Mars is barred: why we shouldn't go to the red planet

[Jinx]

Toaster said:

Even if we did go and happened to be successful the question "What is the point of our Existence" will still be asked.

To spread the earth to other worlds - we are its gametes.

[Simpo Two]

Toaster said:

ash73 said:

What is the point of our existence if we don't go?

Even if we did go and happened to be successful the question "What is the point of our Existence" will still be asked.

There may be no point at all. We evolve, breed, go extinct - just like many other species. Just an accident of science.

[Toaster]

Jinx said:

Toaster said:

Even if we did go and happened to be successful the question "What is the point of our Existence" will still be asked.

To spread the earth to other worlds - we are its gametes.

Another view as explained by Mr Smith to Morpheus, who had come to the conclusion that Humans are more like a Virus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aezikcoCr4o

[Toaster]

Simpo Two said:

There may be no point at all. We evolve, breed, go extinct - just like many other species. Just an accident of science.

Exactly and lets party whilst we can

[Jinx]

Toaster said:

Another view as explained by Mr Smith to Morpheus, who had come to the conclusion that Humans are more like a Virus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aezikcoCr4o

And?
Viruses are a part of nature (prior viruses are possibly the root our immune system) - they exist to multiply. But we are more akin to bacteria than viruses (we don't invade cells to multiply, we use the host and multiply within this environment) and know that to survive elsewhere we need to recreate the earth. If that is what we are then we should acknowledge it and get on with infecting the universe.....

[Toaster]

Jinx said:

And?.

I guess Humans will just wipe out all other living beings then in the name of saving humanity rather living with some equilibrium

[ElectricSoup]

Jinx said:

ash73 said:

What is the point of our existence if we don't go?

Agreed. We are the earth's best hope for survival. This planet will die (CO2 sequestration via ocean life or when the sun uses up all its hydrogen - timings are a little confused). We cannot survive without the earth (atmosphere, plant life, environment) as such we will have to recreate it where-ever we go.
If we don't at least try we may as well lie down and die now........

If we develop the technology to make other planets inhabitable for human life, why can't we use that technology to "repair" Earth in the event that it begins to become uninhabitable? Obviously doesn't apply to the 'sun expanding and enveloping the planet' scenario, but that's so far in the future as to be not worth considering.

Couldn't any other kind of "Earth death" be treated with this wonder technology, if we think we can do it to other planets?

[Jinx]

ElectricSoup said:

If we develop the technology to make other planets inhabitable for human life, why can't we use that technology to "repair" Earth in the event that it begins to become uninhabitable? Obviously doesn't apply to the 'sun expanding and enveloping the planet' scenario, but that's so far in the future as to be not worth considering.

Couldn't any other kind of "Earth death" be treated with this wonder technology, if we think we can do it to other planets?

We already have the technology for releasing sequestered carbon back into the atmosphere and is provides reliable power as a by product.

[Simpo Two]

Toaster said:

I guess Humans will just wipe out all other living beings then in the name of saving humanity rather living with some equilibrium

We can't wipe out the cows. We need cows for steak!

ash73 said:

I can't abide this depressing pseudo intellectual atheist attitude that life is pointless, you might as well just kill yourself. Find a purpose and get on with it. Survival seems a good place to start.

I think of it as a cry for help.

[Toaster]

ash73 said:

We can't live in equilibrium if a large asteroid comes our way. If we don't spend money on space exploration we are signing a death warrant for all life on Earth; presumably you and your descendents will be giving up their tickets on the Earth 2.0 ark?

Missions to Mars means scientists can play around digging in the dirt opining about the origin of life etc, but the real reason for going is to learn how to survive for extended periods in deep space, and develop bigger and better rockets.

I can't abide this depressing pseudo intellectual atheist attitude that life is pointless, you might as well just kill yourself. Find a purpose and get on with it. Survival seems a good place to start.

Lol well I am an atheist, and intellectual and have purpose in my one and only short life. If you think people will be happy by chasing the mars dystopia think again and anyway Robots can do all the digging and analysing we do not need to subject humans to do that.

[Toaster]

Simpo Two said:

I think of it as a cry for help.

Nope I am quite happy by not chasing what many seem to think is utopia, even though I am guilty as most in some aspects of what the video portrays

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9dZQelULDk

[4x4Tyke]

Simpo Two said:

I think of it as a cry for help.

Fatalistic nihilism is what it is, so yes pretty sad.

[Toaster]

4x4Tyke said:

Fatalistic nihilism is what it is, so yes pretty sad.

Now you may think your being clever but if I hold fatalism and Nihilism as philosophies it means its a view on the world. It could well be that there is no real purpose for humanity (Nihilism) and whilst you could argue a case for Humanities purpose the case can be just as easily dismantled as could the case against Humanity not having a purpose.

Fatalism, best laid plans and all that, can we as individuals or as a group really say that we have control over destiny or is it a lucky accident ? You come from a first would country you have choices on how and were you live, is that you having control over destiny or is it the fact that the environment you live in gives you pre determined paths you can follow?

if you came from a destitute 3 world country born in to a lower class family (lower class within that system) would you really have the paths you have today?

We are a product of chance and accident

So getting back to Mars, should we go probably not, certainly not in terms of colonisation, you could argue Man only went to the Moon for political reasons......

[4x4Tyke]

Toaster said:

shallow appreciation of nihilism and flawed conclusions

If the universe is nihilistic, having no intrinsic purpose beyond existing, and we are a long way from knowing that, we still get to define our own purpose in life, as individuals and as a society, that including discovering the wonders of the universe.

[Toaster]

ash73 said:

Toaster said:

Now you may think your being clever but if I hold fatalism and Nihilism as philosophies it means its a view on the world. It could well be that there is no real purpose for humanity (Nihilism) and whilst you could argue a case for Humanities purpose the case can be just as easily dismantled as could the case against Humanity not having a purpose.

Fatalism, best laid plans and all that, can we as individuals or as a group really say that we have control over destiny or is it a lucky accident ? You come from a first would country you have choices on how and were you live, is that you having control over destiny or is it the fact that the environment you live in gives you pre determined paths you can follow?

Both are demonstrably incorrect. If you hold them as your own personal philisophies it suggests to me you've read a few pop science books and can't think for yourself.

Take moral nihilism as an example, it asserts no action is preferable to any other so killing someone is not inherently right or wrong. This is of course nonsense. Humans are strong because we work together, any intelligent species anywhere in the universe with that same characteristic will inevitably have a law not to kill others; morality is a prerequisite of civilisation.

Fatalism is also wrong. The universe is not deterministic, we learned that in the 1920s with the discovery of quantum mechanics. If you established the exact same starting conditions for another universe, or if this universe collapsed back in on itself to the exact same starting state, it would not unfold as before because all events are based on probability.

Clearly I was responding to 4X4tyke who decided without any evidence I am nihilistic and fatalism, there is as I am sure you are aware differing approaches to nihilism, you chose to respond with one approach, there are some with very dubious Moral compass's who have and do inhabit the earth so moral nihilism does exist. Having said this I do accept this is not what we would consider a norm for society.

Quantum Mechanics is a Quantitive science and describes the behaviour of the very small and therefore cannot describe Philosophy. Two different Sciences and two different approaches but of course both having validity in their own domains.

[Toaster]

4x4Tyke said:

Toaster said:

shallow appreciation of nihilism and flawed conclusions

If the universe is nihilistic, having no intrinsic purpose beyond existing, and we are a long way from knowing that, we still get to define our own purpose in life, as individuals and as a society, that including discovering the wonders of the universe.

Love it when words are changed for ones own ends it normally means they cannot think out of thier tiny box. We are not talking about the universe we are talking about humans, the purpose of life is to live it as skilfully as possible. You can argue around that but for individuals to have the ability to determine their own destiny is more by chance than self determinism the right opportunities, and environment have to occur in order for an individual to progress, the chance of an individual living in a slum in Mexico or India to have the opportunities to discover the wonders of the universe when often thier every waking moment is about survival is pretty slim.