Subaru RB320, WRI,P1, RB5,22B

[Park'O]

rb5er said:

Evil.soup said:

I may get stung for this but I don't see the P1 as a car that will hold its value or really hit the spot like a well sorted newage car either.

Really? Even though a decent 12 year old example is still £10k? I can't think of many cars to have depreciated so little and they are only getting rarer.

They certainly hit the spot much better than any newage impreza i have ever been in or driven, just so much lighter and more nimble. The same was hinted in evo mag a few months ago when reviewing a new special edition, they concluded it was great and hugely capable but the classics offer much more by way of feel and involvement.

Couldn't agree more. It's arguably the best Impreza so far! You could say it's the bench mark!

[xxgomxx]

P1 will appreciate in cost in the near future I'm sure.

Phil

[golfer99]

RB Will said:

Or a Litchfield Type 25

Yes good but will it appeal to non uk buyers ? Whereas P1 and RB22 would I think

[golfer99]

xxgomxx said:

P1 will appreciate in cost in the near future I'm sure.

Phil

Yes P1 if I could find a good low mileage one would tick all the boxes

[drumsterphil]

xxgomxx said:

P1 will appreciate in cost in the near future I'm sure.

Phil

Sorry Phil but don't think so - they're going to continue to slide - at the end of the day they are 12yr old STi 2dr - they're great but not special enough to beat dpreciation.

The only semi-depreciation proof classic is a 22B - end of imo.

[drumsterphil]

Just add - I've either owned or driven just about every incarnation of Impreza going (see the post a pic of your subaru for proof..).

The ultimate Subaru to me IS the 22B. There is nothing quite like it - even in standard form. It does not feel like a Type R as a lot of people trot out (I doubt they've even been a passenger in one let alone driven one).

Mine was "tastefully" modified and is easily the most involving car I've ever owned - they're not for everyone but for me it's nigh-on motoring perfection (and the only car that I truly miss...).

[xxgomxx]

Let's agree to disagree.

Exceptional low mileage cars are changing hands for strong money.

Ps i've also owned many ltd attention impreza's and owned a mint rb5 when you had yours...;-)

Phil

Edited by xxgomxx on Tuesday 14th February 22:14

[ajf]

hi

have owned both p1 and 22b still do own

p1 great as a day to day car no better no worse than any sti of the same age
22b best weekend car by far

p1 price are not what they seam as a few owners put them up for sale with high price but dont want them to sell the ones that do sell are the lower end and not that much more than the same age sti
that practices has been talked about on the p1woc forum

cant comment on newage cars have been in a few but never driven

adrian

[juggers]

drumsterphil said:

Just add - I've either owned or driven just about every incarnation of Impreza going (see the post a pic of your subaru for proof..).

The ultimate Subaru to me IS the 22B. There is nothing quite like it - even in standard form. It does not feel like a Type R as a lot of people trot out (I doubt they've even been a passenger in one let alone driven one).

Mine was "tastefully" modified and is easily the most involving car I've ever owned - they're not for everyone but for me it's nigh-on motoring perfection (and the only car that I truly miss...).

Have you driven these to spec c,spec c type ra, S202,S203, S204, R205 and S206?

Having owned a WR1 and driven a p1 and 22b I can honestly say the newage cars are far better IMHO. The 22b is a true classic with true rally pedigree however in terms of performance the newage special editions S202,S203,S204,R205,S206,spec c Type ra and the RA-R leave it behind.

The ultimate garage sleeper and weekend trip to the shops is the 22B.
The ultimate impreza for road and track would be either the RA-R,R205 and S206.
The ultimate road going impreza would be the S204 due to the great suspension setup and the interior(carbon bucket seats worth £5k)
Either of the above will hold there value and command strong residuals.

A wr1 rb320 and sti Cosworth is not a special edition none of these cars rolled of the production line at fuji heavy industries. They are a products of the franchise owner in your country. People round the world will not know of a WR1, RB320 because they have there own ltd editions in their country however everyone knows about the "real" special editions tuned by "STI" which come from Japan.

That's my 2 pence worth.

Edited by juggers on Wednesday 15th February 13:50

[Inverness]

golfer99 said:

I am looking to get a limit edition Subaru , something that is very low mileage and that will hold most of it's value.
Where do I start any info on which cars I should look for and which dealers are recommended by the community .

Thanks in advance for your time.

I can only comment on the P1 and RB320 as these are the 2 models I have owned. I bought my P1 at 3 years old and sold it at 5 years old and lost about £6k, bought my RB320 brand new and sold it after 2 years for about £19K some of them are still this price and they will be 5years old this year! (should of kept it, but the car market had hit rock bottom in 2009!)

I loved both cars and always think how wonderful they look and sound when I see one. If it was me I would go for the RB320, as most P1's would have been modded.

[golfer99]

juggers said:

Have you driven these to spec c,spec c type ra, S202,S203, S204, R205 and S206?

Having owned a WR1 and driven a p1 and 22b I can honestly say the newage cars are far better IMHO. The 22b is a true classic with true rally pedigree however in terms of performance the newage special editions S202,S203,S204,R205,S206,spec c Type ra and the RA-R leave it behind.

The ultimate garage sleeper and weekend trip to the shops is the 22B.
The ultimate impreza for road and track would be either the RA-R,R205 and S206.
The ultimate road going impreza would be the S204 due to the great suspension setup and the interior(carbon bucket seats worth £5k)
Either of the above will hold there value and command strong residuals.

A wr1 rb320 and sti Cosworth is not a special edition none of these cars rolled of the production line at fuji heavy industries. They are a products of the franchise owner in your country. People round the world will not know of a WR1, RB320 because they have there own ltd editions in their country however everyone knows about the "real" special editions tuned by "STI" which come from Japan.

That's my 2 pence worth.

Edited by juggers on Wednesday 15th February 13:50

Thanks very useful info for me to take on aboard .

[rb5er]

juggers said:

1:Having owned a WR1 and driven a p1 and 22b I can honestly say the newage cars are far better IMHO.

2:A wr1 rb320 and sti Cosworth is not a special edition none of these cars rolled of the production line at fuji heavy industries. They are a products of the franchise owner in your country. People round the world will not know of a WR1, RB320 because they have there own ltd editions in their country however everyone knows about the "real" special editions tuned by "STI" which come from Japan.

1: My opinion and most i have ever read or heard is totally contrary to yours. Imo the classics feel much better. Main reason being they feel more nimble in every handling trait as they are lighter, simple physics there. But each to their own.

2: Is the Cosworth not a worldwide special edition? Cosworth is a world reknowned outfit and make parts for many cars Internationally so i would have thought a Cosworth tweaked version would be well known.

Anyway just because a special edition is not known Internationally it does not mean it will not be sought after and valuable in its home country.

[juggers]

rb5er said:

1: My opinion and most i have ever read or heard is totally contrary to yours. Imo the classics feel much better. Main reason being they feel more nimble in every handling trait as they are lighter, simple physics there. But each to their own.

2: Is the Cosworth not a worldwide special edition? Cosworth is a world reknowned outfit and make parts for many cars Internationally so i would have thought a Cosworth tweaked version would be well known.

Anyway just because a special edition is not known Internationally it does not mean it will not be sought after and valuable in its home country.

Yes I agree it's lighter, but that doesn't necessary mean it's better, most enthusiast's I know say the the new age car feels miles better in road and track form.

The Cosworth is a UK car only , but because they couldn't shift more than double figures Cosworth tried to shift the remaining handful of motors to other RHD countries. However they wouldn't warrant the engines so everyone told them to f''k off. There were supposed to be 75 made however I think they only managed to sell 15 if that.

[rb5er]

juggers said:

Yes I agree it's lighter, but that doesn't necessary mean it's better, most enthusiast's I know say the the new age car feels miles better in road and track form.

The Cosworth is a UK car only , but because they couldn't shift more than double figures Cosworth tried to shift the remaining handful of motors to other RHD countries. However they wouldn't warrant the engines so everyone told them to f''k off. There were supposed to be 75 made however I think they only managed to sell 15 if that.

No , ighter does not automatically make a car better but when the rest if the car is very similar it does make a huge difference to the whole experience. The sense of momentum and inertia is much less in the classic and it feels more alive, the newage have more direct pointy steering but which is less feelsome.

Other than a more rigid chassis (which was never a problem for the classic anyway) and a more modern interior i cannot see how anyone would find the dynamics of a newage better. What do you think makes it feel better in your opinion?

I dont doubt you about the Cosworth as you seem very knowledgeable about it but it seems strange they were never destined for other markets considering Cosworth is mainly based in the U.S now.

[juggers]

rb5er said:

No , ighter does not automatically make a car better but when the rest if the car is very similar it does make a huge difference to the whole experience. The sense of momentum and inertia is much less in the classic and it feels more alive, the newage have more direct pointy steering but which is less feelsome.

Other than a more rigid chassis (which was never a problem for the classic anyway) and a more modern interior i cannot see how anyone would find the dynamics of a newage better. What do you think makes it feel better in your opinion?

I dont doubt you about the Cosworth as you seem very knowledgeable about it but it seems strange they were never destined for other markets considering Cosworth is mainly based in the U.S now.

As you state above "more rigid chassis" stronger engines,gearboxes and diffs to handle more power.On the Jap cars they also get a twinscroll turbo system which eliminates lag and makes it a superb drive.

It's each to their own my friend the classic is a great motor and will go down in motoring history due to it's rally pedigree and success.

[Vixpy1]

Buy a decent Sti 5 or 6 Type R, Bar the 22b they are by far the most enjoyable Subaru's to drive, and if you get a good one you are unlikely to loose muh money.

[golfer99]

Vixpy1 said:

Buy a decent Sti 5 or 6 Type R, Bar the 22b they are by far the most enjoyable Subaru's to drive, and if you get a good one you are unlikely to loose muh money.

Thanks good valid point

[Evil.soup]

For me the P1/New Age argument isn't about handling/performance as much as it is about market appeal. The P1 was at the top of its game at the time but its just another special edition that only really holds a limited appeal as it grows old. At the end of the day its just a tweaked Sti.

The 22B is a very special car and the residuals back this up. Its the closest you can get to owning the same car that run on the rally stages and probably the last chance to get that close, thats why its such an icon.

I equally don't think the likes of the WR1 or RB320 will have that long term appeal as once again they are just tweaked uk Sti's. The RB320 in fact bugs me just a bit to be honest. A limited edition should be just that with just one spec but Subaru tried to profit off the back of the RB charity by offering "options" that should have always been part of the car, like RB seats!! It's very rare a car is created in this country with just performace in mind unlike the true special editions in Japan like the S cars and Type RA and RA-R.

Just my opinion of course but if I had all the money in the world the P1 wouldn't be on the garage list. Not because its not an outstanding car but just not special enough.

[rb5er]

Vixpy1 said:

Buy a decent Sti 5 or 6 Type R, Bar the 22b they are by far the most enjoyable Subaru's to drive .

Exactly the point i was trying to make, mainly due to lack of weight and compact size.

An unoticably more rigid chassis and apparently more reliable engine and diff does not make a better drivers car.

[juggers]

rb5er said:

Exactly the point i was trying to make, mainly due to lack of weight and compact size.

An unoticably more rigid chassis and apparently more reliable engine and diff does not make a better drivers car.

The chassis is lighter on the classics, but the new age chassis step's the game up. Subaru would of had to develop a chassis that would be capable of winning the WRC and our performing it's predecessor which they did do in 2003 and probably could of done so until 2006 had peter Solberg kept the car on the road.

And if a more reliable engine and stronger diff do not mke it a better drivers what does........weight reduction?
Just out of curiosity have you ever took a classic and a spec c on a trackday?