Tips for reinstalling gearbox after a new clutch?

[tux850]

Pica-Pica said:

They just remind me of a job I have only done once (back in the 1970’s) and would never wish (and never needed) to do again.

I'm tempted to get you to elaborate, but also thinking maybe I should delay that umtil my job is done and dusted otherwise it'll just be something to worry about happening!

Edited by tux850 on Wednesday 15th March 15:55

[steveo3002]

id suggest watching as many youtube videos as possible on your model of car , will pick up some tips

others that do this all day long seem to whip the box back on like its made of paper , me well its took me hours despite being a stout chap i just cant seem to lift a gearbox when laying curled up under a car

[E-bmw]

I generally find the balance it on your knees with your feet below the engine & sighting from behind the gearbox method works reasonably well.

[tux850]

steveo3002 said:

id suggest watching as many youtube videos as possible on your model of car , will pick up some tips

Yeah, I've definitely found that useful. In this instance I did find one that was really good - zomming in on every bolt before removing it - and whilst it was a smaller engine/gearbox he just bruteforced it back into position. I did begin to wonder if was his car or not though... ;-) (I also noted the editing so there could well have been several hours between starting and finishing! You tend to only see the successes!).

steveo3002 said:

others that do this all day long seem to whip the box back on like its made of paper , me well its took me hours despite being a stout chap i just cant seem to lift a gearbox when laying curled up under a car

I suppose it's the combination of a reasonable amount of weight, non-symmetrical shape, weird centre of gravity what with the bell housing being little but air etc. That, and of course being under a car and excitement of wondering just how good those axle stands you got in the sale really are.

E-bmw said:

I generally find the balance it on your knees with your feet below the engine & sighting from behind the gearbox method works reasonably well.

Were it not for having the engine hoist option I could see that possibly working for me. I suppose your knees acting as a scissor lift help with both the weight and stability that arms alone might have an issue with.

Edited by tux850 on Wednesday 15th March 15:55

[E-bmw]

tux850 said:

steveo3002 said:

id suggest watching as many youtube videos as possible on your model of car , will pick up some tips

Yeah, I've definitely found that useful. In this instance I did find one that was really good - zomming in on every bolt before removing it - and whilst it was a smaller engine/gearbox he just bruteforced it back into position. I did begin to wonder if was his car or not though... ;-) (I also noted the editing so there could well have been several hours between starting and finishing! You tend to only see the successes!).

steveo3002 said:

others that do this all day long seem to whip the box back on like its made of paper , me well its took me hours despite being a stout chap i just cant seem to lift a gearbox when laying curled up under a car

I suppose it's the combination of a reasonable amount of weight, non-symmetrical shape, weird centre of gravity what with the bell housing being little but air etc. That, and of course being under a car and excitement of wondering just how good those axle stands you got in the sale really are.

E-bmw said:

I generally find the balance it on your knees with your feet below the engine & sighting from behind the gearbox method works reasonably well.

Were it not for having the engine hoist option I could see that possibly working for me. I suppose your knees acting as a scissor lift help with both the weight and stability that arms alone might have an issue with.

Edited by tux850 on Wednesday 15th March 15:55

Correct, works out fairly well even for an old-school XR4X4 manual complete with transfer box (many years ago) it wasn't an issue.

[littleredrooster]

No help to your current situation, OP, but I vividly remember my first gearbox removal in 1975. It was a Vauxhall Viva and I realised that I had woefully underestimated the weight of the box when lying underneath it as it used my rib-cage as a trampoline on its way down to earth.

[tux850]

Probably something to laugh at now but not funny at the time!

[Bainbridge]

The only thing I would add is that having an assistant there for the final coupling is very useful.

[tux850]

Oh my. The new clutch is on, as is the gearbox.

I went down the engine hoist route but still seemed to have an enormous amount of difficult getting the gearbox on. Whether it was the input shaft splines, angle of the box/engine I don't know but it was having none of it. I started to doubt my centring of the clutch disc but I'd made sure to be careful throughout all of that. I was starting to despair to be honest and thoughts turned to 'well, I was planning on getting a new car at some point anyway' and then it finally went in. Not all the way home but close enough to get some bolts in that I could then pull it home carefully. Speaking of bolts, the two 180mm ones I bought had the wrong thread so I couldn't use them in the end - doh!

All the major stuff went back in, mounts, driveshafts etc but I didn't have time to do the ancillaries like filter box and wheels but I couldn't leave it without trying it and was relieved - and somewhat surprised - that it seems to have worked. The clutch works (seems lighter than before? Might be misremembering), I can change gear and the driveshafts rotate.

I have however been given the gift of an ABS light though and whilst the pessimist in me is thinking I might've damaged a sensor or toothed ring at some point I'm also thinking that having the front wheels turning and not the back might well give rise to a suspected fault so finger's crossed when I finally get round to getting it back on the road that might disappear again.

Thanks again for all your help and advice - whilst it didn't quite go as smoothly as I'd hoped it did get me to there.

[finlo]

tux850 said:

Oh my. The new clutch is on, as is the gearbox.

I went down the engine hoist route but still seemed to have an enormous amount of difficult getting the gearbox on. Whether it was the input shaft splines, angle of the box/engine I don't know but it was having none of it. I started to doubt my centring of the clutch disc but I'd made sure to be careful throughout all of that. I was starting to despair to be honest and thoughts turned to 'well, I was planning on getting a new car at some point anyway' and then it finally went in. Not all the way home but close enough to get some bolts in that I could then pull it home carefully. Speaking of bolts, the two 180mm ones I bought had the wrong thread so I couldn't use them in the end - doh!

All the major stuff went back in, mounts, driveshafts etc but I didn't have time to do the ancillaries like filter box and wheels but I couldn't leave it without trying it and was relieved - and somewhat surprised - that it seems to have worked. The clutch works (seems lighter than before? Might be misremembering), I can change gear and the driveshafts rotate.

I have however been given the gift of an ABS light though and whilst the pessimist in me is thinking I might've damaged a sensor or toothed ring at some point I'm also thinking that having the front wheels turning and not the back might well give rise to a suspected fault so finger's crossed when I finally get round to getting it back on the road that might disappear again.

Thanks again for all your help and advice - whilst it didn't quite go as smoothly as I'd hoped it did get me to there.

I once pulled a box in the last inch using the bell housing bolts, it was some time later I discovered I'd pushed the spigot bearing through the flywheel!

[tux850]

Oh don't say that! Whilst I think mine is okay I haven't actually driven it yet...

[InitialDave]

Transverse setups don't usually have a spigot bearing in the flywheel, so you should be fine on that front.

[buggalugs]

I’ve had the ABS light thing before while trying things out with wheels in the air, it’ll be fine.

[Darkslider]

New clutches are quite often lighter than the previous one, as the new friction plate is thicker you're compressing the pressure plate springs less with the pedal so less effort required.

Hopefully the abs light goes away after a run, it's possible some loose rust has become dislodged and is stuck to the sensor or obscuring the teeth on the driveshaft, I always give it a good blow out with compressed air each time to avoid problems.

[paintman]

finlo said:

tux850 said:

Oh my. The new clutch is on, as is the gearbox.

I went down the engine hoist route but still seemed to have an enormous amount of difficult getting the gearbox on. Whether it was the input shaft splines, angle of the box/engine I don't know but it was having none of it. I started to doubt my centring of the clutch disc but I'd made sure to be careful throughout all of that. I was starting to despair to be honest and thoughts turned to 'well, I was planning on getting a new car at some point anyway' and then it finally went in. Not all the way home but close enough to get some bolts in that I could then pull it home carefully. Speaking of bolts, the two 180mm ones I bought had the wrong thread so I couldn't use them in the end - doh!

All the major stuff went back in, mounts, driveshafts etc but I didn't have time to do the ancillaries like filter box and wheels but I couldn't leave it without trying it and was relieved - and somewhat surprised - that it seems to have worked. The clutch works (seems lighter than before? Might be misremembering), I can change gear and the driveshafts rotate.

I have however been given the gift of an ABS light though and whilst the pessimist in me is thinking I might've damaged a sensor or toothed ring at some point I'm also thinking that having the front wheels turning and not the back might well give rise to a suspected fault so finger's crossed when I finally get round to getting it back on the road that might disappear again.

Thanks again for all your help and advice - whilst it didn't quite go as smoothly as I'd hoped it did get me to there.

I once pulled a box in the last inch using the bell housing bolts, it was some time later I discovered I'd pushed the spigot bearing through the flywheel!

You can do that with autoboxes - common mistake when putting ZF boxes back on Classic & P38 Range Rovers.
Splits the fluid pump in the front of the gearbox & when started up no drive as there is no fluid pressure.
You get to take it all off again & fit a new pump.
Torque converter must be fitted to the box to a specific depth before refitting the box.

[paintman]

tux850 said:

Speaking of bolts, the two 180mm ones I bought had the wrong thread so I couldn't use them in the end - doh!

Ah.
For anyone thinking of doing this in future remove one of the bolts & check the thread!

[TwinKam]

paintman said:

tux850 said:

Speaking of bolts, the two 180mm ones I bought had the wrong thread so I couldn't use them in the end - doh!

Ah.
For anyone thinking of doing this in future remove one of the bolts & check the thread!

Or do as I suggested way back and just use a plain 'rod' eg a screwdriver...
On many cars the 'box can't be lined up on studs/bolts/whatever from the other side of the street anyway, it has to be tilted or twisted one way or the other (usually due to the subframe where the wishbone rear bush is mounted) until it's virtually at the point of engagement, and it is only at THIS point that it is possible to insert guide pins... SO much easier to shove a plain rod through the bell housing and into a threaded hole in the block than ever to try to get a thread started... just sayin'.

Edited by TwinKam on Sunday 19th March 21:00

[tux850]

TwinKam said:

SO much easier to shove a plain rod through the bell housing and into a threaded hole in the block than ever to try to get a thread started... just sayin'.

That's what I did in the end, and it help rotate the box round a little as it wasn't quite sitting straight in the sling. I think it was more the 'hands free' aspect of a bolt or threaded bar approach that would've been useful as I was using both hands, an arm, legs on occasion etc trying to manhandlie the thing around!! Someone did mention the benefits of having an assistant and I think that would've been true.

[TwinKam]

...glad you got it back in without too much drama, Tux, as others have said there's no spigot bearing to fret about on most fwd cars and your ABS light will sort itself out as soon as you drive it, I'm sure.

[President Merkin]

Bit late & maybe a bit obvious too but for general happiness, once the box is back on & bolts & slave cyclinder in, jump in the car & check the clutch works as expected. This prevents wailing & gnashing of teeth after spending hours hammering parts back on only to discover something is out & you have to do it all again.