What has happened to my lifters?

What has happened to my lifters?

Author
Discussion

ukkid35

Original Poster:

6,137 posts

172 months

Tuesday 19th November 2019
quotequote all
It looks like it's been etched, but I can't feel anything with my fingernail

Most have some degree of marking, but this one is probably the worst

The engine has only been run on about ten days over the last year, the last time was over four months ago


Chris32345

2,082 posts

61 months

Tuesday 19th November 2019
quotequote all
Rust?

ukkid35

Original Poster:

6,137 posts

172 months

Tuesday 19th November 2019
quotequote all
There's no sign of anything similar on other parts


GreenV8S

30,149 posts

283 months

Tuesday 19th November 2019
quotequote all
They look dry now. Were they covered in oil when removed?

ukkid35

Original Poster:

6,137 posts

172 months

Tuesday 19th November 2019
quotequote all
The engine suffered oil pump failure on idle with no load, which is why it is coming apart

However, there is no sign of damage to any of the cam caps or cams, and although the lifter wells had drained, they were not dry

stevieturbo

17,229 posts

246 months

Tuesday 19th November 2019
quotequote all
and the history of the cams and lifters ?

New, used, other ?

Boosted LS1

21,165 posts

259 months

Tuesday 19th November 2019
quotequote all
The lifters are under pressure and the oil will have been squeezed out as the supply dried up.

ukkid35

Original Poster:

6,137 posts

172 months

Wednesday 20th November 2019
quotequote all
stevieturbo said:
and the history of the cams and lifters ?

New, used, other ?
Cams are original, afaik

Original lifters were replaced with used perhaps 20k ago

Last time I saw them was about 2k ago, and there were no marks then

All surfaces were covered in oil, but they weren't bathed and partially submerged

stevieturbo

17,229 posts

246 months

Wednesday 20th November 2019
quotequote all
Lack of oil is obviously one thing, cam/lifter clearance is potentially another. Quality of lifter ? who knows, but if they lasted a previous 2k with zero marks, and it's only recently this happened, the lack of oil perhaps makes sense.

Megaflow

9,345 posts

224 months

Wednesday 20th November 2019
quotequote all
It doesn’t look like lack of oil, you can see where the cam has been running on the bucket and there surface there looks ok.

As they have been replaced, I’m going to speculate they are not OE buckets, and as the issue is outside of the cam contact area, I wonder if there is a coating on them that is breaking up.

Auntieroll

543 posts

183 months

Wednesday 20th November 2019
quotequote all
Megaflow said:
It doesn’t look like lack of oil, you can see where the cam has been running on the bucket and there surface there looks ok.

As they have been replaced, I’m going to speculate they are not OE buckets, and as the issue is outside of the cam contact area, I wonder if there is a coating on them that is breaking up.
From the pictures it looks like the case hardening on the lifter buckets is beginning to brinell, ie break up .
This is usually seen after much use , and is a sign that the contact surface has started to suffer a type of fatigue failure causing the break up of the hard surface layer.
Other causes can be excess stress caused by over strong/coil bound valve springs,
there appears to be some scuffing in places but it's difficult to tell as the pics were not very clear.
Scuffing is , as mentioned above ,generally caused by poor lubrication /materials mismatch.
HTH.

ukkid35

Original Poster:

6,137 posts

172 months

Thursday 21st November 2019
quotequote all
Auntieroll said:
Other causes can be excess stress caused by over strong/coil bound valve springs,
New standard valve springs were fitted 2k miles ago, however the std cams are aggressive with 0.5" lift

The valve seats were recut so I also shimmed the springs which may have increased spring pressure slightly overall

I don't really have the funds for a new set of lifters right now, and they would be relatively easy to replace later if my position improves, so is there any significant risk if I leave them be?

stevieturbo

17,229 posts

246 months

Thursday 21st November 2019
quotequote all
The risk would be damage to the cam lobes, then requiring both cam and lifters to need replaced.

I presume camshafts are a tad more expensive than the lifters ?

Auntieroll

543 posts

183 months

Thursday 21st November 2019
quotequote all
Continuing to run the engine with the followers deteriorating will be OK but.....,
The tiny shards of hardened steel will be carried round the engine in the oil
and will definitely NOT improve the overall condition of the rest of the internals !

That said , the filter should catch the larger particles and most of the smaller ones.
Many engines run for thousands of miles with wear like this and don't seem to suffer.
This engine ,however, is not renowned for trouble free operation (to say the least).
Bear in mind also that the cam lobes may well be ruined very quickly.

Not the answer you wanted ?
As budget is tight , the decision is yours alone but remember to factor in the possible
cost of new cams when you replace the followers.
FWIW I am a firm believer in " do it once ,do it right".

'Nuff said ,that's my 2p worth.

ukkid35

Original Poster:

6,137 posts

172 months

Thursday 21st November 2019
quotequote all
Auntieroll said:
Continuing to run the engine with the followers deteriorating will be OK but.....,
The tiny shards of hardened steel will be carried round the engine in the oil
and will definitely NOT improve the overall condition of the rest of the internals !
Thanks, hard to argue with that

Perhaps you could help identify what engine they are from originally - They are 42mm diameter, 27mm height and weigh 74g

FWIW the camshafts would cost £600 and the lifter set would be £350

stevieturbo

17,229 posts

246 months

Thursday 21st November 2019
quotequote all
Supertech, Kent, Piper, Arrow etc etc all sell various lifters

Diameter and height will be easy enough to find, but they will all also have varied stem heights inside that contact the valve depending on the arrangement.

Auntieroll

543 posts

183 months

Friday 22nd November 2019
quotequote all
Re identifying the source of the lifters...
Clear photos of the inside of them would help enormously.
The dimension from the valve stem contact point to the bottom of the skirt is vital.
As suspected , they are probably sourced from another engine and not specific to your engine.

spitfire4v8

3,989 posts

180 months

Thursday 28th November 2019
quotequote all
Seeing as al melling had a history with jaguar, and this looks very similar to the ajp follower, I would be investigating the jag route ?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/172180905482

stevieturbo

17,229 posts

246 months

Thursday 28th November 2019
quotequote all
spitfire4v8 said:
Seeing as al melling had a history with jaguar, and this looks very similar to the ajp follower, I would be investigating the jag route ?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/172180905482
Their quoted 1.625" as an oversize...is still smaller than the 42mm mentioned in this thread. 42mm seems a pretty big follower.

ukkid35

Original Poster:

6,137 posts

172 months

Thursday 28th November 2019
quotequote all
stevieturbo said:
spitfire4v8 said:
Seeing as al melling had a history with jaguar, and this looks very similar to the ajp follower, I would be investigating the jag route ?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/172180905482
Their quoted 1.625" as an oversize...is still smaller than the 42mm mentioned in this thread. 42mm seems a pretty big follower.
They certainly are similar, but the standard diameter appears to be 1.5" or 38.1mm

https://www.scparts.co.uk/sc_en/cam-follower-1-231...