver101 said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Indeed. No goal line tech either, so Scotland got away with murder in Gibraltar. And the Gibraltar fans now have something to blame their defeat on.
I blame your geography. 
Keoparakolo said:
Don’t get me started on Liverpool, seems no goals are allowed to be scored against them this season, nor can their players commit handball like other teams can.
We haven't kept a clean sheet in 10 games, and Mane had a goal disallowed for handball against Utd, so that's a load of rubbish, isn't it?
Keoparakolo said:
Penalties given / not given / retaken galore today. Total lack of consistency.
Don’t get me started on Liverpool, seems no goals are allowed to be scored against them this season, nor can their players commit handball like other teams can.
I saw a lot of people, Lineker included seem to suggest LiVARpool got away with it again yesterday. I've not seen the incident.Don’t get me started on Liverpool, seems no goals are allowed to be scored against them this season, nor can their players commit handball like other teams can.
I missed the Valencia one but did see the Napoli goal against Liverpool. VAR checked for a foul on Van Dijk in the build-up, but decided it was OK. The same thing happened the night before when PSG were awarded a penalty against Real Madrid and a red card for Courtois, but then VAR checked and spotted a slight touch on Marcelo in the build-up to the attack and invited the ref to check with the on-field monitor. He saw it as a foul, so reinstated Courtois, reversed his penalty decision and gave a free-kick to RM.
Where’s the consistency? Same competition, different application of the rules. Why wasn’t the referee at Anfield invited to check the on-field monitor and decide if VVD had been fouled or not?
I’m no Liverpool fan and feel they’ve benefited more than most from VAR, but the implementation of the system is just weird.
I followed most of the CL games on BT Sport Goals Show and VAR seemed to be a major factor in pretty much all of them. For example Haaland of RB Salzburg had a goal disallowed seemingly for no reason whatsoever.
Where’s the consistency? Same competition, different application of the rules. Why wasn’t the referee at Anfield invited to check the on-field monitor and decide if VVD had been fouled or not?
I’m no Liverpool fan and feel they’ve benefited more than most from VAR, but the implementation of the system is just weird.
I followed most of the CL games on BT Sport Goals Show and VAR seemed to be a major factor in pretty much all of them. For example Haaland of RB Salzburg had a goal disallowed seemingly for no reason whatsoever.
ChevyChase77 said:
Did anyone see Valencia's penalty last night?
The Valencia player runs into Jorghino - should be a foul on him, ref incorrectly awards a penalty and VAR fails to overturn it. What a farce.
Back to clear and obvious. I didn't think it was a pen, but the bloke I was watching it with did. If the 2 of us can disagree, then it's open to interpretation and so not clear and obvious error. The Valencia player runs into Jorghino - should be a foul on him, ref incorrectly awards a penalty and VAR fails to overturn it. What a farce.
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