So what are the odds
Discussion
If what I suspect has happened here happened, the annoying thing is, had you not asked them to change the cambelt, your outcome probably would have been that you had a smaller bill and a car that wasn't broken..
It could be a coincidence, a coincidence so massive that Alanis Morrissette may have picked it up with her bat ears.
Did you drive it there?
It could be a coincidence, a coincidence so massive that Alanis Morrissette may have picked it up with her bat ears.
Did you drive it there?
TimmyMallett said:
If what I suspect has happened here happened, the annoying thing is, had you not asked them to change the cambelt, your outcome probably would have been that you had a smaller bill and a car that wasn't broken..
It could be a coincidence, a coincidence so massive that Alanis Morrissette may have picked it up with her bat ears.
Did you drive it there?
Yes, i drove it to the garageIt could be a coincidence, a coincidence so massive that Alanis Morrissette may have picked it up with her bat ears.
Did you drive it there?
Edit just rang the garage, owner not in or not available, but the receptionist says cylinders 2 and 4 are damaged.
Edited by Armchair Expert on Friday 10th September 09:22
So completely coincidentally, on the day your car was due in for a cambelt change, it didnt snap driving it there, it snapped immediately the garage started it up, even though they KNEW the cambelt needed doing, they started it up and did the MOT first?
Jimmy Hill.....
I'm not a mechanic by any stretch of the imagination but if the pulley wheel was missing enough teeth to slip, how did you manage to drive it there without it causing piston damage?
Have a conversation with them about meeting half way on costs? You can't prove anything, only they know what really happened.
Jimmy Hill.....
I'm not a mechanic by any stretch of the imagination but if the pulley wheel was missing enough teeth to slip, how did you manage to drive it there without it causing piston damage?
Have a conversation with them about meeting half way on costs? You can't prove anything, only they know what really happened.
I'd be astounded if any pulleys have missing teeth.
My suspicion is they buggered up the cam timing doing the swap, due to not locking things off correctly, started up the engine and had a terminal meeting of pistons and valves, which stopped at least one pulley dead and ripped some teeth off the belt.
Or similarly made an error with the tensioner setup, with the same end result.
The chance of the original belt letting go at the precise moment between the MOT and them doing the belt replacement is ridiculously low.
My suspicion is they buggered up the cam timing doing the swap, due to not locking things off correctly, started up the engine and had a terminal meeting of pistons and valves, which stopped at least one pulley dead and ripped some teeth off the belt.
Or similarly made an error with the tensioner setup, with the same end result.
The chance of the original belt letting go at the precise moment between the MOT and them doing the belt replacement is ridiculously low.
InitialDave said:
I'd be astounded if any pulleys have missing teeth.
My suspicion is they buggered up the cam timing doing the swap, due to not locking things off correctly, started up the engine and had a terminal meeting of pistons and valves, which stopped at least one pulley dead and ripped some teeth off the belt.
Or similarly made an error with the tensioner setup, with the same end result.
The chance of the original belt letting go at the precise moment between the MOT and them doing the belt replacement is ridiculously low.
This, all of it. They’ve buggered up the belt swap. My suspicion is they buggered up the cam timing doing the swap, due to not locking things off correctly, started up the engine and had a terminal meeting of pistons and valves, which stopped at least one pulley dead and ripped some teeth off the belt.
Or similarly made an error with the tensioner setup, with the same end result.
The chance of the original belt letting go at the precise moment between the MOT and them doing the belt replacement is ridiculously low.
stevemcs said:
That will be easy to see if they have buggered the timing up, take the belt cover off and look for a new belt, if its the old belt then it won't be how its been fitted.
The teeth missing will be from the belt itself not a pulley.
That's the strong evidence isn't it? Missing teeth from crusty old belt = belt let go. Missing teeth from new belt = belt fitted wrongly. The teeth missing will be from the belt itself not a pulley.
Ask to see the old belt and get them to show you the cam locking tools they used.
Do this in person and don’t warn them in advance, to avoid any funny business.
Have a look on line and see what an Alfa cam locking tool looks like, they are peculiar to Fiat/Alfa and each capacity engine needs a different version, not the sort of thing that every garage has.
It’s recommended to change the big end shells whenever valves hit pistons on theses engines otherwise a few miles down the road the big ends will start knocking.
Do this in person and don’t warn them in advance, to avoid any funny business.
Have a look on line and see what an Alfa cam locking tool looks like, they are peculiar to Fiat/Alfa and each capacity engine needs a different version, not the sort of thing that every garage has.
It’s recommended to change the big end shells whenever valves hit pistons on theses engines otherwise a few miles down the road the big ends will start knocking.
Armchair Expert said:
So anyone guess the cost of repair, a second hand engine coasts £550, how many hours to fit it?
Car is a 2003 model with 86,000, worth £1500 with a good engine, ££250 scrap.
How many "piece of string" questions do you want us to answer without seeing it?Car is a 2003 model with 86,000, worth £1500 with a good engine, ££250 scrap.
Could be a few £100, could be over a thousand, totally dependent on what is the issue. As you have already been told it could be savable if just a tooth out, it could be a full engine rebuild as you have also been told.
Engine swap could be a few £100 if it goes smoothly, could be £1000 if it doesn't & then you will want to do a cambelt swap for peace of mind.
E-bmw said:
Armchair Expert said:
So anyone guess the cost of repair, a second hand engine coasts £550, how many hours to fit it?
Car is a 2003 model with 86,000, worth £1500 with a good engine, ££250 scrap.
How many "piece of string" questions do you want us to answer without seeing it?Car is a 2003 model with 86,000, worth £1500 with a good engine, ££250 scrap.
Could be a few £100, could be over a thousand, totally dependent on what is the issue. As you have already been told it could be savable if just a tooth out, it could be a full engine rebuild as you have also been told.
Engine swap could be a few £100 if it goes smoothly, could be £1000 if it doesn't & then you will want to do a cambelt swap for peace of mind.
I need to make a decision on something I know very little about, and yes it could be between 100 and a 1000 but in order to come to some sort of decision I need to find an approximate likely cost. Someone above has already posted what is likely need to make a repair.
What would you do?
First establish if the belt failed or the new belt wasn't fitted right
Next only you can decide if its worth fixing. Lets say its £1500 to put it right, do o you like the car that much ? could you go out and buy a similar car for £1500 if you can buy better for less than £1500 then there's your answer
You just need to find out where it failed in the MOT as it does matter. 4 of our testers do the emissions test at the beginning, 1 of them does it right at the end. Realistically if its going to fail its likely to be when the emissions are being tested. The test station do have a responsibility when testing a car knowing the belt hasn't been changed.
Next only you can decide if its worth fixing. Lets say its £1500 to put it right, do o you like the car that much ? could you go out and buy a similar car for £1500 if you can buy better for less than £1500 then there's your answer
You just need to find out where it failed in the MOT as it does matter. 4 of our testers do the emissions test at the beginning, 1 of them does it right at the end. Realistically if its going to fail its likely to be when the emissions are being tested. The test station do have a responsibility when testing a car knowing the belt hasn't been changed.
Armchair Expert said:
Not looking for answers, looking for guidance.
I need to make a decision on something I know very little about, and yes it could be between 100 and a 1000 but in order to come to some sort of decision I need to find an approximate likely cost. Someone above has already posted what is likely need to make a repair.
What would you do?
I would do what Kev B suggested to find out whether the garage messed up before thinking anything else, unless you've decided to walk away from them and just swallow it up. I need to make a decision on something I know very little about, and yes it could be between 100 and a 1000 but in order to come to some sort of decision I need to find an approximate likely cost. Someone above has already posted what is likely need to make a repair.
What would you do?
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