FK2 or FD2 & mods?
Discussion
Simple question really, I've been looking at buying a Honda and I've narrowed it down to those two. I love the speed and refinement of the FK but I have an rs6 for that job so I have now been chatting with BHP about importing an FD. The FD seems raw and a good antidote to the rs6s flaws. Any advice from owners of them would be aprecatded also as an aside I wanted a dc2 but the insurance is about half the value of the car so that annoyed me and the ek9 is too slow for me, plus 4 doors is a bonus.
The FD2 is probably the slowest depreciating car I've ever seen - the Mrs has one and it's worth the same as it was when we bought it 2 years ago.
Get one and then supercharge it..... oh and have you seen the black ones? They look superb.
http://torque-gt.co.uk/car/honda-civic-type-r-2/
Get one and then supercharge it..... oh and have you seen the black ones? They look superb.
http://torque-gt.co.uk/car/honda-civic-type-r-2/
Owned one for 4 years (FD2). Should have chopped it in last year as have a new job 33 miles from home, but just couldn't.
If you need 4 doors and a boot, there's not a lot this side of an E90 M3 or a last-gen C63 which will make you smile as much, and it's notably lighter (and more immediate/hyper) than either of those.
vs FK2 - the FK2 is quicker, has more/newer tech...and is more refined outside of +R mode. And that's about it - the FD2 has better poise, more adjustability, better feedback, better sound, better throttle response, higher redline...etc. etc. And it's not exactly slow - official 222bhp is in reality >230bhp...in a 1,270kg car, so it punches above where the headline stats suggest.
Negatives:-
- The OEM suspension is like concrete, esp. with the (OE fitment) stiff-sidewall'd RE001 rubber. On UK roads it doesn't work - the rear end damper rating is far too high so the springs don't work properly and it falls apart as soon as you hit a bumpy B-road. Replacing rear-dampers with Koni Yellows fixes that one, leaving the front end a BIT too stiff on properly nadgety roads, but nothing you can't live with.
- Even with Koni Yellow's the ride is never relaxing - IMHO it's a little too much for a daily driver, but it's doable - see my first line above!
- It's old-school Type-R - stripped out, noisy, little equipment (a/c, elec windows, rear tints, double-DIN - and that's it for standard kit)
- Did I mention it's noisy?!? On a M-way journey we struggle to hear our son behind us unless he speaks up...
- The seat bolsters are quite aggressive, so if you're a plus-size gentleman you may not be comfortable.
If you need 4 doors and a boot, there's not a lot this side of an E90 M3 or a last-gen C63 which will make you smile as much, and it's notably lighter (and more immediate/hyper) than either of those.
vs FK2 - the FK2 is quicker, has more/newer tech...and is more refined outside of +R mode. And that's about it - the FD2 has better poise, more adjustability, better feedback, better sound, better throttle response, higher redline...etc. etc. And it's not exactly slow - official 222bhp is in reality >230bhp...in a 1,270kg car, so it punches above where the headline stats suggest.
Negatives:-
- The OEM suspension is like concrete, esp. with the (OE fitment) stiff-sidewall'd RE001 rubber. On UK roads it doesn't work - the rear end damper rating is far too high so the springs don't work properly and it falls apart as soon as you hit a bumpy B-road. Replacing rear-dampers with Koni Yellows fixes that one, leaving the front end a BIT too stiff on properly nadgety roads, but nothing you can't live with.
- Even with Koni Yellow's the ride is never relaxing - IMHO it's a little too much for a daily driver, but it's doable - see my first line above!
- It's old-school Type-R - stripped out, noisy, little equipment (a/c, elec windows, rear tints, double-DIN - and that's it for standard kit)
- Did I mention it's noisy?!? On a M-way journey we struggle to hear our son behind us unless he speaks up...
- The seat bolsters are quite aggressive, so if you're a plus-size gentleman you may not be comfortable.
Firstly thanks so much for that comprehensive response!
size isn't an issue I'm a skinny youth the tighter the bolsters the better!
I don't need four doors its just much easier, I did look as DC5's but they're just not my cup of tea; the looks and the interior are not for me but i do love the seats.
the other car I had considered is a DC2 which I love but it seemed like the FD was the modern interpretation, I have also thought about ATR which is appealing as the price is so low atm value is great.
Im just torn as to what Type R I should buy I want an exciting car that i want to just take for a drive for pleaser
Any opinions much appreciated
size isn't an issue I'm a skinny youth the tighter the bolsters the better!
I don't need four doors its just much easier, I did look as DC5's but they're just not my cup of tea; the looks and the interior are not for me but i do love the seats.
the other car I had considered is a DC2 which I love but it seemed like the FD was the modern interpretation, I have also thought about ATR which is appealing as the price is so low atm value is great.
Im just torn as to what Type R I should buy I want an exciting car that i want to just take for a drive for pleaser
Any opinions much appreciated
FD2 is a lot more modern (good ways and bad ways) than the DC2 / CH1 (ATR). So it's safer, it's stiffer, it's got less feel/feedback (!), it's got better brakes...
ATR for me is an absolute bargain right now, and is probably 95% of the car the DC2 is - notably thicker mid-range than the DC2 but rev-limit just too low so it drops out of VTEC unless you run it right to the limiter. A VTEC controller can fix this though by lowering the cut-over point a few hundred rpm.
So it depends on your budget - if you can afford an FD2 then you're unlikely to lose money if you look after it, but if an FD2 would be a real stretch financially then an ATR + a couple of choice tweaks wouldn't disappoint. Just check the known weakpoints (synchro, linkage, calipers from memory) and for rust.
DC2 for me is still the best. It's got (comparatively) no mid-range, it's got the shortest gearing, but it's THE most engaging still and has the best handling/grip/ride balance, and it rewards so much at sensible speeds not licence-losing ones. There may be an element of rose-tints there though as I've had two and only sold the last when we started a family.
ATR for me is an absolute bargain right now, and is probably 95% of the car the DC2 is - notably thicker mid-range than the DC2 but rev-limit just too low so it drops out of VTEC unless you run it right to the limiter. A VTEC controller can fix this though by lowering the cut-over point a few hundred rpm.
So it depends on your budget - if you can afford an FD2 then you're unlikely to lose money if you look after it, but if an FD2 would be a real stretch financially then an ATR + a couple of choice tweaks wouldn't disappoint. Just check the known weakpoints (synchro, linkage, calipers from memory) and for rust.
DC2 for me is still the best. It's got (comparatively) no mid-range, it's got the shortest gearing, but it's THE most engaging still and has the best handling/grip/ride balance, and it rewards so much at sensible speeds not licence-losing ones. There may be an element of rose-tints there though as I've had two and only sold the last when we started a family.
Thanks so much for the responses!
Money isn't really an object up until silly expensive hondas like the NSX I wanted peoples opinions on Type R's it sounds like the FD is still a purist type r and true to the brand i.e. stripped out revvy and rewarding? Is the K series as entertaining as the B/H series engines are?
Sorry for all the questions but getting seat time is super hard!
Money isn't really an object up until silly expensive hondas like the NSX I wanted peoples opinions on Type R's it sounds like the FD is still a purist type r and true to the brand i.e. stripped out revvy and rewarding? Is the K series as entertaining as the B/H series engines are?
Sorry for all the questions but getting seat time is super hard!
Dominick_b5RS said:
Is the K series as entertaining as the B/H series engines are?
Broadly, yes.Sound isn't QUITE as feral as the B18C6 on-song - it's more metallic, with a slightly more touring-car vibe going on. But throttle-response is arguably as good (and feels better because the DBW throttle has been made very responsive), and the mid-range is better (which makes it easier to drive but removes the 'kick' on-cam).
...and when is 8,500rpm ever NOT entertaining?!?
The DC5 is a great car I'm sure but I'm just not keen on them and i don't want to compromise! I would love a DC2 but I'm worried by the age they are over 20 years old now and a lot haven't been looked after 100%. I do like ATR but again i can't find one that hasn't been abused or defaced cosmetically unless silly high miles.
I think I'm off the idea of an FK2 for the time being although every time i see the local one they do look super aggressive!
I think I'm off the idea of an FK2 for the time being although every time i see the local one they do look super aggressive!
Dominick_b5RS said:
Simple question really, I've been looking at buying a Honda and I've narrowed it down to those two. I love the speed and refinement of the FK but I have an rs6 for that job so I have now been chatting with BHP about importing an FD. The FD seems raw and a good antidote to the rs6s flaws. Any advice from owners of them would be aprecatded also as an aside I wanted a dc2 but the insurance is about half the value of the car so that annoyed me and the ek9 is too slow for me, plus 4 doors is a bonus.
Great thread, and a nice dilemma to have 
Me? To answer your question of a straight choice between an FK2, or an FD2, I'd be reaching for the FD2 keys every time, regardless of budget. Without question.
However...
If you spent FK2 money sorting out an Accord Type R or DC2, that would be a very compelling argument and by sorted out, I mean as fresh as you can make it.
Between those two it's FD2 every time. Decent number of clean examples out there whether it's in the UK or Japan. The last of the old school Type-R.
ATR is also a shout. I have one and I love it. Massively underrated and one of the great performance bargains. Gives the legendary DC2 a right good run for its money.
EK9 as mentioned is not as quick, but you'll be grinning eat-to-ear on a B-road or track.
ATR is also a shout. I have one and I love it. Massively underrated and one of the great performance bargains. Gives the legendary DC2 a right good run for its money.
EK9 as mentioned is not as quick, but you'll be grinning eat-to-ear on a B-road or track.
Can’t speak highly enough for the DC2- but you are correct in that they are getting genuinely rare to find in clean standard fettle....
They are very tough & reliable indeed however. Regular oil changes & valve clearance settings are important.
All DC2’s will by now need to have been rebushed inc engine mounts.
Aside from that rust is the biggy. Rear arches specifically.
Was lucky enough to pick mine up 18months ago. White UK, stock, 51k miles. Can’t see me ever selling it!
They are very tough & reliable indeed however. Regular oil changes & valve clearance settings are important.
All DC2’s will by now need to have been rebushed inc engine mounts.
Aside from that rust is the biggy. Rear arches specifically.
Was lucky enough to pick mine up 18months ago. White UK, stock, 51k miles. Can’t see me ever selling it!
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