What would happen to Nuclear Power Stations if…

[105.4]

Thanks all who have contributed their knowledge to this thread. As my Grandfather always used to tell me, “every day is a school day”.

To those of you in the power generation industry, may I ask, what are your thoughts on the proposed fusion reactor to be based at West Burton, Nottinghamshire, (within sight of my house)?

[hidetheelephants]

105.4 said:

Thanks all who have contributed their knowledge to this thread. As my Grandfather always used to tell me, “every day is a school day”.

To those of you in the power generation industry, may I ask, what are your thoughts on the proposed fusion reactor to be based at West Burton, Nottinghamshire, (within sight of my house)?

You're quite safe, not least because it won't be in service before the 2040s.

[annodomini2]

105.4 said:

Thanks all who have contributed their knowledge to this thread. As my Grandfather always used to tell me, “every day is a school day”.

To those of you in the power generation industry, may I ask, what are your thoughts on the proposed fusion reactor to be based at West Burton, Nottinghamshire, (within sight of my house)?

Fusion is a totally different kettle of fish to Fission.

It will emit neutrons just as fission reactors do, but be shielded just as existing fission plants are.

They can be shutdown immediately unlike fission and the challenge will be keeping it running rather than worrying about stopping it.

[Gary C]

I am surprised that we think we are near enough to think we can build one.

Time will tell of course.

[Captain Smerc]

Gary C said:

I am surprised that we think we are near enough to think we can build one.

Time will tell of course.

Perhaps we're at a 'needs must" moment in time?

[hidetheelephants]

Captain Smerc said:

Gary C said:

I am surprised that we think we are near enough to think we can build one.

Time will tell of course.

Perhaps we're at a 'needs must" moment in time?

If we're at a 'needs must' moment I'd think building things we know how to build more important than mithering about things we might know how to build in 2040.

[ColinGreaves]

TGCOTF-dewey said:

Gary C said:

Remember reading about that one at work.

The one that always gets me is SL1 when the operator withdrawing a manual control rod, caused a criticality that blew the rod out of the core and impaled the operator to the roof.

I've got some photos of that accident on my work computer... Bodies were effectively treated as HL waste. I'll see if I can find them, they're SFW and public domain.

TBH given the practices in the 50s and 60s, and the lack of understanding of what they were playing with, I'm amazed more big accidents didn't happen.

This is a very good book on the subject in the context of how the army, the navy and airforce in those days handled nuclear.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Atomic-America-Explosion-...

If you want just a synopsis of the accident this is excellent summary by the author in a podcast. 50 mins but worth the time to listen.

https://mynuclearlife.com/episode/death-by-control...

The book is very readable, all details but not dry.

[Captain Smerc]

hidetheelephants said:

Captain Smerc said:

Gary C said:

I am surprised that we think we are near enough to think we can build one.

Time will tell of course.

Perhaps we're at a 'needs must" moment in time?

If we're at a 'needs must' moment I'd think building things we know how to build more important than mithering about things we might know how to build in 2040.

Yes, perhaps so but change is inevitable one way or another.

[Gary C]

ColinGreaves said:

TGCOTF-dewey said:

Gary C said:

Remember reading about that one at work.

The one that always gets me is SL1 when the operator withdrawing a manual control rod, caused a criticality that blew the rod out of the core and impaled the operator to the roof.

I've got some photos of that accident on my work computer... Bodies were effectively treated as HL waste. I'll see if I can find them, they're SFW and public domain.

TBH given the practices in the 50s and 60s, and the lack of understanding of what they were playing with, I'm amazed more big accidents didn't happen.

This is a very good book on the subject in the context of how the army, the navy and airforce in those days handled nuclear.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Atomic-America-Explosion-...

If you want just a synopsis of the accident this is excellent summary by the author in a podcast. 50 mins but worth the time to listen.

https://mynuclearlife.com/episode/death-by-control...

The book is very readable, all details but not dry.

I worked with a lad who had just finished working on a project to encapsulate one of the building where the UK machined the Plutonium for our bomb. They apparently covered the entire building with a jelly like substance and injected the ground underneath to form a complete seal.

[annodomini2]

Captain Smerc said:

hidetheelephants said:

Captain Smerc said:

Gary C said:

I am surprised that we think we are near enough to think we can build one.

Time will tell of course.

Perhaps we're at a 'needs must" moment in time?

If we're at a 'needs must' moment I'd think building things we know how to build more important than mithering about things we might know how to build in 2040.

Yes, perhaps so but change is inevitable one way or another.

We need both, we need fast Fission reactors to deal with the stocks of "spent" fuel and reduce the nuclear waste life cycle to something manageable e.g. (200yrs Vs 10000)

We need the fusion research to continue so we can move beyond fission and have a practical energy future. Especially if we want to move beyond Earth.

[Whoozit]

I visited JET when in prep school in the early 80s. Even back then, at that age, it seemed to be the future. A shame the fusion problem has proven so hard to crack.

Roofless Toothless said:

I am always puzzled by this point of view. It would follow that 99% of our greatest talents - artists, musicians, scientists, inventors, philosophers - would also be absent.

Possibly there is a critical mass of genius without which humanity as a species would not thrive. A tiny population would mean a very bleak future.

Off topic - It's somewhat dealt with in the We Are Legion (We Are Bob) book/audiobook series where the evacuation of Earth is ongoing. After a war, just a few enclaves are left, nuclear winter means crops are failing, there is no easy way to communicate, even to find out where other survivors are. Extreme distrust of anyone else and fighting for any advantage to be first.

Edited by Whoozit on Monday 13th March 11:41

[Simpo Two]

Whoozit said:

Off topic - It's somewhat dealt with in the We Are Legion (We Are Bob) book/audiobook series where the evacuation of Earth is ongoing. After a war, just a few enclaves are left, nuclear winter means crops are failing, there is no easy way to communicate, even to find out where other survivors are. Extreme distrust of anyone else and fighting for any advantage to be first.

I'm not convinced. If I was on my own after a global catastrophe I would want to find others and look to make friends not enemies, to combine skills. Humans are not solitary, they form groups, villages, towns and so on.

[TGCOTF-dewey]

TGCOTF-dewey said:

Gary C said:

Remember reading about that one at work.

The one that always gets me is SL1 when the operator withdrawing a manual control rod, caused a criticality that blew the rod out of the core and impaled the operator to the roof.

I've got some photos of that accident on my work computer... Bodies were effectively treated as HL waste. I'll see if I can find them, they're SFW and public domain.

TBH given the practices in the 50s and 60s, and the lack of understanding of what they were playing with, I'm amazed more big accidents didn't happen.

Found the photos of the accident...

Summary and photos can be seen here if anyone is interested.

https://radiationworks.com/sl1reactor.htm

[annodomini2]

Simpo Two said:

Whoozit said:

Off topic - It's somewhat dealt with in the We Are Legion (We Are Bob) book/audiobook series where the evacuation of Earth is ongoing. After a war, just a few enclaves are left, nuclear winter means crops are failing, there is no easy way to communicate, even to find out where other survivors are. Extreme distrust of anyone else and fighting for any advantage to be first.

I'm not convinced. If I was on my own after a global catastrophe I would want to find others and look to make friends not enemies, to combine skills. Humans are not solitary, they form groups, villages, towns and so on.

The problem is multiple fold, but fundamentally in that situation:

1. People will be in panic mode, they've had it relatively easy and needing to survive will be well beyond many people's comfort zone.
2. We're conditioned by the media et al, to mistrust those outside our immediate group, in this scenario that will likely become your immediate family.
3. Some will congregate into communities, but there will be outliers who will seek to take advantage (see current politicians)

[Simpo Two]

annodomini2 said:

1. People will be in panic mode, they've had it relatively easy and needing to survive will be well beyond many people's comfort zone.
2. We're conditioned by the media et al, to mistrust those outside our immediate group, in this scenario that will likely become your immediate family.
3. Some will congregate into communities, but there will be outliers who will seek to take advantage (see current politicians)

fk it, in that case I'll track down hidetheelephants and borrow his breech loader

But yes, in a genuine survival situation most of us would die from hunger or cold because 'civilisation' has taken over. You only have to look at those reality TV shows on tropical islands where all they can do in four days is catch a mouse and argue a lot.

[annodomini2]

Simpo Two said:

annodomini2 said:

1. People will be in panic mode, they've had it relatively easy and needing to survive will be well beyond many people's comfort zone.
2. We're conditioned by the media et al, to mistrust those outside our immediate group, in this scenario that will likely become your immediate family.
3. Some will congregate into communities, but there will be outliers who will seek to take advantage (see current politicians)

fk it, in that case I'll track down hidetheelephants and borrow his breech loader

But yes, in a genuine survival situation most of us would die from hunger or cold because 'civilisation' has taken over. You only have to look at those reality TV shows on tropical islands where all they can do in four days is catch a mouse and argue a lot.

"A person is smart, people are dumb, panicky animals and you know it!"

Name the film

[Gary C]

MiB

[annodomini2]

Gary C said:

MiB

[donkmeister]

The rather excellent but sadly cancelled comedy series "Last Man In Earth" covered this in the final series, albeit in a non-scientific way for comedy/plot value.

[Allegro_Snapon]

Even after the last human of our current race has died, there will still be managers pushing paperwork around at BNFL Sell-off-a-field. Note having worked at that place, I do not class managers there of being of the "human" race.