Climate Change - The Scientific Debate

[BJWoods]

This should be of interest, and a sceptical sounding BBC as well!!
Following on from the missing 50 million climate refugees by 2010 on Watts Up
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/04/15/the-un-disap...


The BBC reports on the disappearing UN 50 million Climate refugee map story in the blogosphere and interviews the Nornman Myers (his figures) and the blogger that spotted the disappearing map...

BBC - More or Less (8th May 2011)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/console/b010xykh

In this week's programme:

"The blogosphere has been awash with accusations of a climate change conspiracy. The UN, it's claimed, tried to cover up a prediction made about "climate refugees". More or Less investigates."

The BBC's take is quite interesting and even sceptical!......... and interviews the blogger that spotted the story and the researcher behind the figures (Norman Myers) and experts that think the figure were always rubbish, also mentioned figures picked up by the IPCC used in the Stern report, etc, etc....

The BBC reporters highlights the error message on the missing map page.. and makes fun

"The error message reads: Dear visitor, it seems like the map you are navigating by is maybe not fully up-to-date, or that it might have an error in it, or is it that your GPS is not loaded with the correct data? We are just taking the scenic route, darling! See Honey, We're not lost. I know where we are: This way I think... mmm!"
.
Also - quotes experts - saying the 50 million figure is and was nonsense, and makes the point, it was made by an environmentalist used it to SCARE politicians and the public into action..

A MUST listen....

BBC reporter: If you can't prove that there are [Environment refugees], we should not be making the statement.. we can't prove it

response: Quote of the week? -

'You can't prove that smoking cause cancer, Science is never ever completely final, Science is always a bit iffy'

from Norman Myers, when challenged that the 50 million refugees was shown to be wrong.

he still believes though.....

[turbobloke]

Hypotheses, and data, can be falsified absolutely. The claim made amounts to weasel words.

The opposite is where it's more 'iffy' but only in the sense of scientific enquiry advancing contingent truth not absolute truth.

Either people who should know, don't know enough, or they know and therefore knowingly misrepresent the situation with spin and smoke and mirrors.

Same old.

[jesta1865]

Guam said:

Banned due to ongoing trolling behaviour in essence (he has been banned from previous threads) HTH, any further discussion on this, should take place in Website feedback.


Cheers

i see, i wasn't saying it was wrong just that it gave the other side the ammo for the same accusations we point at them.

he did seem arrogant and aggressive.

ok now to try and make sense of this lot

[Tsippy]

mybrainhurts said:

Guam said:

...how Ironic is this then? Vatican holds Conference on Glacial melt ROFLMAO

http://scrippsnews.ucsd.edu/Releases/?releaseID=11...

Oh, strewth...

Here comes another Inquisition, and it's worse than previously thought...

Run for the hills...

The church needs to keep up, the Followers of Climate bks is the fastest growing religion at present and is sponsored by world government. If Mr Pope does not jump on the bandwagon now the poor Catholics could be left behind as bribing those Africans to become Catholic in exchange for water facilities is a slow process compared to the MMGW indoctrination farms known as Western schools

[grumbledoak]

jesta1865 said:

he did seem arrogant and aggressive.

That's about the biggest clue you'll ever get that someone is clueless.

[kerplunk]

Guam said:

Best of all though, how can the other side now criticise sceptical scientists, because of their faith, accusing them of being "creationists" now that the worlds foremost "Creationist" is on board.

If I was religous then this would truly be Eco Manna from heaven LOL

Creationists are Genesis fundamentalists which leads them to deny what science tells us about the age of the planet/evolution etc. They make arguments like because there's no proof of evolution therefore evolution's wide acceptance is like a religion and because science is all about proof (fundamentalism again) therefore evolution is a pseudo-science and our kids are being brain-washed!

Now, there are obvious similarities to such creationist views on these AGW threads (eg. Tsippy yesterday 23.03) and hence the comparisons drawn, BUT it isn't a general reference to people who believe in a deity as that doesn't necessarily preclude a healthy respect for science. The pope does not espouse creationist views.

[kerplunk]

Guam said:

Not really the point , the creationist meme has been hurled around here and elsewhere, at anyone of a skeptical disposition.

Some scepticism is warranted imo so a scattergun argument like that would be invalid. I've made the comparisons specifically in regards to the demand for proof.

Guam said:

Not all scientists Of faith are fundamentalists, as for the Pope his attempts to swivel on a stick tosave the church, do not change the fundamentals of it's teaching. there is no way the church can throw out genesis completely.

They don't have to completely - let there be light sounds a lot like the big bang to me

[nelly1]

Forget the Creationists and the Vatican...

The Climate Rappers are now onside.

See here...

You've got to love the lyrics:-

Some 'Scientists' who should know better said:

yo....we're climate scientists.. and there's no denying this Climate Change Is REEEEALL..



Who's a climate scientist..

I'm a climate scientist..

Not a cleo finalist

No a climate scientist



Droppin facts all over this wax

While bhes be crying about a carbon tax

Climate change is caused by people

Earth Unlike Alien Has no sequel

We gotta move fast or we'll be forsaken,

Cause we were too busy suckin dick Copenhagen: (Politician)



I said Burn! it's hot in here..

32% more carbon in the atmosphere.

Oh Eee Ohh Eee oh wee ice ice ice

Raisin' sea levels twice by twice

We're scientists, what we speak is True.

Unlike Andrew Bolt our work is Peer Reviewed... ooohhh



Who's a climate scientist..

I'm a climate scientist..

An Anglican revivalist

No a climate scientist



Feedback is like climate change on crack

The permafrosts subtracts: feedback

Methane release wack : feedback..

Write a letter then burn it: feedback

Denialists deny this in your dreams

Coz climate change means greater extremes,

st won't be the norm

Heatwaves bigger badder storms

The Green house effect is just a theory sucker (Alan Jones)

Yeah so is gravity float away muther f**cker



Who's a climate scientist..

I'm a climate scientist..

I'm not a climate Scientist

Who's Climate Scientists

A Penny Farthing Cyclist

No

A Lebanese typist

No

A Paleontologist

No

A Sebaceous Cyst

No! a climate scientist! Yo! PREACH!

WORD!

[The Excession]

nelly1 said:

Forget the Creationists and the Vatican...

The Climate Rappers are now onside.

See here...

You've got to love the lyrics:-


WORD!

Jesus fking aitch Christ that is appalling.

I mean we all know that Brian Cox was singing in D-Ream and still just about manages to come across as a fairly sensible physicist. But what the hell are this lot playing at?

Are these people '4-real'? Aye?

W.T.F?

Can we expect the science of climate change to be decided in a Eurovision Song Contest soon?

[nelly1]

The Excession said:

...But what the hell are this lot playing at?

It's either another poor attempt at humour a'la 10:10, or a genuine appeal to get more 'yoof' onboard.
Whichever, it's really pretty awful!

[mybrainhurts]

I bloody hate rap...

Might just seek out a climate scientist now and smear dog's vomit on his toast...

[nelly1]

How about 'Climate Change - The Musical Debate'?

[nelly1]

Back on topic, we haven't had any graphs for a while...

From the AMSU temps site:-






And from Dr Roy Spencer:-



Hardly 'runaway' warming?

Still, April was the 'Warmest Ever'...

[thinfourth2]

nelly1 said:

How about 'Climate Change - The Musical Debate'?

The only problem with that is it hinges entirely on what Lemmy sayes as Lemmy is god

[nelly1]

thinfourth2 said:

nelly1 said:

How about 'Climate Change - The Musical Debate'?

The only problem with that is it hinges entirely on what Lemmy sayes as Lemmy is god

Whereas Bono is... ?

[thinfourth2]

nelly1 said:

thinfourth2 said:

nelly1 said:

How about 'Climate Change - The Musical Debate'?

The only problem with that is it hinges entirely on what Lemmy sayes as Lemmy is god

Whereas Bono is... ?

Isn't that the SI unit of smugness.

I'm sure the prius has a readout on its display that has the milliBono as the units.

[Ali G]

nelly1 said:

Back on topic, we haven't had any graphs for a while...

From the AMSU temps site:-






And from Dr Roy Spencer:-



Hardly 'runaway' warming?

Still, April was the 'Warmest Ever'...

So here's my dumb question!

Why does the average temperature of the earth seem to vary with seasons?

If it were a true average, would it not be relatively constant?

Does this have something to do with differing proportions of sea and land mass being exposed during the year, or are we observing relatively localised effects impacting on the global average.

Just some ramblings!

[VPower]

Ali G said:

nelly1 said:

Back on topic, we haven't had any graphs for a while...

From the AMSU temps site:-






And from Dr Roy Spencer:-



Hardly 'runaway' warming?

Still, April was the 'Warmest Ever'...

So here's my dumb question!

Why does the average temperature of the earth seem to vary with seasons?

If it were a true average, would it not be relatively constant?

Does this have something to do with differing proportions of sea and land mass being exposed during the year, or are we observing relatively localised effects impacting on the global average.

Just some ramblings!

AND! Why in all 4 graphs is April this year colder than last year and yet it is declared the hottest ever?

I suspect April was just weather?

[perdu]

VPower said:

Ali G said:

nelly1 said:

Back on topic, we haven't had any graphs for a while...

From the AMSU temps site:-






And from Dr Roy Spencer:-



Hardly 'runaway' warming?

Still, April was the 'Warmest Ever'...

So here's my dumb question!

Why does the average temperature of the earth seem to vary with seasons?

If it were a true average, would it not be relatively constant?

Does this have something to do with differing proportions of sea and land mass being exposed during the year, or are we observing relatively localised effects impacting on the global average.

Just some ramblings!

AND! Why in all 4 graphs is April this year colder than last year and yet it is declared the hottest ever?

I suspect April was just weather?

I liked the April weather




not science so I'd better

[rovermorris999]

Just a quick query - in the May 7th edition of the Economist there's an article about climate change and crop yields. They've gone down a little apparently but compared to a computer model of what the yields would have been with today's farming methods with the 1980's climate. bks in other words. But I digress, the query...the article talks about climate change in the distant past and states 'spikes in prehistoric temperatures correlated with natural releases of greenhouse gas'. Is this true? The inference is that the gas caused the temperature rise but it could be read both ways. Also the 'gas' could have been from volcanic activity but this isn't made clear. What's the consensus if there is one?