Metal Combination Lathes

[StreetDragster]

Hi All,

I have limited space avalible to me in my garage and i'm considering a combination lathe, i.e a lathe with a milling/pillar drill attachment like a Clarke 500M.

Does anyone have any advice on a machine like this, or experiance of alternatives?
What are they like for getting spares, are they reliable, and major benefits or shortfalls with the design, etc?

It will be used for just general garage odds and sods, making the occasional thing, i won't be doing any major complicated manufacturing.

Thanks

Matt

[finishing touch]

I had a mate that bought one like that to make model steam engines. He said if you took too big a cut (still tiny) then the mill part would move where
it fixed to the lathe part. Lathes & mills made of folded stmetal flex when used.


Far better to buy a good old cast iron lathe. I have a Harrison that originally came from a metalwork classroom in a secondary school.
Ah! The good old days. The slides had been converted to metric, which is handy.

They may seem expensive but buy wisely and when or if you come to sell it you'll get every penny back.

With a little thought you can even mill on a lathe, tool in the chuck, work on the tool post.
Your not going to skim cylinder heads, but you'd give them to a pro machine shop anyway.


HTH
Paul G

[DVandrews]

finishing touch said:

I had a mate that bought one like that to make model steam engines. He said if you took too big a cut (still tiny) then the mill part would move where
it fixed to the lathe part. Lathes & mills made of folded stmetal flex when used.


Far better to buy a good old cast iron lathe. I have a Harrison that originally came from a metalwork classroom in a secondary school.
Ah! The good old days. The slides had been converted to metric, which is handy.

They may seem expensive but buy wisely and when or if you come to sell it you'll get every penny back.

With a little thought you can even mill on a lathe, tool in the chuck, work on the tool post.
Your not going to skim cylinder heads, but you'd give them to a pro machine shop anyway.


HTH
Paul G

This..

I was in the same situation,was considering a Clarke or similar and asked a friend who ran a machine shop, he advised me to buy an older cast iron lathe and I bought a old Myford for the princely sum of £200 and it came from an old boy who was moving away from the area, it came with over £400 of new tooling. It has been very useful indeed and given very little trouble. More importantly it is rock solid.

Dave

[finishing touch]

Sounds like that was too much of a bargain.

[tr7v8]

I have a Clarke 500. God knows where the folded sheet metal bullocks comes from. Mine is all cast iron and bloody heavy to boot. The mill is pretty rigid for a start, the taper is MT3 so capable of taking big mills etc.
The weird bit is that it's calibration is a mix of imperial and metric. No issue for me as I was taught both.

[finishing touch]

tr7v8 said:

I have a Clarke 500. God knows where the folded sheet metal bullocks comes from. Mine is all cast iron and bloody heavy to boot. The mill is pretty rigid for a start, the taper is MT3 so capable of taking big mills etc.
The weird bit is that it's calibration is a mix of imperial and metric. No issue for me as I was taught both.

Sorry, but the generic lathe/mill I saw was a casting bolted through a 1.5mm suds tray (no suds) to a cabinet from 3mm folded sheet.


Compare that to my Harrison that has a 1/4" tray welded to a 5/16" cabinet welded to a 5/8" base plate.
This sits on bitumen floor tiles to take up the irregularities in the concrete floor. (floated finish)


It was placed in position by a local farmer with his Merlo extending fork loader.

Paul G

[dhutch]

I haven't selected one for myself yet and can't add specifics, but my plan is a old/used lathe and separate pillar drill. I can't see a combination set being other than annoying.

Daniel

[tr7v8]

dhutch said:

I haven't selected one for myself yet and can't add specifics, but my plan is a old/used lathe and separate pillar drill. I can't see a combination set being other than annoying.

Daniel

I thought that might be the case but I find with planning it isn't too bad. Given time I'd want a plllar drill anyway so would buy a separate one.

[Mr2Mike]

finishing touch said:

Sorry, but the generic lathe/mill I saw was a casting bolted through a 1.5mm suds tray (no suds) to a cabinet from 3mm folded sheet.


Compare that to my Harrison that has a 1/4" tray welded to a 5/16" cabinet welded to a 5/8" base plate.
This sits on bitumen floor tiles to take up the irregularities in the concrete floor. (floated finish)


It was placed in position by a local farmer with his Merlo extending fork loader.

Paul G

Rigidity comes from the lathe bed, not the cabinet.

[tr7v8]

Mr2Mike said:

finishing touch said:

Sorry, but the generic lathe/mill I saw was a casting bolted through a 1.5mm suds tray (no suds) to a cabinet from 3mm folded sheet.


Compare that to my Harrison that has a 1/4" tray welded to a 5/16" cabinet welded to a 5/8" base plate.
This sits on bitumen floor tiles to take up the irregularities in the concrete floor. (floated finish)


It was placed in position by a local farmer with his Merlo extending fork loader.

Paul G

Quite right.
Rigidity comes from the lathe bed, not the cabinet.

[Mignon]

I can offer you a little advice as a professional engine builder and long time machinist. First decide what it is you want to ever make and how often. For the very occasional thing it'll be cheaper to ask a local machine shop or hobbyist metalworker. Play your cards right and they might let you use their machines every now and then. Another option is a course at your local tech college where you'll get use of all their machines with an instructor on hand to offer advice. Even schools have decent metalworking shops these days and if you're willing to pop in to sweep up and be generally useful every now and then you can get to use the machines when you need them.

For any machine the key to good results is rigidity. Without this you'll just get a chattery finish and only be able to take small cuts. Professional machines like Colchester, Harrison, Bridgeport have this built in. I could't really speak to little hobby stuff like Clarke as I haven't used it. I'd be wary though. My Colchester Student is 750kg of solid cast iron and there have been times I wish it was sturdier. Also an old machinist's saying. You can make small stuff on big machines but you can't make big stuff on small ones. If you want to skim a brake disc or a flywheel then you need a gap bed lathe that'll take a 12" item or bigger. A lathe with a gap bed is really handy.

The single most useful thing is a decent sized mill like a Bridgeport or similar clone and then you can skim blocks and heads, drill out broken bolts and make just about any object.

Find and join any local hobby engineering groups. Cultivate all the local engineering shops. Get to work on some machines and find out what it really involves.

[StreetDragster]

Thanks for all replies so far. I feel i need to add some detail

I appreciate that seperate, cast iron lathes, milling machines and drill presses are ideal, but i really do not have the space, the only option to me is the combination type lathe, hence the questions specifically about that.

I won't be doing any head skimming or similar on it, just small garage odds and sods. I have been making numerous things over the years where i have thougth to myself 'if i just have a lathe i could knock up a quick spacer/boss/etc' so its for that sort of situation.

15 years ago i was trained to aerospace standards on milling (vertical and horizontal) and lathes (3 and 4 jaw chucks) and i haven't used them since, looking to get back to know them again and see what i have forgotten, but i'm not a novice either.

Anyway, based on the relatively positive review of the Clarke in this thread, and a number of other similar reviews i've read online, i've bought one. Second hand, with alot of accessories, tooling and the stand, so its good value. If it doesn't work out for me i'll be able to sell it for what i bought it for i'm sure.

Thanks again for all help, very interesting.

Matt

[dhutch]

Thanks for posting back. Let us know how it's goes! Congratulations.

Daniel

[Stiggolas]

I was in the same boat last year, just wanted a lathe for small stuff. Looked all over for a Clarke second hand, couldn't find one then a work colleague offered me a Myford M type circa 1948 with all change wheels and the original cast iron stand. Lovely old thing

[prand]

Stiggolas said:

I was in the same boat last year, just wanted a lathe for small stuff. Looked all over for a Clarke second hand, couldn't find one then a work colleague offered me a Myford M type circa 1948 with all change wheels and the original cast iron stand. Lovely old thing

Interesting topic.I'd always thought use of a lathe is a lost art/trade, now reduced to very niche activities. So pleased to see it alive and well on PH.

A fair few years ago I can remember both my grandfathers and many uncles had one in the garage (or in one case the spare bedroom) that I used to mess about with odd bits of metal or wood.

Sadly most of these guys have died now, and the lathes have all been scrapped or sold. I was too young/stupid to realise they would be useful to me until too late.

[dhutch]

prand said:

Interesting topic.I'd always thought use of a lathe is a lost art/trade, now reduced to very niche activities.

Very much is commercially.

In my line of work I keep finding the only way to get even simple one off parts made is that is goes in a cnc machining center. Great if you want 500 off but the price you pay at single figure qtys makes you cry inside, because while it's easier for the younger guys to program it that machine it, your tying up a million pound machine for an hour.

That said, in the steam and model engineering circles, lots of it still. How much that sector dies out is the next question. Speaking as social media coordinator for the Steam Boat Association.

https://m.facebook.com/steamboatassociation/


Daniel

[robbocop33]

prand said:

Interesting topic.

Yes, so interesting i want a lathe now ffs! :-)
One of those 'man hankerings' most of us have. I recently purchased an olde worlde electric vertical drill, huge old lump of a thing, it's brilliant.

[GreenV8S]

dhutch said:

your tying up a million pound machine for an hour.

There are plenty of videos on YouTube showing CNC mills that look a couple of orders of magnitude cheaper than that, including DIY ones. Some are just a router spindle on a gantry from a 3d printer, but some look quite substantial. I get the impression that maker communities are getting more popular these days and you might find people willing to take a CNC job on either locally, or mail order, without the 'million pound machine' hourly rate.

[dhutch]

GreenV8S said:

There are plenty of videos on YouTube showing CNC mills that look a couple of orders of magnitude cheaper than that, including DIY ones. Some are just a router spindle on a gantry from a 3d printer, but some look quite substantial. I get the impression that maker communities are getting more popular these days and you might find people willing to take a CNC job on either locally, or mail order, without the 'million pound machine' hourly rate.

Yes, some of the 'consumer level's cnc and 3d printing stuff is getting remarkably capable. But in terms of commercial engineering shops, currently, there is a national shortage of machinist skills to turn out very low volume one off and prototype machined parts as well as repair and rectification work.

This is from simple spacers and bosses, managable sized shafts etc, right though to large chassis fabrications etc that need post machining.

Daniel

[GreenV8S]

That's very true.