Ian Wright says criticism of Raheem Sterling is racist

[wjb]

Melchett1905 said:

wjb said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

wjb said:

Neville made points that I've said for years about black players, as did Durham on the radio. Talking about people in the media who single out and label Lukaku and Pogba as "lazy", are feeding racist stereotypes, he's right, because if he was genuinely lazy he'd be at home playing football on PlayStation not at Old Trafford.

He's not right. It's obvious to anyone with half a brain that when a player is called lazy, he's lazy in comparison to other players, not lazy in comparison to the general public. The same as when we call a player useless. Of course he's not useless, compared to you or me, but useless compared to other footballers.

Can I ask, if you are watching Pogba on one of his off days, and he appears to be casually jogging around midfield and not putting in a shift, what adjectives can a fan use without opening themselves up to an accusation of racism.

Remember what Ron Atkinson called Marcel Desailly? Ignoring the N word thats the stereotype I'm talking about.

I remember that. ITV sacked Ron for his 'racism' didn't they? BBC have re-employed Trevor Sinclair.

Oh well, you've shown your true colours there.

[Melchett1905]

wjb said:

Melchett1905 said:

wjb said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

wjb said:

Neville made points that I've said for years about black players, as did Durham on the radio. Talking about people in the media who single out and label Lukaku and Pogba as "lazy", are feeding racist stereotypes, he's right, because if he was genuinely lazy he'd be at home playing football on PlayStation not at Old Trafford.

He's not right. It's obvious to anyone with half a brain that when a player is called lazy, he's lazy in comparison to other players, not lazy in comparison to the general public. The same as when we call a player useless. Of course he's not useless, compared to you or me, but useless compared to other footballers.

Can I ask, if you are watching Pogba on one of his off days, and he appears to be casually jogging around midfield and not putting in a shift, what adjectives can a fan use without opening themselves up to an accusation of racism.

Remember what Ron Atkinson called Marcel Desailly? Ignoring the N word thats the stereotype I'm talking about.

I remember that. ITV sacked Ron for his 'racism' didn't they? BBC have re-employed Trevor Sinclair.

Oh well, you've shown your true colours there.

How? Just pointing out that Ron was quite rightly sacked by ITV but the BBC didn't do the same with Trevor Sinclair. So not sure what you're getting at here.

[wjb]

Melchett1905 said:

wjb said:

Melchett1905 said:

wjb said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

wjb said:

Neville made points that I've said for years about black players, as did Durham on the radio. Talking about people in the media who single out and label Lukaku and Pogba as "lazy", are feeding racist stereotypes, he's right, because if he was genuinely lazy he'd be at home playing football on PlayStation not at Old Trafford.

He's not right. It's obvious to anyone with half a brain that when a player is called lazy, he's lazy in comparison to other players, not lazy in comparison to the general public. The same as when we call a player useless. Of course he's not useless, compared to you or me, but useless compared to other footballers.

Can I ask, if you are watching Pogba on one of his off days, and he appears to be casually jogging around midfield and not putting in a shift, what adjectives can a fan use without opening themselves up to an accusation of racism.

Remember what Ron Atkinson called Marcel Desailly? Ignoring the N word thats the stereotype I'm talking about.

I remember that. ITV sacked Ron for his 'racism' didn't they? BBC have re-employed Trevor Sinclair.

Oh well, you've shown your true colours there.

How? Just pointing out that Ron was quite rightly sacked by ITV but the BBC didn't do the same with Trevor Sinclair. So not sure what you're getting at here.

You put quote marks around racism.

You now say, "quite rightly" but it didn't look like that the first time around did it?

Hence my post.

[Alpinestars]

Melchett1905 said:

Alpinestars said:

Melchett1905 said:

Alpinestars said:

Melchett1905 said:

Berbatov was accused all the the time of being 'lazy'.

Are all these examples you and twig are coming up with supposed to prove Sterling and others aren’t being subjected to racism?

No. IMO you're coming up with examples such as 'lazy' being a racist term if used on a black player and fueling more race baiting. We're just pointing out that white players have been labelled as lazy too. We're not saying black players aren't subjected to racism though.

Where have I said that?

You questioned why I was coming up with examples of Berbatov being lazy. I was using it as an example that white players are subjected to this criticism too. Raheem or other black players may well be subjected to racism, but imo, being labelled 'lazy' certainly isn't one.

You said I was coming up with examples such as “lazy”. Where did I say that?

[Alpinestars]

@ Melchett1905 and Twig - do you think the fan who ranted at Sterling is racist?

[wjb]

Alpinestars said:

Melchett1905 said:

Alpinestars said:

Melchett1905 said:

Alpinestars said:

Melchett1905 said:

Berbatov was accused all the the time of being 'lazy'.

Are all these examples you and twig are coming up with supposed to prove Sterling and others aren’t being subjected to racism?

No. IMO you're coming up with examples such as 'lazy' being a racist term if used on a black player and fueling more race baiting. We're just pointing out that white players have been labelled as lazy too. We're not saying black players aren't subjected to racism though.

Where have I said that?

You questioned why I was coming up with examples of Berbatov being lazy. I was using it as an example that white players are subjected to this criticism too. Raheem or other black players may well be subjected to racism, but imo, being labelled 'lazy' certainly isn't one.

You said I was coming up with examples such as “lazy”. Where did I say that?

Regarding the lazy reference.

I said that Adrian Durham raised the point (which I agreed with) on talksport, that calling a black player lazy can fuel a racist narrative that "all black people are lazy" and people, especially in the media, should choose their words more carefully.

No one said calling someone lazy is racist, but care should be taken when describing a black person as lazy as it can look like you're just mindlessly regurgitating 80's racial stereotypes.

Does that make sense?

[TwigtheWonderkid]

wjb said:

Regarding the lazy reference.

I said that Adrian Durham raised the point (which I agreed with) on talksport, that calling a black player lazy can fuel a racist narrative that "all black people are lazy" and people, especially in the media, should choose their words more carefully.

No one said calling someone lazy is racist, but care should be taken when describing a black person as lazy as it can look like you're just mindlessly regurgitating 80's racial stereotypes.

Does that make sense?

It does make sense. But it still begs the question, what would be an acceptable description of Paul Pogba for some of his performances this season. Is it just a case of looking up lazy in the thesaurus and picking another word. Lethargic? Unmotivated?
Does that really help?

Assuming that you believe that a black player you think is not working hard enough should be criticised.

If I say Hazard is lazy and Kante is doing his dirty work for him, is that just tokenism, me bigging up a black player at the expense of a white one?

[TwigtheWonderkid]

Alpinestars said:

@ Melchett1905 and Twig - do you think the fan who ranted at Sterling is racist?

If professional lip readers confirm black was said, then yes. If it was "manc" instead of black, then we won't know for sure. We would have needed a white Man City player to have been close to the same fan during the game to see if he got similar abuse. We do know that many of the boneheads in the front row will just abuse any opposition player that comes within earshot.

[wjb]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

wjb said:

Regarding the lazy reference.

I said that Adrian Durham raised the point (which I agreed with) on talksport, that calling a black player lazy can fuel a racist narrative that "all black people are lazy" and people, especially in the media, should choose their words more carefully.

No one said calling someone lazy is racist, but care should be taken when describing a black person as lazy as it can look like you're just mindlessly regurgitating 80's racial stereotypes.

Does that make sense?

It does make sense. But it still begs the question, what would be an acceptable description of Paul Pogba for some of his performances this season. Is it just a case of looking up lazy in the thesaurus and picking another word. Lethargic? Unmotivated?
Does that really help?

Assuming that you believe that a black player you think is not working hard enough should be criticised.

If I say Hazard is lazy and Kante is doing his dirty work for him, is that just tokenism, me bigging up a black player at the expense of a white one?

Why on earth wouldn't I not criticise a black player for not working hard enough?

If you want to use lazy or any other word, then do so, I can't stop you can I?

Regarding Pogba, I'd describe him as an excellent footballer who for one reason or another clearly isn't playing to his full potential.

[Melchett1905]

wjb said:

Melchett1905 said:

wjb said:

Melchett1905 said:

wjb said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

wjb said:

Neville made points that I've said for years about black players, as did Durham on the radio. Talking about people in the media who single out and label Lukaku and Pogba as "lazy", are feeding racist stereotypes, he's right, because if he was genuinely lazy he'd be at home playing football on PlayStation not at Old Trafford.

He's not right. It's obvious to anyone with half a brain that when a player is called lazy, he's lazy in comparison to other players, not lazy in comparison to the general public. The same as when we call a player useless. Of course he's not useless, compared to you or me, but useless compared to other footballers.

Can I ask, if you are watching Pogba on one of his off days, and he appears to be casually jogging around midfield and not putting in a shift, what adjectives can a fan use without opening themselves up to an accusation of racism.

Remember what Ron Atkinson called Marcel Desailly? Ignoring the N word thats the stereotype I'm talking about.

I remember that. ITV sacked Ron for his 'racism' didn't they? BBC have re-employed Trevor Sinclair.

Oh well, you've shown your true colours there.

How? Just pointing out that Ron was quite rightly sacked by ITV but the BBC didn't do the same with Trevor Sinclair. So not sure what you're getting at here.

You put quote marks around racism.

You now say, "quite rightly" but it didn't look like that the first time around did it?

Hence my post.

Oh right. So you just assumed I was sticking up for Ron. You're agenda is clear at least.

[Alpinestars]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

Alpinestars said:

@ Melchett1905 and Twig - do you think the fan who ranted at Sterling is racist?

If professional lip readers confirm black was said, then yes. If it was "manc" instead of black, then we won't know for sure. We would have needed a white Man City player to have been close to the same fan during the game to see if he got similar abuse. We do know that many of the boneheads in the front row will just abuse any opposition player that comes within earshot.

You actually believe he would have said Manc?

Like you believed it was established that Terry didn’t call Anton a black . You do surprise me.

Have you read his twitter response to yet more of your racist gans re the Paris incident?

[wjb]

Melchett1905 said:

Oh right. So you just assumed I was sticking up for Ron. You're agenda is clear at least.

and I wonder why someone would assume that?

Let's see.

You signed up 3 days ago and 99% of your posts have been in relation to the sterling incident.

Then you put "racist" in quotes regarding what Ron Atkinson called Marcel Desailly.

Have I got it all wrong?

(That's rhetorical btw)

[Melchett1905]

Alpinestars said:

@ Melchett1905 and Twig - do you think the fan who ranted at Sterling is racist?

I've no idea. I don't know anything about him tbh. All I know is his name and his age. If he's found not guilty in this instance, he may or may not be.

[Melchett1905]

wjb said:

Melchett1905 said:

Oh right. So you just assumed I was sticking up for Ron. You're agenda is clear at least.

and I wonder why someone would assume that?

Let's see.

You signed up 3 days ago and 99% of your posts have been in relation to the sterling incident.

Then you put "racist" in quotes regarding what Ron Atkinson called Marcel Desailly.

Have I got it all wrong?

(That's rhetorical btw)

Sorry, shouldn't have drawn attention to the word racism and you've misinterpreted. I'm pointing out that Ron was sacked from ITV for being racist yet the BBC took Trevor Sinclair back. I would assume the likes of Lineker, who are up in arms about the racism Sterling receives are also up in arms the BBC took Sinclair back. Lineker would happily see Mr Wing banned for life from Chelsea (and rightly so if found guilty) but why isn't he calling for Trevor Sinclair to be banned for life from the BBC? He'll just go quiet on that issue.

[Alpinestars]

Melchett1905 said:

Alpinestars said:

@ Melchett1905 and Twig - do you think the fan who ranted at Sterling is racist?

I've no idea. I don't know anything about him tbh. All I know is his name and his age. If he's found not guilty in this instance, he may or may not be.

I know he may or may not be. You’ve seen the incident, what’s your view?

[TwigtheWonderkid]

Alpinestars said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

Alpinestars said:

@ Melchett1905 and Twig - do you think the fan who ranted at Sterling is racist?

If professional lip readers confirm black was said, then yes. If it was "manc" instead of black, then we won't know for sure. We would have needed a white Man City player to have been close to the same fan during the game to see if he got similar abuse. We do know that many of the boneheads in the front row will just abuse any opposition player that comes within earshot.

You actually believe he would have said Manc?

You don't think it's a possibility? There are skilled lip readers who will be able to say for sure, hopefully.

[jcremonini]

Alpinestars said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

Alpinestars said:

@ Melchett1905 and Twig - do you think the fan who ranted at Sterling is racist?

If professional lip readers confirm black was said, then yes. If it was "manc" instead of black, then we won't know for sure. We would have needed a white Man City player to have been close to the same fan during the game to see if he got similar abuse. We do know that many of the boneheads in the front row will just abuse any opposition player that comes within earshot.

You actually believe he would have said Manc?

Like you believed it was established that Terry didn’t call Anton a black . You do surprise me.

Have you read his twitter response to yet more of your racist gans re the Paris incident?

You really are hard of reading aren't you ? He's already replied with the only answer worth replying with as, unlike you it appears, he is not judge , juror and executioner on the whole issue. It doesn't matter what we think - what does matter is that due process is followed and the correct result is reached and , if required, the punishment is severe. Just like Terry - it does not matter what we think as a court of law decided he wasn't.

Why is that concept so hard for you to grasp ?

As far as "yet more of your (Chelsea) fans" why are you singling them out when this whole conversation should be (and until you came along , was) talking about the racist element in football as a whole ?

As an example of this let me spin my 'wheel of scummy fans who are racist and support this team ' and see who it comes with shall we.......

......drumroll please.....

..... spins......

'MANCHESTER UNITED'

Ok, so a quick search of ManU racists in the news comes up with:

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premi...
https://www.sportsjoe.ie/football/manchester-unite...
https://www.capitalfm.com/manchester/radio/news/lo...

So, I have no idea what team you support but if it just happens to be them then taking some sort of moral high ground on the subject is really not right.

So - can we get back to the subject as whole and talk about why criticism of Sterllng by the press may be construed as racist ?

Edited by jcremonini on Wednesday 12th December 12:51

[Melchett1905]

Alpinestars said:

Melchett1905 said:

Alpinestars said:

@ Melchett1905 and Twig - do you think the fan who ranted at Sterling is racist?

I've no idea. I don't know anything about him tbh. All I know is his name and his age. If he's found not guilty in this instance, he may or may not be.

I know he may or may not be. You’ve seen the incident, what’s your view?

My view is, I've watched it a load of times and I've no idea what he's saying.

I will add to that, if you're not categorically sure with definitive evidence what he's saying you shouldn't make judgement until the inquiry has taken place. What happens if Mr Wing was found not guilty? What then from the likes of Rio Ferdinand, Matthew Syed and others who have fueled this? Do they give an apology for getting it wrong? Are their jobs on the line? Does Mr Wing get his job back? Stirring things up without conclusive proof can ruin someones life. It can also hinder a fair trial.

The only thing we know at this stage is, Mr Wing and a few others were acting like imbeciles as a lot of other football fans do around the country.

So it's always best to go with the approach of letting the professionals do their job with the inquiry and take action accordingly.

[Alpinestars]

jcremonini said:

You really are hard of reading aren't you ? He's already replied with the only answer worth replying with as, unlike you it appears, he is not judge , juror and executioner on the whole issue. It doesn't matter what we think - what does matter is that due process is followed and the correct result is reached and , if required, the punishment is severe. Just like Terry - it does not matter what we think as a court of law decided he wasn't.

Why is that concept so hard for you to grasp ?

As far as "yet more of your (Chelsea) fans" why are you singling them out when this whole conversation should be (and until you came along , was) talking about the racist element in football as a whole ?

As an example of this let me spin my 'wheel of scummy fans who are racist and support this team ' and see who it comes with shall we.......

......drumroll please.....

..... spins......

'MANCHESTER UNITED'

Ok, so a quick search of ManU racists in the news comes up with:

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premi...
https://www.sportsjoe.ie/football/manchester-unite...
https://www.capitalfm.com/manchester/radio/news/lo...

So, I have no idea what team you support but if it just happens to be them then taking some sort of moral high ground on the subject is really not right.

So - can we get back to the subject as whole and talk about why criticism of Sterllng by the press may be construed as racist ?

Edited by jcremonini on Wednesday 12th December 12:51

You got that link yet, or were you lying?

[jcremonini]

Alpinestars said:

jcremonini said:

You really are hard of reading aren't you ? He's already replied with the only answer worth replying with as, unlike you it appears, he is not judge , juror and executioner on the whole issue. It doesn't matter what we think - what does matter is that due process is followed and the correct result is reached and , if required, the punishment is severe. Just like Terry - it does not matter what we think as a court of law decided he wasn't.

Why is that concept so hard for you to grasp ?

As far as "yet more of your (Chelsea) fans" why are you singling them out when this whole conversation should be (and until you came along , was) talking about the racist element in football as a whole ?

As an example of this let me spin my 'wheel of scummy fans who are racist and support this team ' and see who it comes with shall we.......

......drumroll please.....

..... spins......

'MANCHESTER UNITED'

Ok, so a quick search of ManU racists in the news comes up with:

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premi...
https://www.sportsjoe.ie/football/manchester-unite...
https://www.capitalfm.com/manchester/radio/news/lo...

So, I have no idea what team you support but if it just happens to be them then taking some sort of moral high ground on the subject is really not right.

So - can we get back to the subject as whole and talk about why criticism of Sterllng by the press may be construed as racist ?

Edited by jcremonini on Wednesday 12th December 12:51

You got that link yet, or were you lying?

I've told you. Do your own work.