Total tool Confusion... who STILL makes quality?
Discussion
Another vote for Halfords Pro stuff for the weekend tinkerer. I've got the big 150pc set which is useful but until I bought a TVR I hadn't used a single one of the AF/imperial sockets/spanners, so worth considering if you don't work on old stuff.
Do they guarantee the ratchets? Some say yes, some say no. Mine still work fine although the direction selector on one of mine spins through 360 degrees!
Something slightly annoying is the lack of some stuff - I was after a rail of decent hex sockets (Not a fan of 12 points as they usually end up rounding off the bolt IME), can't remember where mine came from in the end. Broke an ?18mm I think it was on a brake caliper carrier, popped down to my halfords hoping to find an impact hex 1/4in drive socket - no luck, in fact nothing at all in 6 point which was disappointing. Had to get something online which was annoying as the car was up on axle stands.
Do they guarantee the ratchets? Some say yes, some say no. Mine still work fine although the direction selector on one of mine spins through 360 degrees!
Something slightly annoying is the lack of some stuff - I was after a rail of decent hex sockets (Not a fan of 12 points as they usually end up rounding off the bolt IME), can't remember where mine came from in the end. Broke an ?18mm I think it was on a brake caliper carrier, popped down to my halfords hoping to find an impact hex 1/4in drive socket - no luck, in fact nothing at all in 6 point which was disappointing. Had to get something online which was annoying as the car was up on axle stands.
rsv gone! said:
4v6 said:
Teng Tools are reputed to be good as are Kamasa.
I have a few Teng tools and a 3/8" drive set. It is very well made and strong and the ratchets are very good. The only problem is that the sockets show signs of some corrosion - and I take care of my tools.I have a few Sealey tools. I have a 1/2" 6-point set that seems well put together. Most handy set is a deep impact socket set.
Have some Wera aviation spanners that are pretty good, as is Stawhallie (spelling).
Everything else isn't worth the effort. (IMO).
I use the spanners 6 days a week, so I'm pretty familiar with most of the issues and problems
I worked at Halfords for a couple of years after the army they did transfer over from having to need the receipts for the tools to just having a spanner with the name branding on asking as it wasn't clearly damaged by neglect or misused in anyway to make the halfords brand of tools more reputable they are required to exchange the tool be it a spanner or socket that includes the ratchet mechanism as it's still part of the tool, the only issue is the difference between one sales person and another in regards to faulty or damaged and misused.
The only issue is the supplier they use I think it was cobalt or something at the time and they couldn't keep up with the supply of the tools being replaced I've since been in with a 13mm spanner and they had to put it on back order that was about a year ago so unless they have a set of spares , torx he'd and sockets are immediately replaced with off the shelf items only the spanners aren't sold as singles apart from the combo ones.
So replacing on that side is a bit iffy but ratchets and mechanisms are covered.
The only issue is the supplier they use I think it was cobalt or something at the time and they couldn't keep up with the supply of the tools being replaced I've since been in with a 13mm spanner and they had to put it on back order that was about a year ago so unless they have a set of spares , torx he'd and sockets are immediately replaced with off the shelf items only the spanners aren't sold as singles apart from the combo ones.
So replacing on that side is a bit iffy but ratchets and mechanisms are covered.
sparkythecat said:
I asked on another tool thread whether the Bergen stuff was any good, but no one seemed to know. There's usually loads of it for sale at auto jumbles and the like. Are they decent quality German tools, or is it just cheap Chinese stuff that's been given a Germanic name?
I've also used a few Bergen sockets seem solid enough 
leafspring said:
The Swedish made Bahco stuff is still superb... the new spanners (made in Argentina) just look poorly made with rough finish, the ring ends look thin and they are very light 
I expected better.
Never tried Laser
Usually have Clarke Pro, Draper Pro, Halfords Pro, Hilka, Stanley and Bahco (labelled 'made in Sweden')
If your now doing a Profesdional Mechanics job then you really need to look at augmenting your tools selectively with some proper Pro tools. I expected better.Never tried Laser
Usually have Clarke Pro, Draper Pro, Halfords Pro, Hilka, Stanley and Bahco (labelled 'made in Sweden')
My cousin works on heavy lorrys and as huge selection of Snap On and MAC tools built up over time.
The MAC tools dealer does a cheaper range of Pro tools still with a lifetime guarantee which I am about to buy from after snapping a 3/4" socket extender and 3 sockets.
Most of the smaller sockets and drivers don't get much abuse it's the bigger stuff that I try and buy the better tools
What do Snap On and Mac tools do that, for example, my Teng sockets sets won't? I bought a Clarke (which looks like a rebranded Laser) extendable 3/4 inch drive ratchet for undoing tractor wheel nuts. If for example I'd bought a Snap On one, what would be better?
I borrowed a Snap On set of circlip pliers with replaceable ends and which the owner proundly told me cost 180 quid. Frankly, they were s
t and the circlip stayed put. So I bought another set of Knipex pliers that fit the circlip and had it removed in about 5 seconds. An experience with a gas Snap On soldering iron was similar, bloody expensive and not as good as a cheapo Halfords one. I had a look at one of the tractor dealers Snap On tool chests. It was nice, but not 4 times as nice as the one I got from Machine Mart.
I don't make my living with my tools but use them most days. I've got Teng, CK, Draper, Gedore, King Dick, Britool, Clarke and Knipex off the top of my head.
I borrowed a Snap On set of circlip pliers with replaceable ends and which the owner proundly told me cost 180 quid. Frankly, they were s
t and the circlip stayed put. So I bought another set of Knipex pliers that fit the circlip and had it removed in about 5 seconds. An experience with a gas Snap On soldering iron was similar, bloody expensive and not as good as a cheapo Halfords one. I had a look at one of the tractor dealers Snap On tool chests. It was nice, but not 4 times as nice as the one I got from Machine Mart. I don't make my living with my tools but use them most days. I've got Teng, CK, Draper, Gedore, King Dick, Britool, Clarke and Knipex off the top of my head.
Willy Nilly said:
What do Snap On and Mac tools do that, for example, my Teng sockets sets won't? I bought a Clarke (which looks like a rebranded Laser) extendable 3/4 inch drive ratchet for undoing tractor wheel nuts. If for example I'd bought a Snap On one, what would be better?
Well, not much really, but what you're really paying for is warranty back-up, if you're a mechanic working in a dealership and you break a 3/8 ratchet, you should be able to call your local Snap On or Mac dealer up and he's supposed to trot round pronto with a replacement, at least that's the theory. My understanding is having spoken to quite a few heavy plant mechanics, 3/4" stuff doesn't need to be expensive as its inherently strong, that surprised me as I thought you'd want a decent quality tool at those sort of sizes.
I have a varied selection of different makes including Snap On and Mac, in my opinion, Snap On are trading on an old reputation, I personally don't think that Snap On (ratchets possibly being the exception) are as good as they were say 20 years ago, a lot of this could be down to legislation which has forced tool manufacturers to change the way they produce certain items, chrome plating for example isn't as good as it was due to regs on chemicals used, I've returned a couple of sets of new Snap On spanners because the quality was diabolical, long ring spanners that were so bent they were almost crescent spanners! and bad chrome defects. All of their sockets and wrenches/spanners are still made in the U.S by Snap On, other items such as punches and picks etc are outsourced but still by good quality U.S companies (Mayhew, Lisle, Channel lock etc)
Mac Tools is owned by Stanley Black & Decker who also own Facom, DeWalt, Britool Expert and a few others, I think Mac socketry is U.S made but their spanners can vary, their Precision Torque range of spanners (coincidently almost the same design as Facom and Toptul spanners) are actually really nice and really well finished, better than Snap On in fact, but they're made in Taiwan so Country of Origin isn't so relevant these days.
Halfords Pro, Signet, Gearwrench, Toptul and Bluepoint (although Bluepoint is a Snap On brand, they outsource the products) and quite a few others are produced by Danaher in Thailand.
Teng is owned by a Swedish company, manufactured in Taiwan, alright quality but nothing amazing, they have a satin finish which is quite handy when your hands are oily but their fibre/plastic ratchets are quite unrefined and not particularly nice to use, I will admit that Teng do some really handy sets of which I own a few, i have one box of fitted socketry that includes metric & imperial, spanners, pliers and cutters etc, I can literally take that one box with me whether I'm in my Mini or BMW and know that I've got pretty much all I need for most average tinkering, many other manufacturers could learn a thing or two about tools sets from Teng, just not the quality necessarily.
Facom used to be superb, the French made stuff is very good quality and well worth buying used if you find it, the modern stuff is still very nice, as mentioned previously, Facom are part of the Stanley group and made in Thailand, I think there are some French made socket sets in metal boxes still out there to buy new but they are very expensive! Facom ratchets are (or were) lovely, at one point they were more refined than Snap On until their 80-tooth ratchets came out, Facom's 1/4 ratchet is an all-time favourite of mine and I also have a few Facom socket sets, the sockets themselves are nothing to write home about though. I believe that Facom have changed the design of their classic ratchets so you can't rebuild them, definitely a cost-cutting exercise which is never good.
Draper, I dislike them and it's not snobbery, I don't abuse my tools but I've had far too much Draper snap or break to make me ever buy it again, having said that, I have a few odd Draper Expert spanners and they feel lovely, really well made and nice thick, quality chrome, I bought a rusty old Draper 46mm spanner off eBay for a couple of quid and it polished up like new.
Gedore is an oddity, generally, like Stahwille, they're German and generally very good, however, be careful as some Gedore is made in South Africa and it's junk, you can find a lot of it on eBay so caveat emptor!
My general all-round favourite has to be Koken, they're Japanese and very very well made, very good quality and quite sensibly priced, the only problem is availability although uktools do sell a really go range, Koken's ratchets aren't anywhere near as nice as Snap On/Mac/Facom though. I've also started looking at Sealey's range again as their range is quite varied and their warranty is excellent.
There are many other decent makes out there, check out the garage journal forum, it's U.S based but there's a really good thread entitled 'Tools From The Old World' that's very informative about European makes.
I do like the teng stuff we have a few service engineers who use exclusively teng, should mention we build and maintain agricultural machinery so size ranges from 10mm all the way up to 36 ish don’t use much bigger.
On usage side if it’s mucky heavy graft work which agricultural stuff normally is all the engineers agree buy middle of the range like teng, halfords, Gearwrench Basically something with a good warranty so can be replaced the same week etc or isn’t to expensive if lost.
Garage Work wise if it’s the old snap on stuff hands down Great kit new stuff doesn’t seem to stand up half the time no better than a lot of cheaper stuff. We sheared a 1/2 drive snapon breaker bar a few weeks back went over to a bacho one no problem so no idea what’s going off on there quality. Cost vs quality doesn’t add up from personal and colleague’s experience.
Just done reluctor rings on other half’s bmw this weekend with my halfords gear, no complaints on the smaller stuff or the bigger bits considering I use my own tools for work and personal use it’s been what 6 plus years since i first brought the halfords set , I had a cheap draper and Bergen set before that that was fine, it’s all used daily 10 hours a day min of 5 days a week and still solid. Like the fact I can go replace anything the same day if needs be (stock depending). Since Work won’t replace tools if broken I like to have my base covered.
However the ratchets leave a lot to be desired bacho ratchets are like day and night to the halfords stuff.
Be nice to know what people rate for hobby/ work tools and how long they’ve lasted.
On usage side if it’s mucky heavy graft work which agricultural stuff normally is all the engineers agree buy middle of the range like teng, halfords, Gearwrench Basically something with a good warranty so can be replaced the same week etc or isn’t to expensive if lost.
Garage Work wise if it’s the old snap on stuff hands down Great kit new stuff doesn’t seem to stand up half the time no better than a lot of cheaper stuff. We sheared a 1/2 drive snapon breaker bar a few weeks back went over to a bacho one no problem so no idea what’s going off on there quality. Cost vs quality doesn’t add up from personal and colleague’s experience.
Just done reluctor rings on other half’s bmw this weekend with my halfords gear, no complaints on the smaller stuff or the bigger bits considering I use my own tools for work and personal use it’s been what 6 plus years since i first brought the halfords set , I had a cheap draper and Bergen set before that that was fine, it’s all used daily 10 hours a day min of 5 days a week and still solid. Like the fact I can go replace anything the same day if needs be (stock depending). Since Work won’t replace tools if broken I like to have my base covered.
However the ratchets leave a lot to be desired bacho ratchets are like day and night to the halfords stuff.
Be nice to know what people rate for hobby/ work tools and how long they’ve lasted.
Willy Nilly said:
What do Snap On and Mac tools do that, for example, my Teng sockets sets won't? I bought a Clarke (which looks like a rebranded Laser) extendable 3/4 inch drive ratchet for undoing tractor wheel nuts. If for example I'd bought a Snap On one, what would be better?
I borrowed a Snap On set of circlip pliers with replaceable ends and which the owner proundly told me cost 180 quid. Frankly, they were st and the circlip stayed put. So I bought another set of Knipex pliers that fit the circlip and had it removed in about 5 seconds. An experience with a gas Snap On soldering iron was similar, bloody expensive and not as good as a cheapo Halfords one. I had a look at one of the tractor dealers Snap On tool chests. It was nice, but not 4 times as nice as the one I got from Machine Mart.
I don't make my living with my tools but use them most days. I've got Teng, CK, Draper, Gedore, King Dick, Britool, Clarke and Knipex off the top of my head.
Anything pliers cutters or grips knipex are the bI borrowed a Snap On set of circlip pliers with replaceable ends and which the owner proundly told me cost 180 quid. Frankly, they were s
t and the circlip stayed put. So I bought another set of Knipex pliers that fit the circlip and had it removed in about 5 seconds. An experience with a gas Snap On soldering iron was similar, bloody expensive and not as good as a cheapo Halfords one. I had a look at one of the tractor dealers Snap On tool chests. It was nice, but not 4 times as nice as the one I got from Machine Mart. I don't make my living with my tools but use them most days. I've got Teng, CK, Draper, Gedore, King Dick, Britool, Clarke and Knipex off the top of my head.
ks hands down nothing else comes close. Like the geodre spanners solid and dependable not used any Britool stuff in a while though other than a few sockets.
Anyone on her got a set of facom spanners? Opinions?
Edited by Danjwilko on Sunday 29th October 10:56
The below should help to clear up who makes what.A few surprises for myself!
http://toolguyd.com/tool-brands-corporate-affiliat...
http://toolguyd.com/tool-brands-corporate-affiliat...
Danjwilko said:
Anyone on her got a set of facom spanners? Opinions?
I bought a Facom trolley about one and a half years ago, which of course included a set of spanners (normal and ratcheting). I've been really chuffed with them (and what's in the rest of the drawers). It's purely for working on my own cars, so I only use them twice a weak for a couple of hours. I chose Facom after a recommendation from a friend and the lifetime guarantee is also quite nice.
In 1969 Britool were taken over by James Neill and therefore became "a member of the James Neill group of companies". James Neill was a tool making conglomerate, based in Sheffield, which included not only Britool but Eclipse, M&W, P S Stubbs and Elliott Lucas. Neills claimed to be one of the largest tool manufacturing organisations in the world.
In 1991 Britool was bought by the international group Facom and, at some point, around 1980, moved from Bushbury to Walsall Road, Cannock, where they still make a vast range of hand tools. The pictures below give some idea of the type and range of tools for which Britool were famous when they were in Wolverhampton.
2006: Stanley Works aacquired Facom
In 1991 Britool was bought by the international group Facom and, at some point, around 1980, moved from Bushbury to Walsall Road, Cannock, where they still make a vast range of hand tools. The pictures below give some idea of the type and range of tools for which Britool were famous when they were in Wolverhampton.
2006: Stanley Works aacquired Facom
The Halfords Pro stuff is pretty good.
I had a 10mm socket and a wobble joint give up on me though, but a quick trip to Halfords had them swapped for new ones with no fuss.
I changed the rear hub on my Mk5 Golf yesterday. The hub bolt laughed at my IR impact, then snapped my breaker bar when I tried that. Then I decided to have a go with the Halfords Pro 1/2" ratchet and cheater bar, and that got the bolt out no worries.
I had a 10mm socket and a wobble joint give up on me though, but a quick trip to Halfords had them swapped for new ones with no fuss.
I changed the rear hub on my Mk5 Golf yesterday. The hub bolt laughed at my IR impact, then snapped my breaker bar when I tried that. Then I decided to have a go with the Halfords Pro 1/2" ratchet and cheater bar, and that got the bolt out no worries.
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