The Official Liverpool FC Thread [Vol 17]
Discussion
franki68 said:
Does he give the managers what they want ?
The transfer policy with 4 consecutive managers has been a shambles.
The clubs injury record has been a disgrace for a long time ,at one point a few years ago we had 9 defenders in the squad all injured ,this is not bad luck .
Nothing has been done to rectify it,
Highlighted recently because OGS wanted to bring in a new physio ,deal agreed (Celtic physio ) but the board never sorted out all the arrangements and the guy got fed up and told them to stuff it .
Depends , you cant just keep asking and asking and asking, at some point he is surely expecting the managers to improve players and work with the players he has signed.The transfer policy with 4 consecutive managers has been a shambles.
The clubs injury record has been a disgrace for a long time ,at one point a few years ago we had 9 defenders in the squad all injured ,this is not bad luck .
Nothing has been done to rectify it,
Highlighted recently because OGS wanted to bring in a new physio ,deal agreed (Celtic physio ) but the board never sorted out all the arrangements and the guy got fed up and told them to stuff it .
He signed Bailey and Lindelof for Jose for 65m or there abouts then everyone is slagging him off for not funding another CB at 60m - Jose signed them so work with them and improve them (diff for Ole as he didnt sign them so he backed him for a very overpriced Maguire at 80m)
He backed Ole in the summer for 150m - at what point does a spend become acceptable?
He is asked to sign players and you cannot say he doesn't do that, just because he hasnt signed x y z doesn't mean he doesn't back them, I am pretty sure he has restrictions to.
He backed you for Pogba, Sanchez etc etc
For me the problem surely lies in the scouting and the managers and Glazers as they are just about money - he tries to get who he is asked to, not everyone is seeing UTD as number 1 destination anymore so there are bound to be some that slip through the net.
jammy-git said:
I do agree with Franki somewhat. If rumours are to be believed Woodward had the final say on which players Moyes and Jose brought in, infamously vetoing Jose's request for Toby Alderweireld.
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And why shouldnt he? he back jose for 2 cbs at 65m , Toby would have wanted a massive salary , is 30 years old, slow and his best days are behind him. I doubt Klopp would have been backed to go spend 200k a week on Toby to. .
Flip Martian said:
There did seem to be an element with Jose joining Utd that he just said "these players are rubbish, buy me new ones". Most managers surely are expected to try and improve what's there, at least, alongside getting in new blood. Jose didn't seem to want to do even that.
Jose is a knob, it’s not like he hadn’t signposted as much before they gave him the job. We don't know that Jose wanted Bailey or Lindelof. They could have been second and third choice on Jose's list behind Toby. Nor do I feel like Pogba is a Jose type of signing either - he's not really the sort of midfielder Jose has signed at other clubs.
I get the impression that the Utd squad is made up of a mix of Woodward signings and manager choices (though not necessarily first choices).
Not that I think Jose was doing a particularly good job (other than that 2nd place finish). I do think all the Utd managers since Fergie left have been let down by Woodward.
I get the impression that the Utd squad is made up of a mix of Woodward signings and manager choices (though not necessarily first choices).
Not that I think Jose was doing a particularly good job (other than that 2nd place finish). I do think all the Utd managers since Fergie left have been let down by Woodward.
Flip Martian said:
There did seem to be an element with Jose joining Utd that he just said "these players are rubbish, buy me new ones". Most managers surely are expected to try and improve what's there, at least, alongside getting in new blood. Jose didn't seem to want to do even that.
I totally agree, every manager has been backed at UTD you only have to look at money spent., you cant just expect the CEO to keep signing players when he has already signed them. Get on the training ground and f
king improve them. If Klopp himself wanted Mane/Salah and both were crap I doubt we would back him quickly again for another wide forward - improve them, make them work as you wanted them.
Edited by m3sye on Monday 20th January 13:49
jammy-git said:
Brendan Rodgers was technically backed by FSG. .
What you saying here though? are you comparing him to something or have I missed something?I just think Ed gets the flack and from what I see there issues are the scouting and managers, he has backed loads of managers, not his fault if the ones he signs are not up to scratch, he was just asked to sign them.
m3sye said:
jammy-git said:
Brendan Rodgers was technically backed by FSG. .
What you saying here though? are you comparing him to something or have I missed something?I just think Ed gets the flack and from what I see there issues are the scouting and managers, he has backed loads of managers, not his fault if the ones he signs are not up to scratch, he was just asked to sign them.
Several of the signings were down to woodward as I understand it,the managers consented but some were not their preferred choice.
You are all defending him because you know the truth and you want him to stay.
He gave jm a new contract mid contract and then didn’t support him transfer wise and then sacked him.
He gave ole a big contract when he absolutely didn’t need to ,the result of which was immediate.
He has overseen a compete failure of the medical and training staff ,for ten years the club have had excessive injuries.
There has been no investment in the stadium .OT now looks tired compared to a lot of other grounds .
He has on the other hand signed some fabulous sponsorship deals ,but how good are these deals if United aren’t in the champs league and continued absence will have a huge impact on it.
Having watched Leicester and Chelsea I see no reason why United shouldn’t finish top 4 ,but having probably our best player and the 2 best players this season out with long term injuries we must be making signings now to ensure united finish top 4 is imperative ,
You are all defending him because you know the truth and you want him to stay.
He gave jm a new contract mid contract and then didn’t support him transfer wise and then sacked him.
He gave ole a big contract when he absolutely didn’t need to ,the result of which was immediate.
He has overseen a compete failure of the medical and training staff ,for ten years the club have had excessive injuries.
There has been no investment in the stadium .OT now looks tired compared to a lot of other grounds .
He has on the other hand signed some fabulous sponsorship deals ,but how good are these deals if United aren’t in the champs league and continued absence will have a huge impact on it.
Having watched Leicester and Chelsea I see no reason why United shouldn’t finish top 4 ,but having probably our best player and the 2 best players this season out with long term injuries we must be making signings now to ensure united finish top 4 is imperative ,
m3sye said:
jammy-git said:
Brendan Rodgers was technically backed by FSG. .
What you saying here though? are you comparing him to something or have I missed something?I just think Ed gets the flack and from what I see there issues are the scouting and managers, he has backed loads of managers, not his fault if the ones he signs are not up to scratch, he was just asked to sign them.
m3sye said:
franki68 said:
Tbh as long as Woodward is running the club united will be st regardless of manager ,we’d be in this position with Klopp with woody in charge .
Genuine question, why?t regardless of manager ,we’d be in this position with Klopp with woody in charge .He seems to back you whenever you want a player? Surely your scouts and managers have been to blame more?
Also do Klopp would never put up with something not working, like Ole would. He was desperate for the job and will just be a yes man for those above.
EDIT: Actually, reading back, I semi agree with Franki. I think if Klopp was in charge, Utd would be firmly in the top four. So they'd be much better than they currently are. But not challenging, or anywhere close.
franki68 said:
He gave jm a new contract mid contract and then didn’t support him transfer wise and then sacked him.
He gave ole a big contract when he absolutely didn’t need to ,the result of which was immediate.
He has overseen a compete failure of the medical and training staff ,for ten years the club have had excessive injuries.
There has been no investment in the stadium .OT now looks tired compared to a lot of other grounds .
He has on the other hand signed some fabulous sponsorship deals ,but how good are these deals if United aren’t in the champs league and continued absence will have a huge impact on it.
Fair points, I also question whether a signing policy exists as it seems to at Liverpool / under Klopp to ensure you get the right characters and profile irrespective of manager. Sanchez is the perfect example of a calamitous signing with red flags - disrupting the Arsenal dressing room, ran down his contract, poor performances, wage mercenary. United are now paying him £175k/week to not be there - why on earth was he signed?He gave ole a big contract when he absolutely didn’t need to ,the result of which was immediate.
He has overseen a compete failure of the medical and training staff ,for ten years the club have had excessive injuries.
There has been no investment in the stadium .OT now looks tired compared to a lot of other grounds .
He has on the other hand signed some fabulous sponsorship deals ,but how good are these deals if United aren’t in the champs league and continued absence will have a huge impact on it.
I can only see the Glazers firing Woodward if the revenue takes a hit (which looks increasingly likely) but even then, that could be blamed a series of managers not getting an expensively collated squad to gel.
franki68 said:
Several of the signings were down to woodward as I understand it,the managers consented but some were not their preferred choice.
You are all defending him because you know the truth and you want him to stay.
He gave jm a new contract mid contract and then didn’t support him transfer wise and then sacked him.
He gave ole a big contract when he absolutely didn’t need to ,the result of which was immediate.
He has overseen a compete failure of the medical and training staff ,for ten years the club have had excessive injuries.
There has been no investment in the stadium .OT now looks tired compared to a lot of other grounds .
He has on the other hand signed some fabulous sponsorship deals ,but how good are these deals if United aren’t in the champs league and continued absence will have a huge impact on it.
Having watched Leicester and Chelsea I see no reason why United shouldn’t finish top 4 ,but having probably our best player and the 2 best players this season out with long term injuries we must be making signings now to ensure united finish top 4 is imperative ,
Not defending him for any reason just saying what I think, I doubt anyone at UTD reads pistonheads to decide if they keep Ed or not. You are all defending him because you know the truth and you want him to stay.
He gave jm a new contract mid contract and then didn’t support him transfer wise and then sacked him.
He gave ole a big contract when he absolutely didn’t need to ,the result of which was immediate.
He has overseen a compete failure of the medical and training staff ,for ten years the club have had excessive injuries.
There has been no investment in the stadium .OT now looks tired compared to a lot of other grounds .
He has on the other hand signed some fabulous sponsorship deals ,but how good are these deals if United aren’t in the champs league and continued absence will have a huge impact on it.
Having watched Leicester and Chelsea I see no reason why United shouldn’t finish top 4 ,but having probably our best player and the 2 best players this season out with long term injuries we must be making signings now to ensure united finish top 4 is imperative ,
Ultimately it's your club and you obviously know more, I just think blaming Ed ignores many obvious problems.
You've spent 100s millions but still need to spend 100s millions, that comes down to how you recruit players and the managers.
The revenue is taking a hit. For a good year or two now the revenues have stagnated and Woodward himself has already issued a shareholder notice to say that revenue and profits will be down next (this) year.
We had, what, half their revenue a year or two ago and in 12-24 months it look likely that we'll overtake them.
However, I guess the point you're making is that, as soon as the Glazers can no longer rinse the club of profits, that's when he'll be fired. I would have to agree, but I think it'll be many more years before they get to that point.
We had, what, half their revenue a year or two ago and in 12-24 months it look likely that we'll overtake them.
However, I guess the point you're making is that, as soon as the Glazers can no longer rinse the club of profits, that's when he'll be fired. I would have to agree, but I think it'll be many more years before they get to that point.
I do think Woodward has to take some of the flak - but maybe his buying policy has been influenced too much by managers coming in and saying "I want...".
From listening to pundits talk, LFC's recruitment is generally held up as an example of getting it spot on. It's not just Klopp doing great things, it's FSG and everyone behind the scenes too.
From listening to pundits talk, LFC's recruitment is generally held up as an example of getting it spot on. It's not just Klopp doing great things, it's FSG and everyone behind the scenes too.
Flip Martian said:
I do think Woodward has to take some of the flak - but maybe his buying policy has been influenced too much by managers coming in and saying "I want...".
From listening to pundits talk, LFC's recruitment is generally held up as an example of getting it spot on. It's not just Klopp doing great things, it's FSG and everyone behind the scenes too.
I agree, of course he has some blame, ie the giving away of ludicrous contracts etc but there is more than 1 person to blame at UTD. Get a team behind Ole like we have behind Klopp and I am sure you would see a different outcome.From listening to pundits talk, LFC's recruitment is generally held up as an example of getting it spot on. It's not just Klopp doing great things, it's FSG and everyone behind the scenes too.
Gets a manager. Manager buys players he wants. Manager doesn't deliver results quickly enough. Manager ejected.
Gets a manager. Manager inherits players the other manager wanted and wants his own players. Manager doesn't deliver results quickly enough. Manager ejected.
Gets a manager. Manager inherits two lots of players the other managers wanted and wants his own players. Etc etc.
If you bring in managers who want to play different systems/styles and want players specific to that then you have to give the process time. Otherwise you're just building a squad of mismatched, expensive players, you can' get off the books but don't perform.
FSG have a process which not many others appear to have.
Gets a manager. Manager inherits players the other manager wanted and wants his own players. Manager doesn't deliver results quickly enough. Manager ejected.
Gets a manager. Manager inherits two lots of players the other managers wanted and wants his own players. Etc etc.
If you bring in managers who want to play different systems/styles and want players specific to that then you have to give the process time. Otherwise you're just building a squad of mismatched, expensive players, you can' get off the books but don't perform.
FSG have a process which not many others appear to have.
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