The end of the cosy open fire?

[MrOrange]

Seems, not just content to kill off the V8, and most other ICE, we’re going to see the beginning of the end of open fires https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/feb/2...

No more house coal from next year, no more wet wood two years later. How long before even dry wood will be banned.

[Tasmin200]

The thing about this that really pisses me off is for a huge amount of users using coal and wood isn't a lifestyle choice, it's a necessity.

It doesn't affect me (yet) as I live in Scotland but I have no town gas and due to installation rules I can't put on oil or off grid gas. It would be cold or very expensive to heat my house.

[softtop]

The coal issue is big though they must still be thinking of smokeless as viable. It does not give out the same amount of heat though, just me?

Wood will still be available locally though will the suppliers of wood further up the chain be allowed or questioned as to why they are selling wood to previous log merchants?

[Pheo]

I thought the wet wood one was interesting; firstly do people really do that?! Secondly what happens to those who season their own?

[KAgantua]

Looks like it only bans/ restricts the sale of coal and wet wood

You could of course self cultivate either (The former might be trickier unless you have a mine on your curtilage!!)

Not sure how they would police 'wet' vs. 'dry' wood?

[jshell]

KAgantua said:

Not sure how they would police 'wet' vs. 'dry' wood?

That occured to me too.

[shtu]

"
Sales of wet wood in units of under two cubic metres will be restricted from February 2021, to allow for existing stocks to be used up.

Wet wood sold in larger volumes will need to be sold with advice on how to dry it before burning from this date, the government said.
"

2 cubic metres isn't a huge amount to buy and store.

[Equus]

edit: crossed with Shtu's post, above ^^^

Pheo said:

I thought the wet wood one was interesting; firstly do people really do that?! Secondly what happens to those who season their own?

From the article on the BBC News website this morning, they're saying only that sales of wet wood in quantities less than 2 cubic metres will be banned, and that over 2m3 it will need to come with guidance on how to season it.

I buy my timber in 4m3 loads, so basically it won't affect me.

It's a bit of a non-story, really.

[mikal83]

Pheo said:

I thought the wet wood one was interesting; firstly do people really do that?! Secondly what happens to those who season their own?

All our wood is seasoned for at least 2 years before we sell it within our community. This law is to stop the use of coal in open fires and the sale of those little bundles of wood you can buy at the petrol station. In the rural SW, a large % of heating/hot water is from oil.

[MrOrange]

Equus said:

It's a bit of a non-story, really.

Or the thin end of the wedge. There is (semi) serious talk about banning new gas connections for new builds and using leccy instead. It’s due to the carbon footprint, they say, so smokeless, oil and propane next?

Wood should be good, it’s naturally bio.

Or are we all going to be staring longingly into an LCD fire?

[kambites]

Equus said:

From the article on the BBC News website this morning, they're saying only that sales of wet wood in quantities less than 2 cubic metres will be banned, and that over 2m3 it will need to come with guidance on how to season it.

I buy my timber in 4m3 loads, so basically it won't affect me.

It's a bit of a non-story, really.

Seems a thoroughly sensible idea to me. I'd bet that most people buying small quantities of unseasoned firewood don't really know what they're buying and would be better off buying seasoned wood anyway. I suspect that side of it is as much about consumer protection as environmental concerns; unseasoned wood is a pig to burn.

As for coal, phasing that out is hardly a new thing. It's a horribly dirty fuel.

Edited by kambites on Friday 21st February 09:49

[kambites]

MrOrange said:

There is (semi) serious talk about banning new gas connections for new builds and using leccy instead. It’s due to the carbon footprint, they say, so smokeless, oil and propane next?

I think that's got to happen; I don't see how we can continue to rely on natural gas as our primary heat source if we're serious at net carbon neutrality by 2040 or whatever it is.

[bimsb6]

We only buy 2 small bags of coal a year so no impact to us and never buy wood ( its all scavenged) so no impact there either . We have oil ch ,that would be a pain although it would give me more workshop space when the tank was removed .

[Wacky Racer]

If you buy "kiln dried" wood from Aldi and such like, is that OK?

[jshell]

kambites said:

MrOrange said:

There is (semi) serious talk about banning new gas connections for new builds and using leccy instead. It’s due to the carbon footprint, they say, so smokeless, oil and propane next?

I think that's got to happen; I don't see how we can continue to rely on natural gas as our primary heat source if we're serious at net carbon neutrality by 2040 or whatever it is.

It's very serious talk and an absolute disaster in the making!

[Hoofy]

MrOrange said:

Equus said:

It's a bit of a non-story, really.

Or the thin end of the wedge. There is (semi) serious talk about banning new gas connections for new builds and using leccy instead. It’s due to the carbon footprint, they say, so smokeless, oil and propane next?

Wood should be good, it’s naturally bio.

Or are we all going to be staring longingly into an LCD fire?

Certainly, they are talking about how bad gas boilers are and burning wood releases CO2 and other gases and particles so I'm not surprised with this announcement. I mean, they will probably ban dry wood at some point.

[MrOrange]

jshell said:

It's very serious talk and an absolute disaster in the making!

Yeah, but we’re told the incremental cost of electricity is going to fall close to zero, and even go negative overnight ... doesn’t that make it a free resource? And a damn sight more attractive than nasty, poluting, cumbersome, inefficient, difficult to distribute, explosive gas 😇

[Equus]

[redacted]

[kambites]

Hoofy said:

Certainly, they are talking about how bad gas boilers are and burning wood releases CO2 and other gases and particles so I'm not surprised with this announcement. I mean, they will probably ban dry wood at some point.

If anything I'd expect them to subsidise dry wood at some point precisely because it's almost the only readily available carbon-neutral heating fuel. Of course it has a negative effect on localised air quality (which is actually the primary driving force behind this change), which makes things trickier.

Edited by kambites on Friday 21st February 10:39

[jshell]

MrOrange said:

Yeah, but we’re told the incremental cost of electricity is going to fall close to zero, and even go negative overnight ... doesn’t that make it a free resource? And a damn sight more attractive than nasty, poluting, cumbersome, inefficient, difficult to distribute, explosive gas ??

Here's the paper of nightmares: https://bbc.in/2UTHUC4

A utopian future, I don't think! Oh, and Free?

Gas is clean, efficient, transportable, plentiful, instant, storeable - leccy goes off, near impossible to store, tricky to cook with and needs huge prime movers 'somewhere'.