EFB stop-start battery - Mondeo Mk4 1.6 Diesel
Discussion
Hi,
Long time lurker, first time poster - and as a petrol head who has kept my own felt going up to 250k miles and 20year old motors, I can't believe my first post is to do with something as simple as car batteries! Please be gentle.
Frustratingly I happened to notice that the battery voltage in my only ever modern car (2014 mk4.5 Mondeo 1.6 diesel with EFB stop-start battery) is showing as only 12.0V. Having on my other car just replaced a Bosch with another Bosch after 16 years, I'm disappointed that the original ford(Varta stickered) battery is dying after only 5.5 years, especially as both myself and the previous owner (brother) turn off the stop-start almost all the time.
So I want to replace with the best that I can to hopefully guarantee a longer life.
The best like for like I can find are Varta E46 or F22, or more likely a Bosch S4E10 / all 110 EFB from my favourite supplier Tayna for about £120 delivered with 3yr to 4yr warranty (but how to actually return?) Or I've just realised Halfords branded batteries seem to be made by Yuasa, and come with a 5year warranty, and would be much easier to return if the new one also starts to die in around 5 years.
Help appreciated with the following please...
1. Appreciate any experiences others have had of those 3 makes (Varta, Bosch, Halfords/Yuasa) re life of these EFB batteries?
2. And the really embarrassing question... How to fit?! I found 1 o2 references on the internet suggesting that there might be a codeing step once fitted (pressing rear fog light button x times, then hazard warning switch y times). However there is nothing in the manual. Any one if it is a straight normal swap, or whether I need to keep it powered in parallel during fit, or whether some coding is required?
Cheers
Long time lurker, first time poster - and as a petrol head who has kept my own felt going up to 250k miles and 20year old motors, I can't believe my first post is to do with something as simple as car batteries! Please be gentle.
Frustratingly I happened to notice that the battery voltage in my only ever modern car (2014 mk4.5 Mondeo 1.6 diesel with EFB stop-start battery) is showing as only 12.0V. Having on my other car just replaced a Bosch with another Bosch after 16 years, I'm disappointed that the original ford(Varta stickered) battery is dying after only 5.5 years, especially as both myself and the previous owner (brother) turn off the stop-start almost all the time.
So I want to replace with the best that I can to hopefully guarantee a longer life.
The best like for like I can find are Varta E46 or F22, or more likely a Bosch S4E10 / all 110 EFB from my favourite supplier Tayna for about £120 delivered with 3yr to 4yr warranty (but how to actually return?) Or I've just realised Halfords branded batteries seem to be made by Yuasa, and come with a 5year warranty, and would be much easier to return if the new one also starts to die in around 5 years.
Help appreciated with the following please...
1. Appreciate any experiences others have had of those 3 makes (Varta, Bosch, Halfords/Yuasa) re life of these EFB batteries?
2. And the really embarrassing question... How to fit?! I found 1 o2 references on the internet suggesting that there might be a codeing step once fitted (pressing rear fog light button x times, then hazard warning switch y times). However there is nothing in the manual. Any one if it is a straight normal swap, or whether I need to keep it powered in parallel during fit, or whether some coding is required?
Cheers
Good point re potential drain. I put on a CTEK charger for 36 hours and it seemed to run through the stages fine. I then disconnected, allowed to settle - then 1 hour later the voltage was 12.2v.
When I used stop-start just to test, it stops and starts fine even just a short way into the journey - but the voltages drops in a minute from 12.8 to 12.2.
So I am thinking the battery is just not holding charge, as opposed to a drain? Happy to be advised otherwise.
Alternator seems to be charging fine.
When I used stop-start just to test, it stops and starts fine even just a short way into the journey - but the voltages drops in a minute from 12.8 to 12.2.
So I am thinking the battery is just not holding charge, as opposed to a drain? Happy to be advised otherwise.
Alternator seems to be charging fine.
Halfords 5 year warranty is very good
25 Pounds fitted and old battery recycled is very good
https://www.halfords.com/advice/motoring/service/h...
25 Pounds fitted and old battery recycled is very good
https://www.halfords.com/advice/motoring/service/h...
Replacing parts is quicker and easier but does not identify or repair the problem, apart from by chance.
Measure battery capacity and CCA. Measure charging alternator output. Probe the fuse box looking for more than a 35milliamp draw.
When you have a complete image of all the components within the system you can diagnose correctly, otherwise you’re just guessing.
Charge the battery OFF the car and see if the 12.8 drops to 12.2 in the same timescale as when it’s in the car and connected.
Aftermarket alarm/radio/reversing sensor/dash cam etc etc etc can cause this if not fitted correctly.
Measure battery capacity and CCA. Measure charging alternator output. Probe the fuse box looking for more than a 35milliamp draw.
When you have a complete image of all the components within the system you can diagnose correctly, otherwise you’re just guessing.
Charge the battery OFF the car and see if the 12.8 drops to 12.2 in the same timescale as when it’s in the car and connected.
Aftermarket alarm/radio/reversing sensor/dash cam etc etc etc can cause this if not fitted correctly.
Olas said:
Also consider 12.6 is fully charged and 12.2 is
Considered dead.
If you can see 12.0 and the starter still turns the crank then you need to get out multimeter calibrated!
12.2 is actually about 50% not flat Considered dead.
If you can see 12.0 and the starter still turns the crank then you need to get out multimeter calibrated!
12 is probably around 15-20% so near enough flat but many petrol starter's will still turn at this due to the lowr compression they need
Little change of a diesel starting at this
It will have a smart charging alternator and they keep the battery at about a 80% state of charge. Its to do with fuel economy it only charges when its needed. If the stop/start works the battery is fine. But if you do fit a new 1 you need to reset the BCM to let it no a new battery has been fitted.
Cheers all, thanks for the prompt responses with thoughts.
I too don't understand how it could start when showing only 12.0v - however the multimeter and a separate plug in usb / volt display both admittedly cheap items) both agree. The use thingy drops byapprox 1v when ignition turned fully on, then rises 0.5v , at which point I'm starting on an 'indicated 11.5v.
I popped to halfords who kindly hooked up to Yuasa test meter - passed ok 12.4v (battery was warm though and my usb was flickering around 12.3v) and 670cca (from 700cca rated original battery). Passed the load test. Guy seemed fairly knowledgeable and thought the battery and charging system were fine,
Agree worth considering drain. I've just broken my multimeter cable so will look into the drain issue later. Electrics/electrickey are not my strong point - however I have chased drains on a previous vehicle, but struggling to think what drain could cause a battery to drop say 0.5v really quickly, then seemingly nothing much after that (as for the last few days unused it has stayed fairly constant at indicated 12.2 to 12.0).
Need to dig out radio code before I unplug the battery.
Re the BCU reset, thanks for confirming. Any tips on how to do this.
Halfords guy also confirmed that there is a reset procedure - however my friendly garage looked up on their online system (guess it is autodata or similar) and it apparantly mentioned nothing other than radio code. Confused!
Cheers again.
I too don't understand how it could start when showing only 12.0v - however the multimeter and a separate plug in usb / volt display both admittedly cheap items) both agree. The use thingy drops byapprox 1v when ignition turned fully on, then rises 0.5v , at which point I'm starting on an 'indicated 11.5v.
I popped to halfords who kindly hooked up to Yuasa test meter - passed ok 12.4v (battery was warm though and my usb was flickering around 12.3v) and 670cca (from 700cca rated original battery). Passed the load test. Guy seemed fairly knowledgeable and thought the battery and charging system were fine,
Agree worth considering drain. I've just broken my multimeter cable so will look into the drain issue later. Electrics/electrickey are not my strong point - however I have chased drains on a previous vehicle, but struggling to think what drain could cause a battery to drop say 0.5v really quickly, then seemingly nothing much after that (as for the last few days unused it has stayed fairly constant at indicated 12.2 to 12.0).
Need to dig out radio code before I unplug the battery.
Re the BCU reset, thanks for confirming. Any tips on how to do this.
Halfords guy also confirmed that there is a reset procedure - however my friendly garage looked up on their online system (guess it is autodata or similar) and it apparantly mentioned nothing other than radio code. Confused!
Cheers again.
Yes, I would normally leave a battery to settle after driving/charging before checking the resting voltage.
In hindsight I should have parked up, gone shopping then popped in an hour or so later after the car had been left standing. I didn't even know if they did battery testing - and hadn't expected they would leap on to it straight away!
Ps. Apologies for all the typo's in the earlier posts - predictive text coupled with user error.
In hindsight I should have parked up, gone shopping then popped in an hour or so later after the car had been left standing. I didn't even know if they did battery testing - and hadn't expected they would leap on to it straight away!
Ps. Apologies for all the typo's in the earlier posts - predictive text coupled with user error.
Matt,
You may be right! I just can't understand why it would read so low.
I'm only using every 2 or 3 days at the moment - however it starts really quickly and absolutely fine - even when indicating stupidly low volts.
I should add that the reason I even looked at the volts was that a couple of weeks ago after a long run (150 mls stopping twice), after I cleared out the boot and car (doors opened and closed say 5 times but not for that longer than a couple of minutes at a time I noticed the next morning (-1 degree c) that the low battery message was showing.
The message has not returned since - but I took as an indication that something might not be right.
I've not had many batteries fail on me, but my experience is that they tick along ok - then one day suddenly had it. Would rather avoid if I can. But have chucked the jump leads in the back for now!
You may be right! I just can't understand why it would read so low.
I'm only using every 2 or 3 days at the moment - however it starts really quickly and absolutely fine - even when indicating stupidly low volts.
I should add that the reason I even looked at the volts was that a couple of weeks ago after a long run (150 mls stopping twice), after I cleared out the boot and car (doors opened and closed say 5 times but not for that longer than a couple of minutes at a time I noticed the next morning (-1 degree c) that the low battery message was showing.
The message has not returned since - but I took as an indication that something might not be right.
I've not had many batteries fail on me, but my experience is that they tick along ok - then one day suddenly had it. Would rather avoid if I can. But have chucked the jump leads in the back for now!
C-J said:
Yes, I would normally leave a battery to settle after driving/charging before checking the resting voltage.
In hindsight I should have parked up, gone shopping then popped in an hour or so later after the car had been left standing. I didn't even know if they did battery testing - and hadn't expected they would leap on to it straight away!
Ps. Apologies for all the typo's in the earlier posts - predictive text coupled with user error.
Ok then, happens oftenIn hindsight I should have parked up, gone shopping then popped in an hour or so later after the car had been left standing. I didn't even know if they did battery testing - and hadn't expected they would leap on to it straight away!
Ps. Apologies for all the typo's in the earlier posts - predictive text coupled with user error.
Have another battery load test carried out when it's cold
Discharge test at 3 x the AH rating for 15 seconds always seems to work well, voltage should hold to minimum of 9.6 volts
No Mickey Mouse discharge testers allowed
C-J said:
I should add that the reason I even looked at the volts was that a couple of weeks ago after a long run (150 mls stopping twice), after I cleared out the boot and car (doors opened and closed say 5 times but not for that longer than a couple of minutes at a time I noticed the next morning (-1 degree c) that the low battery message was showing.
The message has not returned since - but I took as an indication that something might not be right.
Well that kind of tells you all you need to know then, you don't need a fancy battery tester. The battery has most likely seen its best years and is on the downward spiral. But how long will it last, well how long is a piece of string? If you are feeling flush just chuck a new one on it, if you willing to wait until it starts to get a bit sluggish starting or shows other signs of electrical systems starting to play up, leave it until this happens.The message has not returned since - but I took as an indication that something might not be right.
Hi folks,
A quick update - thanks for the prompt to double-check what else the cause might be. Having chased current drains in other vehicles previously I had satisfied myself this was unlikely to be anything other than a battery issue - however I had made a few assumptions!
Current situation, no pun intended.
Alternator charging upto 14.9, then dropping to 13.5 ish on short runs (which i think is how the smart charging system works and therefore ok).
Stop-start operates.
Low battery warning appeared not long after recharging with CTEK using reconditioning stage - but disappeared 2 days later when I disconnected the battery to recheck current drain.
Cleaned/copper greased several earths and negative cable to body/post.
Having spent ages checking current drain, once everything goes to sleep after 5-10mins I can only see 5mA which i think is great. This is with the battery disconnected and car unlocked, alarm off though - not sure/not brave enough to do this with car locked and then disconnect the battery.
After all this, the battery is still showing 12.47-12.50v - with both my new and old multimeter (until I left the latter in the rain overnight!).
This voltage will drop by 0.3v to 0.6v when I turn everything on the start though - no idea what drop is normal?
I have to do a few longer runs this week so will be able to monitor both charging voltage and what voltage is showing after rest.
A quick update - thanks for the prompt to double-check what else the cause might be. Having chased current drains in other vehicles previously I had satisfied myself this was unlikely to be anything other than a battery issue - however I had made a few assumptions!
Current situation, no pun intended.
Alternator charging upto 14.9, then dropping to 13.5 ish on short runs (which i think is how the smart charging system works and therefore ok).
Stop-start operates.
Low battery warning appeared not long after recharging with CTEK using reconditioning stage - but disappeared 2 days later when I disconnected the battery to recheck current drain.
Cleaned/copper greased several earths and negative cable to body/post.
Having spent ages checking current drain, once everything goes to sleep after 5-10mins I can only see 5mA which i think is great. This is with the battery disconnected and car unlocked, alarm off though - not sure/not brave enough to do this with car locked and then disconnect the battery.
After all this, the battery is still showing 12.47-12.50v - with both my new and old multimeter (until I left the latter in the rain overnight!).
This voltage will drop by 0.3v to 0.6v when I turn everything on the start though - no idea what drop is normal?
I have to do a few longer runs this week so will be able to monitor both charging voltage and what voltage is showing after rest.
Edited by C-J on Monday 3rd February 12:24
I would still be interested to know how long others have experienced an EFB stop-start battery to last. Is 5.5 years reasonable?
Especially for a car that is used regularly but with s/s turned off?
Also, I'd be really interested to know views on below - especially what they are and are they working normally.
After unlocking, as soon as the door is opened i have discovered that 2 electronic beeping sounds start under the bonnet.
One is to what I think (i'm embarrassed to admit I'm not sure!) is the pipe that goes to (or from) the intercooler rad. The electronic plug is just under the front left engine cover (looking at the front of the car) at the top of this pipe. When I unplug the main beep stops immediately. If i don't unplug it stops after 1-5 minutes. I'm not yet sure what dictates the time - perhaps temperature or pressure. What does the 'electronic' bit do? Measure something or heat something? It draws a lot of current whilst doing it.
After unplugging the thing above, I discovered a second beep coming from what i think is lower in the left hand side of the engine. It is a much fainter beep, I thought maybe fuel pressure or have read potentially EGR. I haven't investigated too much as not sure where to start - however it doesn't seem to be close to where i think either of those systems/items are.
Any experiences welcome - or if anyone has a similar engine (see topic title) and could check if theirs makes similar noises for a similar length of time it would be much appreciated.
Cheers
Especially for a car that is used regularly but with s/s turned off?
Also, I'd be really interested to know views on below - especially what they are and are they working normally.
After unlocking, as soon as the door is opened i have discovered that 2 electronic beeping sounds start under the bonnet.
One is to what I think (i'm embarrassed to admit I'm not sure!) is the pipe that goes to (or from) the intercooler rad. The electronic plug is just under the front left engine cover (looking at the front of the car) at the top of this pipe. When I unplug the main beep stops immediately. If i don't unplug it stops after 1-5 minutes. I'm not yet sure what dictates the time - perhaps temperature or pressure. What does the 'electronic' bit do? Measure something or heat something? It draws a lot of current whilst doing it.
After unplugging the thing above, I discovered a second beep coming from what i think is lower in the left hand side of the engine. It is a much fainter beep, I thought maybe fuel pressure or have read potentially EGR. I haven't investigated too much as not sure where to start - however it doesn't seem to be close to where i think either of those systems/items are.
Any experiences welcome - or if anyone has a similar engine (see topic title) and could check if theirs makes similar noises for a similar length of time it would be much appreciated.
Cheers
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