Foz STi and other fast JDM estates - am I daft?
Discussion
My FSTI has been very reliable over the last three years and with over 300bhp they still feel quick. I like the proper, constant AWD, its now saved me on at least two occasions. If you get one that someone has already modified, remap, exhaust, ARBs + drop links, then you will save.
They need a bit more maintenance than a modern car and the body parts that are FSTI specific mainly the bumpers) are no longer available. Although some people get over 25mpg, I find it eats fuel on short journeys.
They need a bit more maintenance than a modern car and the body parts that are FSTI specific mainly the bumpers) are no longer available. Although some people get over 25mpg, I find it eats fuel on short journeys.
MurderousCrow said:
Hello Suba-gurus. I'm looking for a new car. Needs are as follows:
1 - Reliable
2 - Japanese
3 - Manual 'box
4 - Estate body
5 - Good to drive, not too wallowy
6 - Five seats with 3-point belts
7 - Sounds nice
8 - preferably AWD or RWD
I've considered the following:
- Accord Type-S estate. Rare, often rusty, bit slow, FWD with no LSD
- Nissan Stagea RS Four. Most are autos; manuals rare, much more expensive and often a bit rough.
- Legacy estate. 3.0, 2.5 twinscroll. Quite quick, meets most of the criteria, but seems only to have a lap belt for middle rear passenger??
- Forester STi. Meets all the criteria. Except possibly number 1. I've owned two Subarus before, both blob STis, and I'd love to have another one.
So, am I nuts, is my heart ruling my head? How reliable is the Foz - headgasket, cooling issues, etc.? Is a history of remap for UK fuel essential? What things to watch for?
Any other suggestions?
Cheers,
Luke
Foz is the same size inside as a Blob. If that's sufficient, consider a Blob WRX Wagon with the less worrying 2.0. If you need more space inside, consider a Legacy.1 - Reliable
2 - Japanese
3 - Manual 'box
4 - Estate body
5 - Good to drive, not too wallowy
6 - Five seats with 3-point belts
7 - Sounds nice
8 - preferably AWD or RWD
I've considered the following:
- Accord Type-S estate. Rare, often rusty, bit slow, FWD with no LSD
- Nissan Stagea RS Four. Most are autos; manuals rare, much more expensive and often a bit rough.
- Legacy estate. 3.0, 2.5 twinscroll. Quite quick, meets most of the criteria, but seems only to have a lap belt for middle rear passenger??
- Forester STi. Meets all the criteria. Except possibly number 1. I've owned two Subarus before, both blob STis, and I'd love to have another one.
So, am I nuts, is my heart ruling my head? How reliable is the Foz - headgasket, cooling issues, etc.? Is a history of remap for UK fuel essential? What things to watch for?
Any other suggestions?
Cheers,
Luke
Another thing to maybe consider is a Forester 2.5xt. I picked mine up for £5k, with Prodrive performance pack (280bhp/310 lb ft with an Enginetuner remap), whiteline arbs and drop links, lowered 1" on KYB Excel Gs and Springcoil springs, and the troublesome secondary air pump deleted. More comfort goodies than an Sti too - leather, cruise, sunroof. No 6-speed though, 5-speed or auto only, and no Brembos. But, half the price of an Sti. A very rapid utility car, it's 0-60 time is about 5.1 seconds.
Another car I sometimes wonder about is a Nissan Stagea.
Another car I sometimes wonder about is a Nissan Stagea.
Hi all,
An update - I bought Mr Bones' car, and I'm jolly pleased with it so far. It's had a service, but I haven't yet managed to clean it yet, and in my opinion it looks good plastered in road grime
Regards the first point on my checklist, this particular car has had the benefit of an engine refresh and upgraded HG in response to a slight HG leak 20,000mi ago; given the rest of the history and where the car has been worked on (TDR in Warwick), I feel confident it will continue to be reliable for me.
It's done a big road trip, comfortably transporting 2 adults, 2 kids and 2 dogs plus lots of baggage. I've also done a fair bit of town driving, and it's surprisingly civilised for this with excellent visibility and abundant torque. And it's had a leg stretch across some rural A-roads, keeping well within limits of course but using its fantastic overtaking ability when safe. All in the engine's effortless power delivery encourages a relaxed style. One can pleasantly thread corners together while the excellent suspension copes brilliantly with the worst that UK roads can offer.
Thanks everyone for the helpful input.
An update - I bought Mr Bones' car, and I'm jolly pleased with it so far. It's had a service, but I haven't yet managed to clean it yet, and in my opinion it looks good plastered in road grime
Regards the first point on my checklist, this particular car has had the benefit of an engine refresh and upgraded HG in response to a slight HG leak 20,000mi ago; given the rest of the history and where the car has been worked on (TDR in Warwick), I feel confident it will continue to be reliable for me.
It's done a big road trip, comfortably transporting 2 adults, 2 kids and 2 dogs plus lots of baggage. I've also done a fair bit of town driving, and it's surprisingly civilised for this with excellent visibility and abundant torque. And it's had a leg stretch across some rural A-roads, keeping well within limits of course but using its fantastic overtaking ability when safe. All in the engine's effortless power delivery encourages a relaxed style. One can pleasantly thread corners together while the excellent suspension copes brilliantly with the worst that UK roads can offer.
Thanks everyone for the helpful input.
VPXavier said:
Hey guys, maybe diverting a little from the original topic but... Does the legacy 3rd gen have isofix?
If the 3rd gen is '03 - '09 then yes according to Parkers:'The basic equipment list includes equipment that is standard across all versions of the Subaru Legacy Sports Tourer (03-09).
... Isofix child seat anchor points'
https://www.parkers.co.uk/subaru/legacy/sports-tou...
MurderousCrow said:
VPXavier said:
Hey guys, maybe diverting a little from the original topic but... Does the legacy 3rd gen have isofix?
If the 3rd gen is '03 - '09 then yes according to Parkers:Sorry for the thread resurrection, but thinking of replacing my venerable (well, '04) 2.5 SE Outback with a Legacy B Spec.
A bit torn between a UK 3.0 vs a 2.0 import Twinscroll.
Pro's of the UK car, leather easier to come by, dealer support
Cons, mostly autos (though there's a v.low mileage, but high cost, manual available at the mo), high VED
Pro's of an import - more POWA Manuals thinner on the ground, but not impossible. Mostly cloth with a few alcontara, £255 annual VED
Cons, reliability, parts, clocked?
Would welcome opinions from owners who've trodden this path before me
A bit torn between a UK 3.0 vs a 2.0 import Twinscroll.
Pro's of the UK car, leather easier to come by, dealer support
Cons, mostly autos (though there's a v.low mileage, but high cost, manual available at the mo), high VED
Pro's of an import - more POWA Manuals thinner on the ground, but not impossible. Mostly cloth with a few alcontara, £255 annual VED
Cons, reliability, parts, clocked?
Would welcome opinions from owners who've trodden this path before me
Stig said:
Sorry for the thread resurrection, but thinking of replacing my venerable (well, '04) 2.5 SE Outback with a Legacy B Spec.
A bit torn between a UK 3.0 vs a 2.0 import Twinscroll.
Pro's of the UK car, leather easier to come by, dealer support
Cons, mostly autos (though there's a v.low mileage, but high cost, manual available at the mo), high VED
Pro's of an import - more POWA Manuals thinner on the ground, but not impossible. Mostly cloth with a few alcontara, £255 annual VED
Cons, reliability, parts, clocked?
Would welcome opinions from owners who've trodden this path before me
Further cons of the TS:A bit torn between a UK 3.0 vs a 2.0 import Twinscroll.
Pro's of the UK car, leather easier to come by, dealer support
Cons, mostly autos (though there's a v.low mileage, but high cost, manual available at the mo), high VED
Pro's of an import - more POWA Manuals thinner on the ground, but not impossible. Mostly cloth with a few alcontara, £255 annual VED
Cons, reliability, parts, clocked?
Would welcome opinions from owners who've trodden this path before me
Cruise control limited to 68mph
No underseal/protection
KM to MPH conversion
Price - For a decent manual facelift you're not far off £10k for one!
Also: http://www.uklegacy.com/forums/
Tall Paul is largely right about the Twinscrolls, but let me elaborate:
Cruise control limited to 68mph - if it has cruise, it's an auto, manual Twinscrolls don't have cruise. An Ecuteck remap will sort out your cruise limiter anyway (talk to David Hendry Cars) and you'll want a remap regardless of auto or manual as the car is built for 102RON, and the best you can get is Shell or Tesco 99 which isn't really quite good enough - and if you have to put 97 in for any reason and you haven't had it remapped, it'll det under boost. Get it remapped for 97, or 99 if you can always rely on getting it. Bob Rawle or Duncan at Racedynamix if you just want the remap and don't need the cruise limit removed,
Speedo in kms - any importer will convert this to miles, but you can leave in kms, it's not a problem come MOT time.
No underseal protection - I think this depends a bit on where in Japan it was sold, but the plus side is there's basically no corrosion. A UKDM car of this age won't be anything like as corrosion free, so swings and roundabouts.
Price - agreed, you can only get Gen IV TS Legacys up to 08/9, and for one of those, you're looking at the best part of 10K (or more) as a manual, depending on mileage.
Twinscrolls have a fair bit more urgency compared to the 3.0 cars, but definitely don't sound as good (no Subaru burble as the twinscroll turbo needs equal length headers).
Oh, he's completely right recommending the UK Legacy forum, a finer bunch of people would be difficult to find.
Cruise control limited to 68mph - if it has cruise, it's an auto, manual Twinscrolls don't have cruise. An Ecuteck remap will sort out your cruise limiter anyway (talk to David Hendry Cars) and you'll want a remap regardless of auto or manual as the car is built for 102RON, and the best you can get is Shell or Tesco 99 which isn't really quite good enough - and if you have to put 97 in for any reason and you haven't had it remapped, it'll det under boost. Get it remapped for 97, or 99 if you can always rely on getting it. Bob Rawle or Duncan at Racedynamix if you just want the remap and don't need the cruise limit removed,
Speedo in kms - any importer will convert this to miles, but you can leave in kms, it's not a problem come MOT time.
No underseal protection - I think this depends a bit on where in Japan it was sold, but the plus side is there's basically no corrosion. A UKDM car of this age won't be anything like as corrosion free, so swings and roundabouts.
Price - agreed, you can only get Gen IV TS Legacys up to 08/9, and for one of those, you're looking at the best part of 10K (or more) as a manual, depending on mileage.
Twinscrolls have a fair bit more urgency compared to the 3.0 cars, but definitely don't sound as good (no Subaru burble as the twinscroll turbo needs equal length headers).
Oh, he's completely right recommending the UK Legacy forum, a finer bunch of people would be difficult to find.
Edited by Paco Jones on Friday 14th September 21:43
Paco Jones said:
Tall Paul is largely right about the Twinscrolls, but let me elaborate:
Cruise control limited to 68mph - if it has cruise, it's an auto, manual Twinscrolls don't have cruise. An Ecuteck remap will sort out your cruise limiter anyway (talk to David Hendry Cars) and you'll want a remap regardless of auto or manual as the car is built for 102RON, and the best you can get is Shell or Tesco 99 which isn't really quite good enough - and if you have to put 97 in for any reason and you haven't had it remapped, it'll det under boost. Get it remapped for 97, or 99 if you can always rely on getting it. Bob Rawle or Duncan at Racedynamix if you just want the remap and don't need the cruise limit removed,
Speedo in kms - any importer will convert this to miles, but you can leave in kms, it's not a problem come MOT time.
No underseal protection - I think this depends a bit on where in Japan it was sold, but the plus side is there's basically no corrosion. A UKDM car of this age won't be anything like as corrosion free, so swings and roundabouts.
Price - agreed, you can only get Gen IV TS Legacys up to 08/9, and for one of those, you're looking at the best part of 10K (or more) as a manual, depending on mileage.
Twinscrolls have a fair bit more urgency compared to the 3.0 cars, but definitely don't sound as good (no Subaru burble as the twinscroll turbo needs equal length headers).
Oh, he's completely right recommending the UK Legacy forum, a finer bunch of people would be difficult to find.
Thanks - tbh I'm just learning all of this and I've been focusing on the UKDM 3.0 Spec B's rather than the JDM TS cars, but I tend to research cars a lot before I buy Cruise control limited to 68mph - if it has cruise, it's an auto, manual Twinscrolls don't have cruise. An Ecuteck remap will sort out your cruise limiter anyway (talk to David Hendry Cars) and you'll want a remap regardless of auto or manual as the car is built for 102RON, and the best you can get is Shell or Tesco 99 which isn't really quite good enough - and if you have to put 97 in for any reason and you haven't had it remapped, it'll det under boost. Get it remapped for 97, or 99 if you can always rely on getting it. Bob Rawle or Duncan at Racedynamix if you just want the remap and don't need the cruise limit removed,
Speedo in kms - any importer will convert this to miles, but you can leave in kms, it's not a problem come MOT time.
No underseal protection - I think this depends a bit on where in Japan it was sold, but the plus side is there's basically no corrosion. A UKDM car of this age won't be anything like as corrosion free, so swings and roundabouts.
Price - agreed, you can only get Gen IV TS Legacys up to 08/9, and for one of those, you're looking at the best part of 10K (or more) as a manual, depending on mileage.
Twinscrolls have a fair bit more urgency compared to the 3.0 cars, but definitely don't sound as good (no Subaru burble as the twinscroll turbo needs equal length headers).
Oh, he's completely right recommending the UK Legacy forum, a finer bunch of people would be difficult to find.
Edited by Paco Jones on Friday 14th September 21:43
I have just bought a recently imported Mitsubish Airtrek Turbo R.
Lancer Evo underneath and Outlander series 1 on top,
Much cheaper than a Forrester STI though not as quick as standard and it is an Auto.
I couldn't stretch to importing a Forrester so the Airtrek was an alternative.
extra JDM points for being a rare sight on UK roads :-)
Lancer Evo underneath and Outlander series 1 on top,
Much cheaper than a Forrester STI though not as quick as standard and it is an Auto.
I couldn't stretch to importing a Forrester so the Airtrek was an alternative.
extra JDM points for being a rare sight on UK roads :-)
UK Spec B is great in manual, a real wolf in sheeps clothing - get it mapped and on vpower and it goes like stink and the handling is up with the best, only a handful of facelift manuals exist in the UK so hardly any chance of ever seeing one. it also sounds fantastic, especially with a decent exhaust
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