The Official Euro 2020 thread....
Discussion
ChocolateFrog said:
benm3evo said:
I'm going to be optimistic & say our (Gareth's) defensive tactics will be more suited against more attacking teams coming onto us & that will give us chances on the break with the likes of Sterling, Foden, Saka & Grealish.
Granted we'll still probably lose 4-2 but at least it won't be as boring! No, scratch that, it will suit our system & we'll win our next game! Optimism!
There's a good chance he won't play 3 of those players against a good team. Granted we'll still probably lose 4-2 but at least it won't be as boring! No, scratch that, it will suit our system & we'll win our next game! Optimism!
I thought Shaw looks decent going forward & Walker's got pace on the break.....but then who knows if those two will start either
Adam. said:
Antony Moxey said:
I'm pretty sure if six weeks ago we were told we'd top the group with seven points without conceding a goal, Scotland would finish bottom, we'd see decent match time (and performances) from Saka, Foden, Grealish and Mount, Sterling would continue his excellent international scoring form (is that now 14 goals in the last 19 games?) and we'd see Henderson and Maguire back after injury we'd all be quite pleased with that.
Of course. A bit selective though!If you also said we would only score two, be outplayed by Scotland, Kane looks like he is at 50% and we only look bright, creative and threatening in 20 of the 270 mins played maybe you would be less pleased.
It's interesting that my 'selective' post is pretty much entirely factual (other than my observation that Saka, Foden, Grealish and Mount delivered decent performances) whereas yours is pretty much entirely speculation (other than you stating we'd only scored twice).
Ntv said:
DaveyBoyWonder said:
Murph7355 said:
Made it out of the group, which is a bonus.
But I have no clue what Southgate's "tactics" are.
We only ever looked like pressing forwards when Saka, Grealish or Shaw were on the ball. Possibly even Stones, after Henderson came on (who you could see shouting at the back line telling them to push forwards).
Maguire is too slow for me. Mings was better with Stones, but Southgate took the latter off for him?!
Walker was OK, but I always thought Walker's big thing was being able to break up the wing. And he did none of that.
Rice was a complete waste of a player. We may as well have played with 10 as have him on the pitch.
And the same goes for Kane. He spent half the match in our own half, even when there were three or four other England players further up field. Something is not right with him - undoubtedly a good player when on it, but we cannot carry someone who's not there.
Sterling does more wrong than he does right. Tonight's goal was a good one, but it wasn't made by him at all.
Bellingham, Rashford and Sancho weren't on long enough to find anything out about them. Pointless subs.
Pickford at least didn't look like an accident in waiting most of the time (Walker chesting it to him would have been destined to nutmeg him on another day, and some of his footwork was iffy).
Philips had a great first game, battling and pushing forwards. Has done not very much in the last two. Almost looks like he wants to but daren't.
Playing this way that team will get battered by Germany or Portugal. France likely too. Basically any team that attacks and we'll end up with 10 players in our own 6yd box for most of the game, Kane likely being one of them, hoping the ball comes out and Sterling remembers which way he should be running and what with.
Brief flashes of the game show we can be dangerous. But they were way too brief.
Out in the next round. Italy or Germany to be eventual winners.
An decent summary. As a Leeds fan I keep an eye a lot on what Phillips is doing and you're right, after the first game where it seemed like he was given the freedom to roam around a bit, the following games feel as if he's been told not to move further than 10m into the opposition half, not to make any tackles and only pass to a player within 10m of him.But I have no clue what Southgate's "tactics" are.
We only ever looked like pressing forwards when Saka, Grealish or Shaw were on the ball. Possibly even Stones, after Henderson came on (who you could see shouting at the back line telling them to push forwards).
Maguire is too slow for me. Mings was better with Stones, but Southgate took the latter off for him?!
Walker was OK, but I always thought Walker's big thing was being able to break up the wing. And he did none of that.
Rice was a complete waste of a player. We may as well have played with 10 as have him on the pitch.
And the same goes for Kane. He spent half the match in our own half, even when there were three or four other England players further up field. Something is not right with him - undoubtedly a good player when on it, but we cannot carry someone who's not there.
Sterling does more wrong than he does right. Tonight's goal was a good one, but it wasn't made by him at all.
Bellingham, Rashford and Sancho weren't on long enough to find anything out about them. Pointless subs.
Pickford at least didn't look like an accident in waiting most of the time (Walker chesting it to him would have been destined to nutmeg him on another day, and some of his footwork was iffy).
Philips had a great first game, battling and pushing forwards. Has done not very much in the last two. Almost looks like he wants to but daren't.
Playing this way that team will get battered by Germany or Portugal. France likely too. Basically any team that attacks and we'll end up with 10 players in our own 6yd box for most of the game, Kane likely being one of them, hoping the ball comes out and Sterling remembers which way he should be running and what with.
Brief flashes of the game show we can be dangerous. But they were way too brief.
Out in the next round. Italy or Germany to be eventual winners.
I don't like Maguire - his arrogance to get the ball and try and run it all the way into the opposition penalty area will cost us. I don't like Mings either but he's extremely effective at what he does - defend.
Did Rice touch the ball? What does Sterling offer apart from two goals which were entirely made for him. Arguably he should have taken it around the keeper or smashed it under him in the first few minutes last night but went for a lob. I know pundits keep telling us how amazing Bellingham is but I've seen absolutely zero to convince me of anything so far.
Southgate doesn't have a clue what his best lineup is. If it were me...
Pickford
Walker Mings Stones Trippier
Phillips
Saka Mount Henderson Grealish
Foden
Kane
TBH I think England have gone backwards since 2018. Southgate, I agree, just doesn't seem to know his best team.
Walker was incredibly negative last night.
Agree with Tripps back in. And I'd play that midfield you suggest as at least is should be positive.
PurpleTurtle said:
My big worry is Harry Kane. He might be top scorer in the Prem, but I haven't seen anything in these last three group games to justify his selection, completely anonymous. In my view it was a huge mistake to leave Ollie Watkins out of the squad - I am biased in this as a Villa fan - but he's got a great record in his first season in the Prem, and his game is all about beating defences with his pace, rather than goal-hanging for a tap in like Kane seems to want to do.
I agree about Watkins, but I'm biased being a Brentford fan!I would have taken Ollie instead of Calvert-Lewin as Ollie offers a lot more than CL does.....IMHO.....you only have to look at the assists.
CL scored 16 goals, zero assists.
Watkins scored 14 goals with 5 assists.
Bamford would have been on my list ahead of CL as well, with his 17 goals and 7 assists.
Both would offer what Kane does if Kane couldn't play, CL doesn't.
aeropilot said:
PurpleTurtle said:
My big worry is Harry Kane. He might be top scorer in the Prem, but I haven't seen anything in these last three group games to justify his selection, completely anonymous. In my view it was a huge mistake to leave Ollie Watkins out of the squad - I am biased in this as a Villa fan - but he's got a great record in his first season in the Prem, and his game is all about beating defences with his pace, rather than goal-hanging for a tap in like Kane seems to want to do.
I agree about Watkins, but I'm biased being a Brentford fan!I would have taken Ollie instead of Calvert-Lewin as Ollie offers a lot more than CL does.....IMHO.....you only have to look at the assists.
CL scored 16 goals, zero assists.
Watkins scored 14 goals with 5 assists.
Bamford would have been on my list ahead of CL as well, with his 17 goals and 7 assists.
Both would offer what Kane does if Kane couldn't play, CL doesn't.
I still would have liked to at least seen JWP in the squad, if not in one of the holding DM roles. Kane, Grealish, Foden, Sterling, Saka, Sancho etc are all capable of taking a man on and drawing a foul. JWP has the best FK conversion rate since OPTA stats began in 2003. Averaging just under 1 in 5 career and 1 in 3 last season. England have scored 3 FKs in the last 6 years; Rooney, Dier and Trippier. So one retired, one unselected and one not starting. I think he's a big ommission.
48k said:
PurpleTurtle said:
48k said:
CustardOnChips said:
JmatthewB said:
I disagree with the comments about England being too negative and not pressing forwards enough and too slow in the build up. Some of our best moments last night came after a spell of possession in our own half and waiting for one of their midfielders to come out then we played it into the vacated space for Grealish or Saka and we're away.
I know it's a bit joyless when we get a corner and it ends up back with our goalkeeper, but that's because the Czech defenders cleared the first phase. It's better to maintain possession after the initial clearance rather than try a 'hollywood' ball, lose possession and leave ourselves vulnerable to a counter-attack.
Playing more direct will just give the opposition more of the ball and we lose control of the game. This exact thing happened in the 2018 semi-final second half, we started to get nervous, abandoned our slow-build up play and started hitting it long, lost the ball and Croatia dominated us.
Spot on. I know it's a bit joyless when we get a corner and it ends up back with our goalkeeper, but that's because the Czech defenders cleared the first phase. It's better to maintain possession after the initial clearance rather than try a 'hollywood' ball, lose possession and leave ourselves vulnerable to a counter-attack.
Playing more direct will just give the opposition more of the ball and we lose control of the game. This exact thing happened in the 2018 semi-final second half, we started to get nervous, abandoned our slow-build up play and started hitting it long, lost the ball and Croatia dominated us.
Edited by JmatthewB on Wednesday 23 June 09:09
It will be a different proposition against a team who will come at us. There will be a lot more space to play in in the final 3rd
PurpleTurtle said:
48k said:
CustardOnChips said:
JmatthewB said:
I disagree with the comments about England being too negative and not pressing forwards enough and too slow in the build up. Some of our best moments last night came after a spell of possession in our own half and waiting for one of their midfielders to come out then we played it into the vacated space for Grealish or Saka and we're away.
I know it's a bit joyless when we get a corner and it ends up back with our goalkeeper, but that's because the Czech defenders cleared the first phase. It's better to maintain possession after the initial clearance rather than try a 'hollywood' ball, lose possession and leave ourselves vulnerable to a counter-attack.
Playing more direct will just give the opposition more of the ball and we lose control of the game. This exact thing happened in the 2018 semi-final second half, we started to get nervous, abandoned our slow-build up play and started hitting it long, lost the ball and Croatia dominated us.
Spot on. I know it's a bit joyless when we get a corner and it ends up back with our goalkeeper, but that's because the Czech defenders cleared the first phase. It's better to maintain possession after the initial clearance rather than try a 'hollywood' ball, lose possession and leave ourselves vulnerable to a counter-attack.
Playing more direct will just give the opposition more of the ball and we lose control of the game. This exact thing happened in the 2018 semi-final second half, we started to get nervous, abandoned our slow-build up play and started hitting it long, lost the ball and Croatia dominated us.
Edited by JmatthewB on Wednesday 23 June 09:09
It will be a different proposition against a team who will come at us. There will be a lot more space to play in in the final 3rd
PurpleTurtle said:
My big worry is Harry Kane. He might be top scorer in the Prem, but I haven't seen anything in these last three group games to justify his selection, completely anonymous.
I don't know how people can say Kane is completely anonymous and keep a straight face. 
Last night for example he had two shots saved, fed Shaw who put Sterling in to hit the post, and held it up / laid it off to Grealish for the cross for the goal, and countless other examples during the game where he held it up / played others in. Unfortunately he's on a poor goalscoring run for England something like 2 in the last 11 games and that's attracting a lot of negativity. I'm not sure the likes of DCL put in the hard yards for the rest of the team when it's not going for them in the same way Kane does.CustardOnChips said:
48k said:
PurpleTurtle said:
48k said:
CustardOnChips said:
JmatthewB said:
I disagree with the comments about England being too negative and not pressing forwards enough and too slow in the build up. Some of our best moments last night came after a spell of possession in our own half and waiting for one of their midfielders to come out then we played it into the vacated space for Grealish or Saka and we're away.
I know it's a bit joyless when we get a corner and it ends up back with our goalkeeper, but that's because the Czech defenders cleared the first phase. It's better to maintain possession after the initial clearance rather than try a 'hollywood' ball, lose possession and leave ourselves vulnerable to a counter-attack.
Playing more direct will just give the opposition more of the ball and we lose control of the game. This exact thing happened in the 2018 semi-final second half, we started to get nervous, abandoned our slow-build up play and started hitting it long, lost the ball and Croatia dominated us.
Spot on. I know it's a bit joyless when we get a corner and it ends up back with our goalkeeper, but that's because the Czech defenders cleared the first phase. It's better to maintain possession after the initial clearance rather than try a 'hollywood' ball, lose possession and leave ourselves vulnerable to a counter-attack.
Playing more direct will just give the opposition more of the ball and we lose control of the game. This exact thing happened in the 2018 semi-final second half, we started to get nervous, abandoned our slow-build up play and started hitting it long, lost the ball and Croatia dominated us.
Edited by JmatthewB on Wednesday 23 June 09:09
It will be a different proposition against a team who will come at us. There will be a lot more space to play in in the final 3rd
48k said:
I don't know how people can say Kane is completely anonymous and keep a straight face. Last night for example he had two shots saved, fed Shaw who put Sterling in to hit the post, and held it up / laid it off to Grealish for the cross for the goal, and countless other examples during the game where he held it up / played others in. Unfortunately he's on a poor goalscoring run for England something like 2 in the last 11 games and that's attracting a lot of negativity. I'm not sure the likes of DCL put in the hard yards for the rest of the team when it's not going for them in the same way Kane does.
I think many people - not necessarily on here but on phone ins etc. - simply surmise that "very few goals => must be Kane's fault" and demand that someone else be tried. Funny how players who aren't playing (such as Calvert-Lewin) suddenly become the answer. Form is temporary, class is permanent and I think Southgate will stick with Kane; rightly so in my opinion. Last night for example he had two shots saved, fed Shaw who put Sterling in to hit the post, and held it up / laid it off to Grealish for the cross for the goal, and countless other examples during the game where he held it up / played others in. Unfortunately he's on a poor goalscoring run for England something like 2 in the last 11 games and that's attracting a lot of negativity. I'm not sure the likes of DCL put in the hard yards for the rest of the team when it's not going for them in the same way Kane does.We've played cautiously against three teams who were rather negative themselves. With a bit of luck, the three efforts that hit the post could easily have gone in. We only picked up one yellow card. We get to stay at Wembley. We've won the group with no goals conceded. I agree it hasn't been thrilling, but I'm more than satisfied personally.
Last night was abysmal IMHO. Things improved when Saka and Henderson were on the pitch. I don't know what is wrong with Kane but he looks slow and has lost his touch.
My starting 11 next game would be:
Pickford
Trippier, Maguire, Henderson, Shaw
Saka, Phillips, Grealish
Foden, Calvert Lewin, Sterling
We have only scored twice and Sterling has both of them.
My starting 11 next game would be:
Pickford
Trippier, Maguire, Henderson, Shaw
Saka, Phillips, Grealish
Foden, Calvert Lewin, Sterling
We have only scored twice and Sterling has both of them.
Antony Moxey said:
PurpleTurtle said:
In my view it was a huge mistake to leave Ollie Watkins out of the squad - I am biased in this as a Villa fan
As an aside, and as an Exeter City fan Ollie Watkins is the gift that just keeps giving. £1.8M from his transfer to Brentford, then another (I think) £5+M from his transfer to Villa, then a six figure sum from his England debut, then a five figure sum from his appearance in the warm up game. It seems every five minutes we're trousering another hefty wedge thanks to Ollie's exploits, which to a club like ours really is invaluable.They will when he gets to play in Europe.
Edited by The Hypno-Toad on Wednesday 23 June 12:40
It would be good to see Sancho play a minute and see if he's anywhere as good as the hype he gets.Antony Moxey said:
Adam. said:
Antony Moxey said:
I'm pretty sure if six weeks ago we were told we'd top the group with seven points without conceding a goal, Scotland would finish bottom, we'd see decent match time (and performances) from Saka, Foden, Grealish and Mount, Sterling would continue his excellent international scoring form (is that now 14 goals in the last 19 games?) and we'd see Henderson and Maguire back after injury we'd all be quite pleased with that.
Of course. A bit selective though!If you also said we would only score two, be outplayed by Scotland, Kane looks like he is at 50% and we only look bright, creative and threatening in 20 of the 270 mins played maybe you would be less pleased.
It's interesting that my 'selective' post is pretty much entirely factual (other than my observation that Saka, Foden, Grealish and Mount delivered decent performances) whereas yours is pretty much entirely speculation (other than you stating we'd only scored twice).
At least we left your goals in place this time.
DaveyBoyWonder said:
An decent summary. As a Leeds fan I keep an eye a lot on what Phillips is doing and you're right, after the first game where it seemed like he was given the freedom to roam around a bit, the following games feel as if he's been told not to move further than 10m into the opposition half, not to make any tackles and only pass to a player within 10m of him.
We saw a little more of the Kalvin we have at Leeds after Rice went off for Henderson, with a few decent passes over the top but it still seemed restrained under England's system. CustardOnChips said:
Yet we won and didn't concede a goal. Meaningless stat is meaninglessness.
Whilst I agree it would be nicer to try to play forward a bit more, what I'm hearing on here is a style of play we had in the Graham Taylor era. Get Carlton Palmer to hit it long for Big Les and hope Platty can get on the end of knock down. That'll work. Gassing Station | Football | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff