VW Campers - are they all "conversions" of some description?
Discussion
Hi all,
There really is a section for everything on Pistonheads! I'm at the very early stages of looking at campervans and note that there's quite a large gulf in price between some conversions. On reading some of the descriptions I see that some start out life as vans/commerical vehicles and hence are a bit cheaper. On the other hand there are more expensive version of what essentially looks like the same thing to the untrained eye but are more expensive. Is this because they started off life as a passenger vehicle and were then converted!?
I'm just trying to understand if it's worth spending extra on the non van van conversions or indeed if there is any benefit in doing so. Any advice on the subject would be appreciated and for info it's probably the T5 or T6 that we would be looking at.
Camping is very new to us with the only real experience to date being the below (this is PH so I had to get a car shot in there right?). With a little one now with us we're thinking tenting might not be such a good idea these days!
There really is a section for everything on Pistonheads! I'm at the very early stages of looking at campervans and note that there's quite a large gulf in price between some conversions. On reading some of the descriptions I see that some start out life as vans/commerical vehicles and hence are a bit cheaper. On the other hand there are more expensive version of what essentially looks like the same thing to the untrained eye but are more expensive. Is this because they started off life as a passenger vehicle and were then converted!?
I'm just trying to understand if it's worth spending extra on the non van van conversions or indeed if there is any benefit in doing so. Any advice on the subject would be appreciated and for info it's probably the T5 or T6 that we would be looking at.
Camping is very new to us with the only real experience to date being the below (this is PH so I had to get a car shot in there right?). With a little one now with us we're thinking tenting might not be such a good idea these days!
All will have started life as a van of some description, the difference in price for a converted one is usually down to a) who did the conversion, b) the layout and c) the age/condition/use of the van pre-conversion.
You’ll get companies who buy them brand new from wherever and then convert them professionally, these are the pricier ones (VanWorx, Nomad etc), but you’ll also get Bob who rents and industrial lockup and bolts in bits he bought off eBay!
IMO, a professional conversion is the way to go if you’re buying new/nearly new as you minimise the risk of Bob in his lock up making a hash of it! For the well known brand conversions, you will pay a premium but that’s because (generally) they know what they’re doing and know what layouts work, but well worth finding a couple you like, see who did the conversion (most will brand it) and then research the company a little for reviews etc.
You’ll get companies who buy them brand new from wherever and then convert them professionally, these are the pricier ones (VanWorx, Nomad etc), but you’ll also get Bob who rents and industrial lockup and bolts in bits he bought off eBay!
IMO, a professional conversion is the way to go if you’re buying new/nearly new as you minimise the risk of Bob in his lock up making a hash of it! For the well known brand conversions, you will pay a premium but that’s because (generally) they know what they’re doing and know what layouts work, but well worth finding a couple you like, see who did the conversion (most will brand it) and then research the company a little for reviews etc.
Pretty bang on reply above.
We bought from a conversion company doing 20 a week! Which shows the increasing demand of them! But fully agree to stay away from bob in his shed doing the electrics from YouTube instructional videos!
The only VW campers that don’t start life as a van are VWs own Ocean model which come direct from VW as a camper - but you pay the premium... with the benefit of really low depreciation (with some people reporting appreciation on Oceans)
We bought from a conversion company doing 20 a week! Which shows the increasing demand of them! But fully agree to stay away from bob in his shed doing the electrics from YouTube instructional videos!
The only VW campers that don’t start life as a van are VWs own Ocean model which come direct from VW as a camper - but you pay the premium... with the benefit of really low depreciation (with some people reporting appreciation on Oceans)
When we looked at them at Bilbos which is nearby, we were told to look at the tail.
Barn doors likely means built to be a van, tailgate opening upwards was more likely to have been spec'd from factory to be a passenger vehicle, could be VW building it as a California or could have been ordered like that by a converter.
I think the point was the up lifting tailgate gives you useful shelter depending on the layout.
With 3 sons we decided in the end that we needed more space. Also couldn't figure out how we'd get around setting up camp and then need to put everything down again to go to the shops, couldn't leave mum and a kid at home whilst others go off an do an activity etc. We handed all our cool points in and bought a caravan.
Barn doors likely means built to be a van, tailgate opening upwards was more likely to have been spec'd from factory to be a passenger vehicle, could be VW building it as a California or could have been ordered like that by a converter.
I think the point was the up lifting tailgate gives you useful shelter depending on the layout.
With 3 sons we decided in the end that we needed more space. Also couldn't figure out how we'd get around setting up camp and then need to put everything down again to go to the shops, couldn't leave mum and a kid at home whilst others go off an do an activity etc. We handed all our cool points in and bought a caravan.
Agree with both above posts.
Get one with a decent name behind it.
It'll make it much easier to sell when the time comes, and also think of future back up if it's needed.
A man in a shed may do a very decent job, but if you have a problem a couple of years down the road who knows if they'll still be there. Only they will know where they've run wires etc....
All new conversions will be panel vans to begin with, converting a Caravelle wouldn't be viable as they command so much more money than a panel van.
I'd say go for it, sell that Alpina Z4 to me as you wont be needing it anymore.
Get one with a decent name behind it.
It'll make it much easier to sell when the time comes, and also think of future back up if it's needed.
A man in a shed may do a very decent job, but if you have a problem a couple of years down the road who knows if they'll still be there. Only they will know where they've run wires etc....
All new conversions will be panel vans to begin with, converting a Caravelle wouldn't be viable as they command so much more money than a panel van.
I'd say go for it, sell that Alpina Z4 to me as you wont be needing it anymore.
Gee Whizz said:
I'm just trying to understand if it's worth spending extra on the non van van conversions or indeed if there is any benefit in doing so.
The California, Ocean, Beach vans by VW are more expensive yes, but the are so saleable you'll find depreciation isn't too much of a factor unlike cars.A decent conversion with a "name" behind it are also very saleable, it's the conversions that have been done by someone unheard of are the ones to avoid.
When I've had to dispose of campers in the past the first thing I've been asked by the dealer buyers is "who's built it?"
And if my reply was someone they've not heard of their reply was always "Sorry, not for me"
Good point about the tailgate, although a lot of the pro conversions use barn doors as they split the storage behind the R&R bed, one half for storage, the other for heater/water tank, so don’t be put off by a barn door! But you’re bang on about them being made for commercial rather than leisure
The other 'basic' to check is whether the folding bed is a type approved one or not.
Some cheap conversions use a cheapo non crash tested bed and would have originally sold it saying the rear seat was not for travelling in, but a later owner then attaches some seatbelts and uses it as a seat.
Some cheap conversions use a cheapo non crash tested bed and would have originally sold it saying the rear seat was not for travelling in, but a later owner then attaches some seatbelts and uses it as a seat.
Thanks very much for all the input folks. Very interesting that you mention the rear doors...I hadn't even noticed the difference previously!!
I totally understand that you can pay buttons and get a poor conversion and likewise you can spend 10's of thousands on getting something that is extremely well screwed together with great materials. The conversions that have caught my eye in terms of value for money and being backed by a company that has been around for a while are Teahupoo ones. This in particular appears to be quite a good deal amongst the others that are for sale at the moment https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...
I don't suppose anybody has any experience with this company at all?
I totally understand that you can pay buttons and get a poor conversion and likewise you can spend 10's of thousands on getting something that is extremely well screwed together with great materials. The conversions that have caught my eye in terms of value for money and being backed by a company that has been around for a while are Teahupoo ones. This in particular appears to be quite a good deal amongst the others that are for sale at the moment https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...
I don't suppose anybody has any experience with this company at all?
Trevor555 said:
I'd say go for it, sell that Alpina Z4 to me as you wont be needing it anymore.
I'm going to hold onto it for as long as I can. It's only used as a summer toy but I do appreciate that 3 into 2 is going to be a bit tricky! I’ve no personal experience with Teahupoo but I’ve heard of them as a good company.
Go and have a proper lay down on a 3/4 width bed like that one though, they can be very ‘cosy’!! Unless you’re sleeping upstairs, which will be roomy! Captains chairs are great too, open up a huge amount of room that is essentially useless normally.
Go and have a proper lay down on a 3/4 width bed like that one though, they can be very ‘cosy’!! Unless you’re sleeping upstairs, which will be roomy! Captains chairs are great too, open up a huge amount of room that is essentially useless normally.
I have also started the research into getting a T5/6 and went to check out a freind's; they have a proper California (2008), which I believe is the VW built camper, not a conversion.
The rear door is a good point, and does provide an extra shelter.
It also has more of a 'built-in' feel, with much more in the way of storage cubbies that feel like they are in the right place.
The one difference I did note, and I'm not sure if this is a thing with all 'Californias', is that the side door opens on the drivers side. Not good for letting the kids out.... all conversions I have seen started life as either a day-van with just 2nd row seats, or van, with the sliding door on the passenger side.
The rear door is a good point, and does provide an extra shelter.
It also has more of a 'built-in' feel, with much more in the way of storage cubbies that feel like they are in the right place.
The one difference I did note, and I'm not sure if this is a thing with all 'Californias', is that the side door opens on the drivers side. Not good for letting the kids out.... all conversions I have seen started life as either a day-van with just 2nd row seats, or van, with the sliding door on the passenger side.
There was a local convertor to me displaying a number of vehicles in a shopping centre. I could not get my head around how little space there was in the VW conversions and the prices of £50k just seems insane.
A coach built will not be that much different price wise and space is not a problem.
A coach built will not be that much different price wise and space is not a problem.
Jonboy_t said:
All will have started life as a van of some description, the difference in price for a converted one is usually down to a) who did the conversion, b) the layout and c) the age/condition/use of the van pre-conversion.
You’ll get companies who buy them brand new from wherever and then convert them professionally, these are the pricier ones (VanWorx, Nomad etc), but you’ll also get Bob who rents and industrial lockup and bolts in bits he bought off eBay!
IMO, a professional conversion is the way to go if you’re buying new/nearly new as you minimise the risk of Bob in his lock up making a hash of it! For the well known brand conversions, you will pay a premium but that’s because (generally) they know what they’re doing and know what layouts work, but well worth finding a couple you like, see who did the conversion (most will brand it) and then research the company a little for reviews etc.
All valid although worth pointing out that the likes of VanWorx etc were all Bob in his lockup at one stage You’ll get companies who buy them brand new from wherever and then convert them professionally, these are the pricier ones (VanWorx, Nomad etc), but you’ll also get Bob who rents and industrial lockup and bolts in bits he bought off eBay!
IMO, a professional conversion is the way to go if you’re buying new/nearly new as you minimise the risk of Bob in his lock up making a hash of it! For the well known brand conversions, you will pay a premium but that’s because (generally) they know what they’re doing and know what layouts work, but well worth finding a couple you like, see who did the conversion (most will brand it) and then research the company a little for reviews etc.
There is the in between of course, one of them near me called Young Conversions, they are enormously experienced but work on the "you source the van" tell us what you want, give us a wedge of cash and we will do the work.
Also worth noting there are some very professional looking builds done by some of us on the driveway (Myself and Tampon but to name just two home builds)
However I appreciate that one from Vanworx will always be worth more, doesn't always mean it is better
geeks said:
There is the in between of course, one of them near me called Young Conversions, they are enormously experienced but work on the "you source the van" tell us what you want, give us a wedge of cash and we will do the work.
It got drilled into me never to do this.What if you didn't like what they'd done at the end? Or the van had developed a fault, rear lights not working for example.
It's your van they've done, they couldn't exactly undo it.
Jonboy_t said:
I’ve no personal experience with Teahupoo but I’ve heard of them as a good company.
Go and have a proper lay down on a 3/4 width bed like that one though, they can be very ‘cosy’!! Unless you’re sleeping upstairs, which will be roomy! Captains chairs are great too, open up a huge amount of room that is essentially useless normally.
Good shout on trying the bed out. I did notice that some were wider than others. Hopefully I'll manage to go see a few or get myself to a show soon to see what is available. I'll also need to see if the seats are isofix compliant. It's probably an ask too far...Go and have a proper lay down on a 3/4 width bed like that one though, they can be very ‘cosy’!! Unless you’re sleeping upstairs, which will be roomy! Captains chairs are great too, open up a huge amount of room that is essentially useless normally.
gordmac said:
Can I suggest not limiting yourself to VW? Pug Boxer has far more room and seems the main choice of a lot of motorhome makers. If you can find one a demountable is worth considering.
Only reason for going down the VW route is resale. I understand there is a reasonable following so hopefully that would be reflected if and when it came to sale time. I also quite like the fairly compact nature of them.Gee Whizz said:
gordmac said:
Can I suggest not limiting yourself to VW? Pug Boxer has far more room and seems the main choice of a lot of motorhome makers. If you can find one a demountable is worth considering.
Only reason for going down the VW route is resale. I understand there is a reasonable following so hopefully that would be reflected if and when it came to sale time. I also quite like the fairly compact nature of them.I have a T6 Kombi, but didn’t want the cupboards all down one side and narrow the width of the bed.
So I have a slide out kitchen in the rear but have a full width full size bed and a po up roof with another bed above, plus the obvious extra height for walking around.
My VW has a lift up tailgate which I have a ‘Packashack’ tent which goes over the tailgate and takes me literally 5 minutes to put up.
I also have a drive away attachment which fits in the rail on the side.
There are many many variations on beds, units,kitchens, roofs etc etc
So I have a slide out kitchen in the rear but have a full width full size bed and a po up roof with another bed above, plus the obvious extra height for walking around.
My VW has a lift up tailgate which I have a ‘Packashack’ tent which goes over the tailgate and takes me literally 5 minutes to put up.
I also have a drive away attachment which fits in the rail on the side.
There are many many variations on beds, units,kitchens, roofs etc etc
We went from a caravan to a T5 conversion, gives more freedom and opens up potential that we felt the caravan was holding us back, yes it's smaller but I'm not sure we needed all that space anyway!
When deciding what to do we toured quite a few converters, spent a lot of time looking online at various conversions and made a "hit list" of what we wanted. This helped us eliminate quite a few conversions based on their specification alone, others were eliminated on their fit & finish, a day spent at Camper Jam or another large show can really open your eyes to the varying level of quality available. Not all the large conversion companies are equal, they mostly all use third party pop-tops and beds (reimo/SCA roof and RIB bed).
We actually ended up converting a vehicle ourselves, I've got a lot of classic vehicle restorations under my belt and access to a decent workshop so I wasn't put off by doing the work myself and was confident I could produce something to my specification that was finished as well as a professional converter.
Westfalia Kepler range is equal to the VW California range in quality but offers different layouts and additions like a toilet and shower, if those are things you would consider essential.
It's also worth thinking beyond the habitation side and looking at the vehicle itself, the base spec models are spartan and the low output engines come with a 5 speed box and will be hard going when fully loaded as a camper. A conversion to the low weight limit model won't leave much payload and whilst a SWB may be easier to park the extra 40mm of the LWB make a massive difference to the living space.
When deciding what to do we toured quite a few converters, spent a lot of time looking online at various conversions and made a "hit list" of what we wanted. This helped us eliminate quite a few conversions based on their specification alone, others were eliminated on their fit & finish, a day spent at Camper Jam or another large show can really open your eyes to the varying level of quality available. Not all the large conversion companies are equal, they mostly all use third party pop-tops and beds (reimo/SCA roof and RIB bed).
We actually ended up converting a vehicle ourselves, I've got a lot of classic vehicle restorations under my belt and access to a decent workshop so I wasn't put off by doing the work myself and was confident I could produce something to my specification that was finished as well as a professional converter.
Westfalia Kepler range is equal to the VW California range in quality but offers different layouts and additions like a toilet and shower, if those are things you would consider essential.
It's also worth thinking beyond the habitation side and looking at the vehicle itself, the base spec models are spartan and the low output engines come with a 5 speed box and will be hard going when fully loaded as a camper. A conversion to the low weight limit model won't leave much payload and whilst a SWB may be easier to park the extra 40mm of the LWB make a massive difference to the living space.
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