Used camper as a daily?

[was8v]

I am looking at vans too.

One bit sticking point for me is the back seat of a conversion is stuck way at the back of the van. So kids sit at the back and you load stuff in front of them.

A California or caravelle has superb sliding rails to bring them forwards, allowing you to use the vehicle conventionally.

You can retrofit California/ caravelle rails to a panel Van easily (holes are marked).

If you do that then get the caravelle rails and you can stick an extra seat in if you occasionally need 5/6

Uber bus can mount their rock n roll to the California rails, but nobody else does this.

[troika]

Cali Ocean here. Although it’s a 3rd vehicle, I’d happily use it as a daily driver and many do. It’s not perfect but is the best all round camper out there IMHO. It’s also the lowest overall cost to own due to the frankly ridiculous residuals. Unless it’s a Westfalia, you’ll lose a fortune on any other conversation.

[Trevor555]

troika said:

Unless it’s a Westfalia, you’ll lose a fortune on any other conversation.

Simply not true.

[x type]

I decided against a full camper conversion as they are quite compromised in a T5/6 and I hate the idea of cooking in such a confined space.

an alternative cooking area

https://www.facebook.com/platinumcustomconversions...

[troika]

Trevor555 said:

troika said:

Unless it’s a Westfalia, you’ll lose a fortune on any other conversation.

Simply not true.

OK, happy to be educated on this. For purposes of comparison, I could sell my Cali today to WBAC for £1500 less than I paid VW for it 16 months ago. I could stick it on the California club website for what I paid for it and it would be gone in a week to a private buyer. From what I see with conversions, they are a PITA to resell as people generally don’t know what they are buying (except for Westfalia models). Consequently if you want to actually shift it, you are looking at a significant loss.

[Trevor555]

troika said:

Trevor555 said:

troika said:

Unless it’s a Westfalia, you’ll lose a fortune on any other conversation.

Simply not true.

OK, happy to be educated on this. For purposes of comparison, I could sell my Cali today to WBAC for £1500 less than I paid VW for it 16 months ago. I could stick it on the California club website for what I paid for it and it would be gone in a week to a private buyer. From what I see with conversions, they are a PITA to resell as people generally don’t know what they are buying (except for Westfalia models). Consequently if you want to actually shift it, you are looking at a significant loss.

Westfalia isn't the only one with a decent name behind it.

Danbury, Bilbo, Camper King, plus a few others that are very salable and well known.

The conversions that don't have a "name" behind them are much more difficult to sell, but even those ones I wouldn't say you'd be into a significant loss, or even "lose a fortune" as you've said.

[troika]

Trevor555 said:

Westfalia isn't the only one with a decent name behind it.

Danbury, Bilbo, Camper King, plus a few others that are very salable and well known.

The conversions that don't have a "name" behind them are much more difficult to sell, but even those ones I wouldn't say you'd be into a significant loss, or even "lose a fortune" as you've said.

Problem is, the ‘named’ conversions cost the same, if not more than a Cali on a like for like basis, will not drive as well, lose more money and be a complete pain if there are any problems (I’m not talking about base spec 102PS vans, 5 speed, no aircon, steel wheels etc which many seem to be based on). I went round the houses with this when looking and for many, many reasons, the Cali makes the most sense to the point of almost being a no brainer. I still think you’ll lose your shirt on pretty much any conversion if you actually wanted to sell it.

[anonymous-user]

Have to agree, the Cali is a safe bet for residuals, but compromised for a camper (I know all T5/6's are to a point).

It really does depend on who converted it, there are so many muppets out there converting vans, it's a real minefield trying to sift out the good from the bad.

Personally, if I had my time again I would have got my van from Vanworx, the only UK company with full VW approval.

The idiots that converted my van have fitted 102 XL rated tyres, it's a T32 4-Motion so needs 103 XL, so that's a battle I'm about to start with them.

[Trevor555]

Troika, what are you basing your comments on?
Actual ownership experience of a non California camper van?
Are you saying they will experience problems and be a pain to repair from your own experience? Or is this what a VW sales person has told you by any chance?
As for price, how can the non VW ones be the same price as a California? I can assure you they're not.
If you tell me you've actually owned several different vans and speak from personal experience then I'll happily listen some more. Don't get me wrong, I've seen some poor conversions, and I love the cali's, but for you to write such negativity about anything that's not cali or westfalia, is just wrong.
How long ago did you do your rounds looking at vans?
There are plenty of very decent conversions out there nowadays that are cheaper than a cali, and have the side door on the correct side I may add, this alone stopped me buying the cali, plus faulty electric roofs that I wouldn't want out of warranty.
I got a similar spiel from a VW sales chappy when I looked to what you are saying, just sales talk I'm afraid, some is true, but it's no way true to say all the others will be a pain to repair, and will empty your wallet when time comes to sell.
Anyhow, a useful discussion so please feel free to continue.

[troika]

Trevor555 said:

Troika, what are you basing your comments on?
Actual ownership experience of a non California camper van?
Are you saying they will experience problems and be a pain to repair from your own experience? Or is this what a VW sales person has told you by any chance?
As for price, how can the non VW ones be the same price as a California? I can assure you they're not.
If you tell me you've actually owned several different vans and speak from personal experience then I'll happily listen some more. Don't get me wrong, I've seen some poor conversions, and I love the cali's, but for you to write such negativity about anything that's not cali or westfalia, is just wrong.
How long ago did you do your rounds looking at vans?
There are plenty of very decent conversions out there nowadays that are cheaper than a cali, and have the side door on the correct side I may add, this alone stopped me buying the cali, plus faulty electric roofs that I wouldn't want out of warranty.
I got a similar spiel from a VW sales chappy when I looked to what you are saying, just sales talk I'm afraid, some is true, but it's no way true to say all the others will be a pain to repair, and will empty your wallet when time comes to sell.
Anyhow, a useful discussion so please feel free to continue.

I’d be the first to point out the shortcomings of the Cali. I know all about the roof issues (I wish they would bring the Coast model to the U.K.). Fortunately you can take out a 5 year warranty for £329 that covers absolutely everything (VW will fix the roof outside of warranty in any case). At 5 years I’ll order another and sell mine privately once the new one is built. Maximum of £2K a year I reckon and completely hassle free. I know of no better ownership proposition out there. I’m all ears if there is. I did my homework for 2 years before buying, looked at plenty of conversions, went to the shows etc. It made the decision even easier. I then hired a Cali for a week to ensure it worked in reality. My only interaction with a VW sales person was a couple of phone calls to do the best deal. I didn’t even get to hear the sales pitch. I made, as they say, an informed decision. I knew exactly what I wanted and exactly what I should be paying for it. I’ve not owned any others, why would I after I’d done the research?

Some friends bought a new Westfalia Club Joker City (wanted the loo...), no end of roof problems. Still not right now. Rattles like a kids toy. Have to take it down to Hampshire every time, no courtesy vehicle, trains home etc. No thanks. That’s Westfalia, let alone lesser converters. It’s just not worth the agro for an inferior product that has a higher total cost of ownership but still, plenty of people buy conversions. I’m sure they’ve all carried out the same level of due diligence as I did and reached their own conclusions. Horses for courses.

[was8v]

Using the above logic.....buy a conversion that someone has "lost their shirt" on, then you don't lose yours.

[surveyor]

Or indeed buy a Conversion based on a reliable van...

All the mechanics I know will tell you that the vw is not as reliable and noisier than its competition, not to mention the scene tax...

[troika]

surveyor said:

Or indeed buy a Conversion based on a reliable van...

All the mechanics I know will tell you that the vw is not as reliable and noisier than its competition, not to mention the scene tax...

Do you know of one that I can buy with a 5 year warranty that covers everything including the kitchen sink and has lower actual depreciation? The conversions are noisy but my Ocean is silky smooth and nice and quiet.

[surveyor]

troika said:

surveyor said:

Or indeed buy a Conversion based on a reliable van...

All the mechanics I know will tell you that the vw is not as reliable and noisier than its competition, not to mention the scene tax...

Do you know of one that I can buy with a 5 year warranty that covers everything including the kitchen sink and has lower actual depreciation? The conversions are noisy but my Ocean is silky smooth and nice and quiet.

Why on earth do you need a 5 year warranty on a van that will do a fraction of the miles that it's designed for. Either you or the world has gone mad.

[troika]

surveyor said:

troika said:

surveyor said:

Or indeed buy a Conversion based on a reliable van...

All the mechanics I know will tell you that the vw is not as reliable and noisier than its competition, not to mention the scene tax...

Do you know of one that I can buy with a 5 year warranty that covers everything including the kitchen sink and has lower actual depreciation? The conversions are noisy but my Ocean is silky smooth and nice and quiet.

Why on earth do you need a 5 year warranty on a van that will do a fraction of the miles that it's designed for. Either you or the world has gone mad.

It’s not just a panel van though. Do your research and you’ll realise what I’m talking about. Electric roof, kitchen, gas, water system, electrics, camping equipment, awning, diesel parking heater. There are a lot of things which could go wrong that would cost a lot to fix. I (and most other owners) prefer not to have to worry about them.

Edited by troika on Monday 8th October 19:15

Edited by troika on Monday 8th October 19:19

[anonymous-user]

surveyor said:

Why on earth do you need a 5 year warranty on a van that will do a fraction of the miles that it's designed for. Either you or the world has gone mad.

I've got a 5 year warranty on my bus, cost me about £400 to add two extra years/100,000, it's transferable to the next owner should I sell it.

Why wouldn't you extend the warranty for peanuts?

I don't get the narky attitude at all.

[was8v]

Remember though Californias are expensive.

Well over 45k tiedup for five years depreciating albeit slowly?

No thanks.

Better 20k on a good conversion, in percentage terms might depreciate more but actual value similar.


So you can leave the other 25k invested and gaining compound returns.

[troika]

was8v said:

Remember though Californias are expensive.

Well over 45k tiedup for five years depreciating albeit slowly?

No thanks.

Better 20k on a good conversion, in percentage terms might depreciate more but actual value similar.


So you can leave the other 25k invested and gaining compound returns.

They are not cheap but offer exceptional value due to the lowest TCO. Can you point me in the direction of a ‘good conversion’ that I can buy for £20K? Everything has an opportunity cost but if you applied that all the time you’d never buy anything.

[anonymous-user]

You won't get much for £20k unfortunately, unless you buy a decent panel van and convert it yourself.

Back on topic, yes you can buy a VW T5/6 camper and use it daily

[Kev_Mk3]

I went to the NEC show and it opened my eyes massively. I went wanting a Vivaro / Traffic SWB with pop up roof as a minimum. The reason for this is VW's have scene tax and cost near double what I am looking at. Say 20k for a van with 200k on the clock!

No Thanks

Got to the show to see what is what and get ideas and didnt see 1 vivaro or traffic. We did see transits and many many many Vw's (well i can see why they are great!) Transits just seem cramped tbh and we fell in love with 2 vw ones but the cost £50k.............

I am unsure I could sink 50k into a camper. If I did it would have to be used daily, we would be away at least 1 or 2 times a month with it so would be used but its alot of money. We cant find anything second hand to suit!

It seems alot of home made crap is on the market which I am trying to avoid also.

The show highlighted how expensive things are lol