Driving Licence confusion.

[Getragdogleg]

Hopefully someone can assist me, I have been having a chat to our lads about 7.5 ton entitlement and who can and can't drive our recovery truck on their licence.

One lad passed his car test in Feb. 1992, he then went on to do the old Class 2 in october 1997.

He has the following entitlements:

B
BE
C
C1E
D1
D1E
fklnp

He thinks he is ok to drive our 7.5 ton truck with a car trailer behind it but I am not so sure, We have the little booklet from VoSA and it's quite hard to tell what he can drive to be honest.

I think the Car licence allows him to drive a vehicle and trailer with a total loaded weight up to 8.25t. but I also think he can only drive a 7.5t lorry with a trailer not exceeding 0.75t.

Does the 1997 pass for the old class 2 cancel the 1992 entitlement or am I confused ?

[rumple]

Yes he can, the cat C is the old HGV2, a class one is C+E, your driver can drive a 8 wheeler 32 tonne tipper for example.

[4key]

4key said:

Disclaimer: I'm crap at figuring this stuff out, but..

Youre right, the car license lets him drag .75t to make a mam of 8.25t, but his C1E lets him drag more.

C1 Medium sized vehicle : Vehicles between 3,500 kg and 7,500 kg with a trailer up to 750 kg.

C1+E Medium sized vehicle with trailers : Combinations of vehicles where the towing vehicle is in subcategory C1 and its trailer has a MAM of over 750 kg provided that the MAM of the combination thus formed does not exceed 12,000 kg and MAM of the trailer does not exceed the unladen mass of the towing vehicle.

C Large vehicles : Vehicles over 3,500 kg (including those over 7,500 kg) with a trailer up to 750 kg.

[mph1977]

does his C1E have '107' in the notes column ?

if yes 8250 MTM as a grandfather rights from pre 97 car test

if no 12000 MTM

did he pass class 2 or class 3 under the old system ( as could drive some wagon and drag combinations on a class 2)

[Getragdogleg]

mph1977 said:

does his C1E have '107' in the notes column ?

if yes 8250 MTM as a grandfather rights from pre 97 car test

if no 12000 MTM

did he pass class 2 or class 3 under the old system ( as could drive some wagon and drag combinations on a class 2)

C1E has 107 after it
D1 has 101
D1E has 101 and 119.

Class two passed under the old system. passed on the 10-10-97

[R0G]

He does not have the correct entitlement to tow a trailer over 750 kgs MAM behind a 7.5 tonne lorry

He does have the entitlement to do this -
6 tonner GVW towing a 2.25 MAM trailer = 8250 kgs on his C1+E 107

This means that if the 7.5 only utilses 6 tonnes of its 7.5 at any time then it can be dowplated from 7.5 to 6.0 allowing him to tow a 2250 kgs plated MAM trailer

[R0G]

This topic is right up my street as I inform on these issues on a lot of forums

[4key]

The divla dont like to make it easy do they.

[Getragdogleg]

R0G said:

He does not have the correct entitlement to tow a trailer over 750 kgs MAM behind a 7.5 tonne lorry

He does have the entitlement to do this -
6 tonner GVW towing a 2.25 MAM trailer = 8250 kgs on his C1+E 107

This means that if the 7.5 only utilses 6 tonnes of its 7.5 at any time then it can be dowplated from 7.5 to 6.0 allowing him to tow a 2250 kgs plated MAM trailer

Hmm, thanks for the excellent work decoding the entitlements !

The bit in bold, would that stretch to mean that if the 7.5 ton lorry was only carrying a light car and the trailer was only carrying a light car and the total loaded weight was less than 8.25t then he would be ok or is it all down to plated max weights ?

[mph1977]

Getragdogleg said:

R0G said:

He does not have the correct entitlement to tow a trailer over 750 kgs MAM behind a 7.5 tonne lorry

He does have the entitlement to do this -
6 tonner GVW towing a 2.25 MAM trailer = 8250 kgs on his C1+E 107

This means that if the 7.5 only utilses 6 tonnes of its 7.5 at any time then it can be dowplated from 7.5 to 6.0 allowing him to tow a 2250 kgs plated MAM trailer

Hmm, thanks for the excellent work decoding the entitlements !

The bit in bold, would that stretch to mean that if the 7.5 ton lorry was only carrying a light car and the trailer was only carrying a light car and the total loaded weight was less than 8.25t then he would be ok or is it all down to plated max weights ?

plated weights.

[Getragdogleg]

mph1977 said:

Getragdogleg said:

R0G said:

He does not have the correct entitlement to tow a trailer over 750 kgs MAM behind a 7.5 tonne lorry

He does have the entitlement to do this -
6 tonner GVW towing a 2.25 MAM trailer = 8250 kgs on his C1+E 107

This means that if the 7.5 only utilses 6 tonnes of its 7.5 at any time then it can be dowplated from 7.5 to 6.0 allowing him to tow a 2250 kgs plated MAM trailer

Hmm, thanks for the excellent work decoding the entitlements !

The bit in bold, would that stretch to mean that if the 7.5 ton lorry was only carrying a light car and the trailer was only carrying a light car and the total loaded weight was less than 8.25t then he would be ok or is it all down to plated max weights ?

plated weights.

Thought so, I was clutching at straws. This news now means a re-think on two vehicle recovery strategy and that I can basically only put the Artic drivers on it from now on.

What the fk use is a 3/4 ton trailer ? thats sod all. flipping Erde with a minimix and a couple bags of sand on it.

Edited by Getragdogleg on Monday 19th November 22:49

[R0G]

Getragdogleg said:

This news now means a re-think on two vehicle recovery strategy and that I can basically only put the Artic drivers on it from now on.

I am assuming the 7.5 is the open flatbed type which means it probably weighs about 4.0 tonnes empty
With one vehicle on it weighing about 2 tonnes then that is a total of 6.0 tonnes

A one vehicle trailer probably weighs about 0.4 tonnes empty so with a 1.75 tonne vehicle on it will be just under 2.25 tonnes

its easy to downplate the lorry to 6.0 and the trailer to 2.25 so that will conform to the pre 1997 C1+E 107 licence category

[R0G]

Getragdogleg said:

Hopefully someone can assist me, I have been having a chat to our lads about 7.5 ton entitlement and who can and can't drive our recovery truck on their licence.

One lad passed his car test in Feb. 1992, he then went on to do the old Class 2 in october 1997.

He has the following entitlements:

B
BE
C
C1E
D1
D1E
fklnp

He thinks he is ok to drive our 7.5 ton truck with a car trailer behind it but I am not so sure, We have the little booklet from VoSA and it's quite hard to tell what he can drive to be honest.

I think the Car licence allows him to drive a vehicle and trailer with a total loaded weight up to 8.25t. but I also think he can only drive a 7.5t lorry with a trailer not exceeding 0.75t.

Does the 1997 pass for the old class 2 cancel the 1992 entitlement or am I confused ?

The C1 is missing from that list so here is the list with the C1 added along with some simple (as poss) explanations

Apart from GTW which means actual weight, all other weights are MAM which means the maximum weight something can legally be when fully loaded. GVW, MPTLM, MPW & MAM all mean the same thing.

B = not more than 3500 kgs GVW with not more than a total of 9 seats
Can tow a 750 kgs MAM trailer if GVW 2750 to 3500
Can tow a trailer more than 750 kgs providing vehicle GVW added to trailer MAM does not exceed 3500 kgs and the trailer MAM is not more than vehicle kerbweight (no changes to this after Jan 2013 according to DVLA)

BE = towing vehicle not more than 3500 GVW with not more than a total of 9 seats with any trailer but after Jan 2013 new (not existing) BE licence holders will be limited to a 3500 MAM max for the trailer

C = any rigid vehicle of any weight with not more than a total of 9 seats
Max trailer weight is 750 kgs MAM

C1 = any rigid vehicle not more than 7500 GVW with not more than a total of 9 seats
Max trailer weight is 750 kgs MAM

NOTE:- a driver who has a pre 1997 C1 and also passes C will have another hidden C1 as C1 is a subcategory of C - this is also the case for those passing CE who have a pre 1997 C1E but the two C1Es in this case will be different .... see below

C1E = any rigid vehicle not more than 7500 GVW with not more than a total of 9 seats but can tow a trailer of any MAM but restricted to 12000 GTW (actual total weight for both when weighed together)

C1E with 107 restriction code (free for pre 1997 car licence holders) = any rigid vehicle not more than 7500 GVW with not more than a total of 9 seats towing a trailer where the total of the vehicle GVW added to the trailer MAM is not more than 8250 kgs - the higher the trailer MAM then the lower the vehicle GVW must be or vice-versa which allows the 8250 to be flexible

D1 = vehicle with 10 to 17 total seats

D1 with 101 code = vehicle with 10 to 17 total seats but cannot be used commercially

D1E = vehicle with 10 to 17 total seats towing any trailer

D1E with 101 code = vehicle with 10 to 17 total seats towing any trailer but cannot be used commercially

I hope that helps a little for anyone confused by the whole thing

Edited by R0G on Tuesday 20th November 13:58

[grumpy52]

So they changed the weights on the 7.5 cat without telling anybody ?.only noticed on mine when reading the booklet when bored after I re-newed my licence photo
lucky for me I no longer drive a tilt +slide +spec lift recovery (4.75 tonnes empty)
No restriction on the old one I have checked the photocopy of the licence kept on record at the agency.

[R0G]

grumpy52 said:

So they changed the weights on the 7.5 cat without telling anybody ?.

The weights have never changed for the 7.5 - what makes you think they have?

[grumpy52]

R0G said:

The weights have never changed for the 7.5 - what makes you think they have?

I now have the 8250kg limit restriction.
I didn't have it previously it was changed on renewal of my photo.
I have also heard of confusion regarding spec lift recovery trucks .
Also use of tacho not required for recovery work but now it is a requirement at all times?
I have been out of the recovery trade for a few years and know a lot has changed.
Also private car transporters need tacho to be used ? Subject to drivers hours etc ?
Same for private horse boxes.hire and reward (winning rosettes,cups etc) ?

Edited by grumpy52 on Wednesday 21st November 13:12

[grumpy52]

[quote=R0G]

Edited by grumpy52 on Wednesday 21st November 13:14

edited for double post

Edited by grumpy52 on Wednesday 21st November 13:16

[R0G]

grumpy52 said:

I now have the 8250kg limit restriction.
I didn't have it previously it was changed on renewal of my photo.
I have also heard of confusion regarding spec lift recovery trucks .
Also use of tacho not required for recovery work but now it is a requirement at all times?
I have been out of the recovery trade for a few years and know a lot has changed.
Also private car transporters need tacho to be used ? Subject to drivers hours etc ?
Same for private horse boxes.hire and reward (winning rosettes,cups etc) ?

I thought the 107 code 8250 restriction was always there for pre 1997 C1+E ??

Recovery and speclift have different rules due to certain exempptions but I am not up on them

B category vehicle and trailer where the total MAM is over 3.5 and used commercially will be subject to EU regs unless an exemption applies

Private under 7.5 tonnes GVW or total MAM but not making or intending to make profit does not come under EU regs

[grumpy52]

Some things slip through. we are talking gov computer systems.
Mine deff was not restricted but is now makes little difference to me as not likley to use or need this catergory .

[iguana]

grumpy52 said:

Also use of tacho not required for recovery work but now it is a requirement at all times?

Also private car transporters need tacho to be used ? Subject to drivers hours etc ?

Same for private horse boxes.hire and reward (winning rosettes,cups etc) ?

Edited by grumpy52 on Wednesday 21st November 13:12

Also use of tacho not required for recovery work but now it is a requirement at all times?


=Out of 62m (100km) radius of base yes

Also private car transporters need tacho to be used ? Subject to drivers hours etc ?

=If commercially hire/reward & over 3.5t yes, & O licence. (under 3.5t same 10 hr day but no log book (in uk- you do in Germany) or tacho as per normal vans) Private own car- to shows etc, then no.


Same for private horse boxes.hire and reward (winning rosettes,cups etc) ?


=Hire & reward yes, private use as per car transport above.