6m remote workers could lose their jobs to offshoring
Discussion
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/remote-worki...
I called this out over a year ago as a real threat and the majority of people seemed to dismiss this concern as negativity. Well let's see, because as I've already begun to witness, this process has already started. Seems inevitable to me given most companies only care about money and not people.
I called this out over a year ago as a real threat and the majority of people seemed to dismiss this concern as negativity. Well let's see, because as I've already begun to witness, this process has already started. Seems inevitable to me given most companies only care about money and not people.
In their top 10 Anywhere Jobs they include…. Postal and courier activities 
And also Fortunately for the UK, there is nothing inherent about Anywhere Jobs that means they will be offshored, either immediately or over time
It would appear to be the usual game of finding a headline from a rather mundane report.
And also Fortunately for the UK, there is nothing inherent about Anywhere Jobs that means they will be offshored, either immediately or over time
It would appear to be the usual game of finding a headline from a rather mundane report.
TameRacingDriver said:
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/remote-worki...
I called this out over a year ago as a real threat and the majority of people seemed to dismiss this concern as negativity. Well let's see, because as I've already begun to witness, this process has already started. Seems inevitable to me given most companies only care about money and not people.
If it happens then it was always going to happen, firms look for lowest cost biggest return. But if your market (UK) has no customers (due to jobs) then its sort if self defeating.I called this out over a year ago as a real threat and the majority of people seemed to dismiss this concern as negativity. Well let's see, because as I've already begun to witness, this process has already started. Seems inevitable to me given most companies only care about money and not people.
Its a scare story and always will be sure some more firms will off shore and people will have to adapt.
TameRacingDriver said:
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/remote-worki...
I called this out over a year ago as a real threat and the majority of people seemed to dismiss this concern as negativity. Well let's see, because as I've already begun to witness, this process has already started. Seems inevitable to me given most companies only care about money and not people.
Person in UK loses job. Person in India gains job. It's hardly the company's fault that the global circumstances are what they are.I called this out over a year ago as a real threat and the majority of people seemed to dismiss this concern as negativity. Well let's see, because as I've already begun to witness, this process has already started. Seems inevitable to me given most companies only care about money and not people.
The alternative is that the company keeps all its expensive UK staff, global competition kills the inefficient company, all the UK staff lose their jobs.
We can't put this back in the bottle. We need to develop expertise in things that we can do in the UK that others can't do or won't do. Specialise.
Captain Raymond Holt said:
It’s worth noting, as India is mentioned, that they get paid more than just pennies these days. Ain’t so cheap.
Not much more. I use an Indian resource and I pay maybe 20% of what I would have to pay over here, for work of comparable quality. I can employ a qualified design engineer there for £14/hr, which includes 50% for the agency providing him. So £7/hr, for an office baased engineer, with computer, software, and working to UK time. It is crazy cheap. First thing, click link and it says 'Tony Blair Institute' not a good start 
People going into an office will 'magically' save that job from being made redundant or put elsewhere on the globe? really? If the company decides the job is going or gone then it is offski and it does not matter whether the current employee is on their sofa, in the office or on the fecking moon.
What a load of cobblers.
So many in positions of power who might lose money because of it are all too keen to demonize home working - but for the normal working man/woman in the street it offers fantastic work/life balance and freedoms that were up until recently hitherto unknown in the workplace for many.
The genie is out of the bottle, home-working is here to stay (in whatever forms it may take) and peeps better start getting used to it.
People going into an office will 'magically' save that job from being made redundant or put elsewhere on the globe? really? If the company decides the job is going or gone then it is offski and it does not matter whether the current employee is on their sofa, in the office or on the fecking moon.
What a load of cobblers.
So many in positions of power who might lose money because of it are all too keen to demonize home working - but for the normal working man/woman in the street it offers fantastic work/life balance and freedoms that were up until recently hitherto unknown in the workplace for many.
The genie is out of the bottle, home-working is here to stay (in whatever forms it may take) and peeps better start getting used to it.
Captain Raymond Holt said:
It’s worth noting, as India is mentioned, that they get paid more than just pennies these days. Ain’t so cheap.
This is true- the wage arbitrage play has been steadily eroded since we started our Indian centre over a decade ago. We have others elsewhere but the same applies- we're seeing staff get poached from our Manila centre on 25%+ uplifts, some as high as 100%.I've been doing this dance for 15 years, always seeing the roles below me go offshore and often playing my part in making that happen. But I'm under no doubt that all we've been doing is building a talent pool that will likely take my own position at some point. Just about the only thing that is keeping people like me in place is the fabled "business proximity" and the fact that senior execs want at least some people nearby.
Zlat502 said:
First thing, click link and it says 'Tony Blair Institute' not a good start
People going into an office will 'magically' save that job from being made redundant or put elsewhere on the globe? really? If the company decides the job is going or gone then it is offski and it does not matter whether the current employee is on their sofa, in the office or on the fecking moon.
What a load of cobblers.
So many in positions of power who might lose money because of it are all too keen to demonize home working - but for the normal working man/woman in the street it offers fantastic work/life balance and freedoms that were up until recently hitherto unknown in the workplace for many.
The genie is out of the bottle, home-working is here to stay (in whatever forms it may take) and peeps better start getting used to it.
Increased home working may be fantastic, and may be here to stay, but there will either be a salary correction or an increased move to cheaper labour locations wherever possible. Organisations aren't going to continue paying salaries with things like "London weighting" to people who no longer incur the expense of traveling to and working in the city. I would be happy to take that hit and accept a much improved quality of life, but India won in the end. I politely declined the offer to relocate there People going into an office will 'magically' save that job from being made redundant or put elsewhere on the globe? really? If the company decides the job is going or gone then it is offski and it does not matter whether the current employee is on their sofa, in the office or on the fecking moon.
What a load of cobblers.
So many in positions of power who might lose money because of it are all too keen to demonize home working - but for the normal working man/woman in the street it offers fantastic work/life balance and freedoms that were up until recently hitherto unknown in the workplace for many.
The genie is out of the bottle, home-working is here to stay (in whatever forms it may take) and peeps better start getting used to it.
Our company did this years ago in a way to save money. A huge number of call centre and tech roles moved across to India, which initially worked well they eventually realised a large number had to come back to the UK for various reasons.
This is not a new thing, companies have been doing it for years to maximise profits and ensure they can use cheap workforce when possible.
This is not a new thing, companies have been doing it for years to maximise profits and ensure they can use cheap workforce when possible.
Particularly in financial services there a huge number of foreign companies operating in the UK ... i.e. they've already chosen to employ people outside their domicile and they've chosen the UK. The customers that are being serviced from the UK are also non-UK / global businesses. A huge number of these jobs were already "do anywhere jobs" and were already being done "anywhere so long as it is in an office".
The UK was already competing in a global jobs market and was already doing pretty well. Little changes internationally because of covid.
The changes are more likely to be domestic. Do you have to go to a city centre to do your job? Particularly, do you need to be in the South East in shooting distance of London? WFH => no, you don't.
Will this be disruptive? Yes. Is it a good thing? Yes. It represents a big productivity boost to the economy as a whole because it allows a lot of time to be freed up from unproductive activity (e.g. commuting) and allows us to avoid spending a lot of money on unproductive stuff, e.g. expensive office space that we don't need, transport services that we don't need, expensive plastic-wrapped lunches, etc., etc
People can spend their time and money more productively. God knows, we've been desperately looking for a UK productivity boost. Well here's a great opportunity.
And it's good socially because it can break down the North-South and rural/city economic and social divides.
The UK versus overseas jobs story isn't about covid and working from home. It's about erecting barriers that discourage people from creating jobs in the UK ... i.e. it's Brexit.
The UK was already competing in a global jobs market and was already doing pretty well. Little changes internationally because of covid.
The changes are more likely to be domestic. Do you have to go to a city centre to do your job? Particularly, do you need to be in the South East in shooting distance of London? WFH => no, you don't.
Will this be disruptive? Yes. Is it a good thing? Yes. It represents a big productivity boost to the economy as a whole because it allows a lot of time to be freed up from unproductive activity (e.g. commuting) and allows us to avoid spending a lot of money on unproductive stuff, e.g. expensive office space that we don't need, transport services that we don't need, expensive plastic-wrapped lunches, etc., etc
People can spend their time and money more productively. God knows, we've been desperately looking for a UK productivity boost. Well here's a great opportunity.
And it's good socially because it can break down the North-South and rural/city economic and social divides.
The UK versus overseas jobs story isn't about covid and working from home. It's about erecting barriers that discourage people from creating jobs in the UK ... i.e. it's Brexit.
TameRacingDriver said:
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/remote-worki...
I called this out over a year ago as a real threat and the majority of people seemed to dismiss this concern as negativity. Well let's see, because as I've already begun to witness, this process has already started. Seems inevitable to me given most companies only care about money and not people.
On the plus side it does mean that UK graduates can apply for jobs elsewhere in the World. One of my son's mates has been offered a job working for Hewlett Packard based in Barcelona (he's based in Manchester)I called this out over a year ago as a real threat and the majority of people seemed to dismiss this concern as negativity. Well let's see, because as I've already begun to witness, this process has already started. Seems inevitable to me given most companies only care about money and not people.
basherX said:
Captain Raymond Holt said:
It’s worth noting, as India is mentioned, that they get paid more than just pennies these days. Ain’t so cheap.
This is true- the wage arbitrage play has been steadily eroded since we started our Indian centre over a decade ago. We have others elsewhere but the same applies- we're seeing staff get poached from our Manila centre on 25%+ uplifts, some as high as 100%.For anyone working in software/IT this has been reality for 20 years, other industries too I'm sure. In a previous life I had to support multiple attempts to offshore work to India, Malaysia, Ukraine and Poland. Nothing wrong with the workers there and I still have some friends, but over time it became obvious that only certain types of work are suitable for outsourcing. You can't outsource everything.
I've also been regularly home working for at least 15 years.
So when I read stories like this I just think that's life.
I've also been regularly home working for at least 15 years.
So when I read stories like this I just think that's life.
OpulentBob said:
basherX said:
Captain Raymond Holt said:
It’s worth noting, as India is mentioned, that they get paid more than just pennies these days. Ain’t so cheap.
This is true- the wage arbitrage play has been steadily eroded since we started our Indian centre over a decade ago. We have others elsewhere but the same applies- we're seeing staff get poached from our Manila centre on 25%+ uplifts, some as high as 100%.Then you find the terminology changes from offshoring to rightshoring
Challo said:
Our company did this years ago in a way to save money. A huge number of call centre and tech roles moved across to India, which initially worked well they eventually realised a large number had to come back to the UK for various reasons.
This is not a new thing, companies have been doing it for years to maximise profits and ensure they can use cheap workforce when possible.
Eastern Europe seems to be the current beneficiary of UK outsourcing of tech jobs.This is not a new thing, companies have been doing it for years to maximise profits and ensure they can use cheap workforce when possible.
Captain Raymond Holt said:
The frequent movement between employers and high uplifts (particularly over the last decade) are the reason it ain’t cheap cheap any more.
Then you find the terminology changes from offshoring to rightshoring
And the enormous staff churn that that engenders is, at least for us, one of the largest frustrations of offshoring...Then you find the terminology changes from offshoring to rightshoring
Echoing many posters in saying that this is not a new thing.
Going into the office doesn’t magically guarantee that your job is secure.
Talent is talent and resourcing it globally could be more competitive. On the flip side there are also number of people in the UK netting international jobs at a higher salary where it’s not possible without relocation.
Sure, some would be affected by the paradigm shift, but I wouldn’t say remote working equal massive jobs losses.
This has been going on for years for some roles, and now it’s clear that this is applicable to a wider audience.
Going into the office doesn’t magically guarantee that your job is secure.
Talent is talent and resourcing it globally could be more competitive. On the flip side there are also number of people in the UK netting international jobs at a higher salary where it’s not possible without relocation.
Sure, some would be affected by the paradigm shift, but I wouldn’t say remote working equal massive jobs losses.
This has been going on for years for some roles, and now it’s clear that this is applicable to a wider audience.
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