Dampers- again
Discussion
Hi all, my Gaz shocks are due a rebuild but I'm wondering whether to just replace them entirely.
I've looked through several threads but all seem a bit out of date, is the concensus still that nitron is the best option, followed by Gaz gold Pro? Have never had the car on track but need to change this!!
Thanks,
TC
I've looked through several threads but all seem a bit out of date, is the concensus still that nitron is the best option, followed by Gaz gold Pro? Have never had the car on track but need to change this!!
Thanks,
TC
Cost no object, your best options are Intrax or Ohlins which would be where I'd be looking if I was after a transformative change - which will also need the highest level of set up/alignment care and expertise to make your investment worthwhile.
The next tier probably consists of Nitron (lacking in refinement a bit for road use compared to the former two) and KW (probably more geared for German/Continental roads).
The fit and forget/ 'a road test engineer has been here before you and determined the optimum settings' solution would be Bilsteins from Ben Lang, which have been developed by Lang and Bilstein's road test driver back when Smolensky held the purse strings in Blackpool - surely one of his better ideas.
Below that level, you're looking at short term solutions to get you out of a hole replacing completely shagged original dampers, or specific applications (you want adjustable suspension for trackdays but can't afford the really good stuff) IMHO.
The next tier probably consists of Nitron (lacking in refinement a bit for road use compared to the former two) and KW (probably more geared for German/Continental roads).
The fit and forget/ 'a road test engineer has been here before you and determined the optimum settings' solution would be Bilsteins from Ben Lang, which have been developed by Lang and Bilstein's road test driver back when Smolensky held the purse strings in Blackpool - surely one of his better ideas.
Below that level, you're looking at short term solutions to get you out of a hole replacing completely shagged original dampers, or specific applications (you want adjustable suspension for trackdays but can't afford the really good stuff) IMHO.
Cost no object these would be the way I'd go: https://tractivesuspension.com/product-category/ca... I went through a similar thing as you recently and ended up with new Gaz gold Pros with stiffer springs.
Initially not over impressed as it felt too firm and not very compliant. However after a few hundred miles of bedding in they are really good and over fast undulating roads they really come into their own.
One criticism I do have though is the tendency to 'skip' on slower bumpy corners. Apparently Gaz Monos are a step on in this respect. So despite trying to sell them at the time in order to upgrade to Tractive for the price I'm now happy to stay with Gaz.
Initially not over impressed as it felt too firm and not very compliant. However after a few hundred miles of bedding in they are really good and over fast undulating roads they really come into their own.
One criticism I do have though is the tendency to 'skip' on slower bumpy corners. Apparently Gaz Monos are a step on in this respect. So despite trying to sell them at the time in order to upgrade to Tractive for the price I'm now happy to stay with Gaz.
s6boy said:
Cost no object these would be the way I'd go: https://tractivesuspension.com/product-category/ca... I went through a similar thing as you recently and ended up with new Gaz gold Pros with stiffer springs.
Initially not over impressed as it felt too firm and not very compliant. However after a few hundred miles of bedding in they are really good and over fast undulating roads they really come into their own.
One criticism I do have though is the tendency to 'skip' on slower bumpy corners. Apparently Gaz Monos are a step on in this respect. So despite trying to sell them at the time in order to upgrade to Tractive for the price I'm now happy to stay with Gaz.
Having fitted tractive the ride quality is something else compared to Nitrons, Initially not over impressed as it felt too firm and not very compliant. However after a few hundred miles of bedding in they are really good and over fast undulating roads they really come into their own.
One criticism I do have though is the tendency to 'skip' on slower bumpy corners. Apparently Gaz Monos are a step on in this respect. So despite trying to sell them at the time in order to upgrade to Tractive for the price I'm now happy to stay with Gaz.
Standard Nitrons are not valved very well especially the rebound valving is way to stiff not letting the spring respond quickly enough.
The basic quality of the damper is excellent however so I got mine from Meteor Motorsport in Wales who are a Nitron Approved Paertner but they dyno test each damper to the spring setting you want and valve it accordingly.
Mine were done at a rebuild and the ride and handling of the car is massively improved compared to the normal Nitrons all for the same price.
OP give them a call and talk to them.
The basic quality of the damper is excellent however so I got mine from Meteor Motorsport in Wales who are a Nitron Approved Paertner but they dyno test each damper to the spring setting you want and valve it accordingly.
Mine were done at a rebuild and the ride and handling of the car is massively improved compared to the normal Nitrons all for the same price.
OP give them a call and talk to them.
Back in the day when I was doing a lot of tvr nitron sales I would sometimes drive down to witney with a car and take the dampers off, ben would rebuild them with different valving and i would hoon off round the local roads and report back .. take the dampers off again and ben would tweak some more (it's a black art!) .. that was back when there was only Guy and Ben there .. Nitron is a mega big concern now and it sounds like the way to go now is via meteor who sound like they would offer a similar personalised service maybe ?
gruffalo said:
Standard Nitrons are not valved very well especially the rebound valving is way to stiff not letting the spring respond quickly enough.
The basic quality of the damper is excellent however so I got mine from Meteor Motorsport in Wales who are a Nitron Approved Paertner but they dyno test each damper to the spring setting you want and valve it accordingly.
Mine were done at a rebuild and the ride and handling of the car is massively improved compared to the normal Nitrons all for the same price.
OP give them a call and talk to them.
By standard, do you mean common bump and rebound adjuster rather than separate? When you bought the nitrous, did you advise spring rates?The basic quality of the damper is excellent however so I got mine from Meteor Motorsport in Wales who are a Nitron Approved Paertner but they dyno test each damper to the spring setting you want and valve it accordingly.
Mine were done at a rebuild and the ride and handling of the car is massively improved compared to the normal Nitrons all for the same price.
OP give them a call and talk to them.
With many dampers the valving can often be tailored more digressive otherwise if you aren't running high spring rates (as road cars tend no to) you can end up with the car either jacking down or pattering over rough surfaces especially if you are one of those owners who thinks stiffer is better (oo er) . Less rebound at high piston speeds often improves matters significantly. Do you know what meteor do with the nominally standard nitron valving to improve it on your car Gruffalo ?
Wow a lot of responses, thanks, I was assuming there would be a standard opinion of best, middle and worst but seem to be a lot of options!
I'm slowly building a track car which I am planning on spending "proper" money on for a good and very adjustable set up, however I was hoping for a lazy "comfortable" option for the Tuscan... wishful thinking maybe!
It doesn't get taken on track, just hoping for something to let it ride the rough roads a bit better than the old Gaz units fitted that undoubtedly need attention anyway.
I'm slowly building a track car which I am planning on spending "proper" money on for a good and very adjustable set up, however I was hoping for a lazy "comfortable" option for the Tuscan... wishful thinking maybe!
It doesn't get taken on track, just hoping for something to let it ride the rough roads a bit better than the old Gaz units fitted that undoubtedly need attention anyway.
spitfire4v8 said:
With many dampers the valving can often be tailored more digressive otherwise if you aren't running high spring rates (as road cars tend no to) you can end up with the car either jacking down or pattering over rough surfaces especially if you are one of those owners who thinks stiffer is better (oo er) . Less rebound at high piston speeds often improves matters significantly. Do you know what meteor do with the nominally standard nitron valving to improve it on your car Gruffalo ?
Look at race shocks which is I think the new name for metor for dampers for the TVR, there is also a good write up on choosing a shock, the nitrons he offerers with digressive valves which come at a cost but are well worth it. He also rebuilds nitrons, as well as selling nitrons sells the tractive suspension 
Edited by hoofa on Friday 28th May 06:47
topcat1 said:
Wow a lot of responses, thanks, I was assuming there would be a standard opinion of best, middle and worst but seem to be a lot of options!
I'm slowly building a track car which I am planning on spending "proper" money on for a good and very adjustable set up, however I was hoping for a lazy "comfortable" option for the Tuscan... wishful thinking maybe!
It doesn't get taken on track, just hoping for something to let it ride the rough roads a bit better than the old Gaz units fitted that undoubtedly need attention anyway.
For a road only car I'd look at the bilstiens. There are two main options (or were) over the stock Tuscan fittings. I'm slowly building a track car which I am planning on spending "proper" money on for a good and very adjustable set up, however I was hoping for a lazy "comfortable" option for the Tuscan... wishful thinking maybe!
It doesn't get taken on track, just hoping for something to let it ride the rough roads a bit better than the old Gaz units fitted that undoubtedly need attention anyway.
1st the Tuscan S bilstien s, this came with increased rear spring rate to 50Nmm (from memory) . I still found that spring rate a little too soft for local roads on my T350C and could bottom it out easily.
2nd Sagaris factory Bilstiens, these have longer and more progressive bump rubbers so the sudden transition on to the bump rubber being compressed is lessened, you coud also look at stiffer spring options for these though I'd stick with close to the original factory front spring rates rather than the stiff Sagaris front rate . Both the bilstien options have lovely bump compliance damping so dont feel harsh like a track damper can which has no need for lower speed ride comfort from my experience . Ben Lang @blackdown automotive may be a good chap to chat to about the billies and springs . PS if your local roads dont undulate too much then the Tuscan S rear rate may work for you.
Cheers, there are a mixture of defects on the roads around me! There are some lovely smooth sections which are great, but a couple of local roads (including an old airstrip unfortunately) have a really rough surface that means it is hard to get traction both pulling and stopping, my favorite road on my commute has a smooth surface but is uneven and if going fast the exhaust would touch the road pretty much from start to finish.
Because of this I'm not fussed about track-ability and would rather have a more pleasant drive when I go out locally!
Because of this I'm not fussed about track-ability and would rather have a more pleasant drive when I go out locally!
fredd1e said:
For a road only car I'd look at the bilstiens. There are two main options (or were) over the stock Tuscan fittings.
1st the Tuscan S bilstien s, this came with increased rear spring rate to 50Nmm (from memory) . I still found that spring rate a little too soft for local roads on my T350C and could bottom it out easily.
2nd Sagaris factory Bilstiens, these have longer and more progressive bump rubbers so the sudden transition on to the bump rubber being compressed is lessened, you coud also look at stiffer spring options for these though I'd stick with close to the original factory front spring rates rather than the stiff Sagaris front rate . Both the bilstien options have lovely bump compliance damping so dont feel harsh like a track damper can which has no need for lower speed ride comfort from my experience . Ben Lang @blackdown automotive may be a good chap to chat to about the billies and springs . PS if your local roads dont undulate too much then the Tuscan S rear rate may work for you.
Have made contact with Ben 1st the Tuscan S bilstien s, this came with increased rear spring rate to 50Nmm (from memory) . I still found that spring rate a little too soft for local roads on my T350C and could bottom it out easily.
2nd Sagaris factory Bilstiens, these have longer and more progressive bump rubbers so the sudden transition on to the bump rubber being compressed is lessened, you coud also look at stiffer spring options for these though I'd stick with close to the original factory front spring rates rather than the stiff Sagaris front rate . Both the bilstien options have lovely bump compliance damping so dont feel harsh like a track damper can which has no need for lower speed ride comfort from my experience . Ben Lang @blackdown automotive may be a good chap to chat to about the billies and springs . PS if your local roads dont undulate too much then the Tuscan S rear rate may work for you.
Minor update, I finally removed all units last night and decided to drop them in to Gaz for servicing. One of the rears has definitely been leaking from the adjuster, and it turns out they are all PRO's. Gaz are only 30 minutes down the road from me and it seemed like the logical thing to do first else I wouldn't have any experience of them in "proper" condition.
The front springs are 400lb, the rears are only 300lb which seem very soft to me and it tallies with my complaint of the car bottoming out on lumpy roads. I've asked Gaz for a pair of 350lb springs for the rears- does this sound like a wise decision?
If the car is disappointing when it's back on the road I will look at changing the shocks but need to establish ground zero first!
The front springs are 400lb, the rears are only 300lb which seem very soft to me and it tallies with my complaint of the car bottoming out on lumpy roads. I've asked Gaz for a pair of 350lb springs for the rears- does this sound like a wise decision?
If the car is disappointing when it's back on the road I will look at changing the shocks but need to establish ground zero first!
I've just got a set of Gaz GHA back from refurb and have fitted 450lb front 400lb rear springs. I'd set the adjusters to 10 clicks from soft at the front and 14 at the rear and had 1 short drive. Seems way better than the pre refurb shocks with standard 400 front 325 rear springs. They bottomed out on the rear all the time.
I seem to recall that 450 front and 400 rear is what S cars had but may be wrong, it may be prudent to try the same but the front hasn't concerned me too much. Not sure if staying softer will help the ride on some of the rougher roads or if this simplistic way of thinking is actually wrong!
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