The Official Manchester United Thread (Vol 12)

[RoadRunner220]

Gargamel said:

If you boil it all down, the PSR rules presently prevent wealthy owners putting money into clubs. However they have done absolutely nothing to stop owners making Private Equity style deals to put debt on the clubs name and take cash out of the clubs.

The club has been hollowed out by the owners and profiit and sustainability has done absolutely nothing to stop it.

Very good point that, you're absolutely right.

[Gordon Hill]

I think in the summer the new recruitment team need to be on the ball, we'll find out if they're any good as they will need to unearth some gems with not much money to play with, sales will need to be made as well. We've been a disaster in the transfer market over the last decade.

Rasmus, Rashford, Sancho, Anthony, Onana, Malacia, Cas all need to be moved on for whatever we can get for them.

Edited by Gordon Hill on Monday 10th March 21:40

[greygoose]

bstb3 said:

interview with Ratcliffe on the overlap today. Very interesting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icljXo7qW2s

Club out of cash by Christmas without the cuts.

Just how much money have the Glazers bled out of the club or incurred in loan repayments?
I know some of the players are on ridiculous wages and the whole Ten Hag/Ashworth saga was a colossal waste of money but Ineos seems to be suffering financially and Grenadier has been a stshow finance wise, is Ratcliffe a saviour or just a delusional dreamer who is happy to sack minions?

[Gone a bit AMG]

brake fader said:

Gone a bit AMG said:

Just a bit ingrained in an anti owner stance I’d hope. Or thick as mince. Sadly probably the later as we are nowhere near qualifying for the Europa league for next season and if we win, it’s the champions league and all the revenue that brings. I’ve yet to meet a United fan that wants us to go out of business to suit their narrative.

What Radcliffe did today and how he spoke was long overdue.

You do realise he admitted to saving the glazers with his bid, they would have gone by now if it wasn't for him, or are you thick as mince.

Not sure I’ve seen the saving the glazers admission SJR made. Perhaps you can share it? Whilst you’re at it can you explain why the Glazers would be gone by now as I’m struggling with that as well given that they wouldn’t sell United in its entirety.

[J6542]

greygoose said:

Just how much money have the Glazers bled out of the club or incurred in loan repayments?
I know some of the players are on ridiculous wages and the whole Ten Hag/Ashworth saga was a colossal waste of money but Ineos seems to be suffering financially and Grenadier has been a stshow finance wise, is Ratcliffe a saviour or just a delusional dreamer who is happy to sack minions?

This, why would you pay all that money for a part share if the financials are so bad? He may be as deluded about us as he is about the car he built.

[Gone a bit AMG]

J6542 said:

greygoose said:

Just how much money have the Glazers bled out of the club or incurred in loan repayments?
I know some of the players are on ridiculous wages and the whole Ten Hag/Ashworth saga was a colossal waste of money but Ineos seems to be suffering financially and Grenadier has been a stshow finance wise, is Ratcliffe a saviour or just a delusional dreamer who is happy to sack minions?

This, why would you pay all that money for a part share if the financials are so bad? He may be as deluded about us as he is about the car he built.

Because the financials aren’t bad at all. That’s why he’s not deluded and a billionaire who has made a significant portion of his wealth turning round distressed assets. He’s thinking 6-7 years ahead unlike you.

[bstb3]

J6542 said:

This, why would you pay all that money for a part share if the financials are so bad? He may be as deluded about us as he is about the car he built.

well because he believes it's possible to turn it round. That will involve a lot of change, as it would at any failing enterprise - but clearly the potential is there. Top 3 revenue earning clubs in the world, of course it's worth it - it just needs proper management and, ultimately, a solution to the debt problem. We've just been run soo damn badly under the Glazers it's a big shock to the system needed to change it. Thats the logic and it makes sense.

Can his team do it? Time will tell, but the alternative was to let things continue and just go bump then maybe buy up the ashes, but by that time the club's assets would have been largely sold off / outsourced to preserve the Glazers. There didn't seem to be a credible plan for sustainability from the club (remember they were the ones getting us deeper into the mire each year) - which is why they were looking for investment. The only potential alternative buyers seemed to be a mysterious consortium from Qatar who may/may not have been state backed and never seemed to want to really openly engage on anything but their terms or some strange Norwegian dude.

I can understand people don't like the reality of where we are, or what it takes to turn it around, but it doesn't change the fact it is where we are now.

[Challo]

Gone a bit AMG said:

J6542 said:

greygoose said:

Just how much money have the Glazers bled out of the club or incurred in loan repayments?
I know some of the players are on ridiculous wages and the whole Ten Hag/Ashworth saga was a colossal waste of money but Ineos seems to be suffering financially and Grenadier has been a stshow finance wise, is Ratcliffe a saviour or just a delusional dreamer who is happy to sack minions?

This, why would you pay all that money for a part share if the financials are so bad? He may be as deluded about us as he is about the car he built.

Because the financials aren’t bad at all. That’s why he’s not deluded and a billionaire who has made a significant portion of his wealth turning round distressed assets. He’s thinking 6-7 years ahead unlike you.

I suspect he also wants to leave a legacy. New stadium, new training ground, the guy that saved United.

[philv]

Is Sir JR full of st?
The glaziers would let you go bust by christmas?

So the tea lady had to be fired so to speak.

Bullst.

[CountyAFC]

Yeah, I'm not buying a lot of what he said.

Name checking players? I'm sure they're thrilled about that. Great for morale.

Winning the PL in 3 years? Cloud cuckoo land.

Interesting he said he wants the club to be the most profitable in the world, nor the most successful on the pitch.

Dislike of the Glazers gave him a free ride to start with but reality is setting in now. He's not the genius he and most fans believed him to be.

[Wilmslowboy]

Any success ManUtd have in the near future will be in spite of the leadership not because of it.

Setting aside that football performance is much worse (under new leadership) and financial handling has been no better (if not worse).

They set about hollowing out some business functions (that supported ManUtd to be one of the worlds biggest brands, with massive global digital engagement) something that allowed record braking sponsorship deals even during a decade of medico football performance - this could come to hurt the club in years to come.

[thehop]

I think the name checking of players was related to the further £89m that is due in transfer instalments this summer for players that are either out on loan or not making the starting 11 (out of favour/injury). Complete shambles of a situation that SJR has inherited.
Will be slim pickings in the next window unless we can offload players, which has been difficult for us recently.

[Challo]

philv said:

Is Sir JR full of st?
The glaziers would let you go bust by christmas?

So the tea lady had to be fired so to speak.

Bullst.

I take it you didn’t read or watch any of the interviews then.

CountyAFC said:

Yeah, I'm not buying a lot of what he said.

Name checking players? I'm sure they're thrilled about that. Great for morale.

Winning the PL in 3 years? Cloud cuckoo land.

Interesting he said he wants the club to be the most profitable in the world, nor the most successful on the pitch.

Dislike of the Glazers gave him a free ride to start with but reality is setting in now. He's not the genius he and most fans believed him to be.

As thehop said he mentioned those players I terms of indicating that they are still either paying their wages when they aren’t at the club, or having to continually pay instalments on their fees. I think he mentioned that even before signing anyone this summer they need to pay out 89m in transfer payments for players already at the club.

The 3 year target of a league title is just that a target. Realistically they won’t get there, but he indicated that’s a target they are working towards. Better to have something than nothing at all.

Do fans think he is a genius? Has anyone said that? I think some fans don’t like him, others think at least we have someone onboard trying to do something about the mess the club has got themselves into. The challenge is now delivering on that and trying to turn it around to be successful again.

Edited by Challo on Tuesday 11th March 06:50

[simon800]

I found it fascinating hearing him saying how Amorim is doing such an incredible job. Just over 1 point per game seems to be the barometer for doing a good job, which is interesting.

He was so effusive in his praise of Amorim that he'd look like an even bigger idiot than he did over Ashworth and ETH if they change their mind, so it seems we are all in on next season being a success.

I'd be curious as to how they are defining success in the medium term. If 1 point per game is a good job this season and we are meant to win the league by 2028, I wonder what their expectations are of 25/26 and 26/27.

[Frimley111R]

CountyAFC said:

Winning the PL in 3 years? Cloud cuckoo land.

He admitted it was unlikely but said it is important to put timeframes on things, not just 'We'll win the Prem at some point.'

[type-r]

As a Liverpool fan, I do think SJR will clean up a lot of the financial mess, he's making the hard decisions that have been caused through neglect by the Glazers. Of course he was never going to blame the Glazers directly for obvious reasons, instead targeting the management teams that had been working under them. But we all know it's the negligence of the owners that has caused all of this - and to me, Ratcliff was indrectly blaming them by saying the club could be bust by November. That reflects very badly on the Glazers IMO. In the same way he was publicly stating what a great job Amorim is doing, which goes against all conventional wisdom but he has to say it. And he's right to say it IMO.

Think Neville's interview was excellent and really probed Ratcliff. The Glazers should never have taken dividends when the interest debt was increasing, never actually wanted to pay down the leveraged debt mountain you have had for 20 years. Possibly part of the problem was that the management teams before didn't have the cachet or power to tell the Glazers they needed to reduce the debt, or if they did, they ignored it. Ratcliff with his 28% now seemingly has the power to make the decisions to put United on a better financial footing and that includes reducing the leveraged debt and consequently interest payouts. Glazers will be happy but they should have been doing that for Day 1 but IMO, it will take a lot longer than 3 years but certainly a sustainable long term plan to achieve it will be happen with Ratcliff.

Financing the new stadium, which surely will cost 1bn+, will be interesting whilst balancing reducing the overall leveraged debt and in my very limited opinion, a lot of the existing debt needs to be eroded plus reducing the wage bill before considering a new stadium and stacking on more debt. But thay is just a layman's perspective with no real knowledge of the financials. 3 year plan is optimistic I think!

[rhamnousia5]

I haven’t had time to watch the interview so risking a bit of a durrrrr moment here.

Ratcliffe owns 28% but the Glazers hold the lions share still. So how does Ratcliffe sorting out the mess help the club in the medium to long term? Doesn’t it just bail the Glazers out to start up dividend payments again?

Unless there’s some way to force them out / buy them out then they’re just going to hang around indefinitely.

I know we all want success on the pitch but I can’t see how that’s going to be possible with a never reducing debt mountain and majority owners who just want to take money out.

[shed driver]

Plans for the new 100,000 seat stadium announced on an adjacent site.

Pie in the sky?

SD.

[Cie]

https://www.manutd.com/en/videos/detail/man-utd-co...

Looks very ambitious, slightly unrealistic maybe. It shows us winning 3-0.

[fiatpower]

The irony of it looking like a circus tent .