Where to start - Campervan
Discussion
If I've understood correctly the OP wants something that is usable as a second car when needed. It is all very nice recommending bigger (6m+) vans but they really aren't usable as daily drivers. A portapotti easily fits in a smaller van for use when toilets are not available elsewhere.
I would not spend £30k yet. Work out how many nights a year you will realistically use it. Once you include depreciation, insurance, maintenance, repairs and the capital tied up in the van, you can buy an awful lot of hotels and B&Bs for the same money.
My calculation gives a break even point of 30-50 nights a year...and that's being very generous.
Assume the campervan retains £20,000 of value after five years, that is £10,000 depreciation alone. Add perhaps £1,500–£2,500 per year in ownership and maintenance costs, depending upon usage and reliability, and the effective cost could easily approach £4,000–£5,000 per year before fuel and campsite fees.
At £150 per night, £5,000 buys 33 nights of good hotel accommodation every year. At £100 per night, it buys 50 nights.
I also think £30,000 is an awkward price point. It is enough money to represent a substantial financial commitment, but not necessarily enough to eliminate the risk of buying an older conversion with expensive problems.
My calculation gives a break even point of 30-50 nights a year...and that's being very generous.
Assume the campervan retains £20,000 of value after five years, that is £10,000 depreciation alone. Add perhaps £1,500–£2,500 per year in ownership and maintenance costs, depending upon usage and reliability, and the effective cost could easily approach £4,000–£5,000 per year before fuel and campsite fees.
At £150 per night, £5,000 buys 33 nights of good hotel accommodation every year. At £100 per night, it buys 50 nights.
I also think £30,000 is an awkward price point. It is enough money to represent a substantial financial commitment, but not necessarily enough to eliminate the risk of buying an older conversion with expensive problems.
The problem with historic depreciation calculations ignores the fact that prices of new and used vans has sky rocketed in the last 6 years.
eg. The list price of some vans was around £35k in 2019 and they are still worth that today as the equivalent new van is nearer £60k.
Anyway, as hinted at a couple of post above, the best first step is to rent some vans for a few trips to work out what size and layout works for you.
The shorter 'full size' vans (Transits, Ducatos etc) are around 5.5m which is similar to the longer Transporters/Customs/Trafics so still fit in a parking space without much overhang.
eg. The list price of some vans was around £35k in 2019 and they are still worth that today as the equivalent new van is nearer £60k.
Anyway, as hinted at a couple of post above, the best first step is to rent some vans for a few trips to work out what size and layout works for you.
The shorter 'full size' vans (Transits, Ducatos etc) are around 5.5m which is similar to the longer Transporters/Customs/Trafics so still fit in a parking space without much overhang.
Already mentioned previously with the VW (179) CFCA engine, but on the newer vans there was the (204) CXEB engine, avoid that too as they also have a very high failure rate.
See if you can find a nice Edition, they come with a good base spec like led headlamps (a must have option), satnav, reverse camera, aircon etc and then you can add a Rib bed, Van Shades etc
Priority number 1 for me is a comfy bed, so I have a full width, full length Rib.
We don t cook in ours, we use a Cadac or we eat out.
A Bluetti/Jackory/Ecoflow for electrics, or we find a site with hookup, we don t do off grid for more than a day or two, we need proper toilets and showers.
All camper vans are a compromise, but the fact I can drive the van to work on a Friday, get home at 5:30, pack up and be on the road at 6:00 is brilliant, we don t need to go far to get that feeling that you re away and can relax and switch off.
We still do hotels, holidays abroad etc but the van is great for a spontaneous trip with little planning.
We like the festivals too, just had a weekend at Camperjam, have Busfest in September and Oktoberfest (you can work that one out).
Also went down to Le Mans a couple of years back and stayed right next to the track.
Edit - great thread here from MacP - https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
See if you can find a nice Edition, they come with a good base spec like led headlamps (a must have option), satnav, reverse camera, aircon etc and then you can add a Rib bed, Van Shades etc
Priority number 1 for me is a comfy bed, so I have a full width, full length Rib.
We don t cook in ours, we use a Cadac or we eat out.
A Bluetti/Jackory/Ecoflow for electrics, or we find a site with hookup, we don t do off grid for more than a day or two, we need proper toilets and showers.
All camper vans are a compromise, but the fact I can drive the van to work on a Friday, get home at 5:30, pack up and be on the road at 6:00 is brilliant, we don t need to go far to get that feeling that you re away and can relax and switch off.
We still do hotels, holidays abroad etc but the van is great for a spontaneous trip with little planning.
We like the festivals too, just had a weekend at Camperjam, have Busfest in September and Oktoberfest (you can work that one out).
Also went down to Le Mans a couple of years back and stayed right next to the track.
Edit - great thread here from MacP - https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Edited by Ed Boon II on Tuesday 14th July 08:05
I was looking into this 10 years ago only with a sub £30k budget.
Quickly discovered that it would only buy something quite old or tired.
Ended up buying a three year old caravan for £12k.
I've found this a much better option as I don't have to use it as my second vehicle and having a car to use while you are away is a God send.
You get a much more usable space for living in.
I appreciate the "van life" scene is different to using a caravan but the admission price to anything flash is very high. (If not a powerfully buil CD)
The vans may hold their money well but selling anything privately over £20k is going to be tricky IMHO.
My BIL bought a £90k autotrail and didn't get on with it, after 3 years had to sell it through a dealer and lost half the value.
As for the poster above saying about value for money re renting air BnB etc, it doesn't make sense (financially)but it's a totally different thing.
Quickly discovered that it would only buy something quite old or tired.
Ended up buying a three year old caravan for £12k.
I've found this a much better option as I don't have to use it as my second vehicle and having a car to use while you are away is a God send.
You get a much more usable space for living in.
I appreciate the "van life" scene is different to using a caravan but the admission price to anything flash is very high. (If not a powerfully buil CD)
The vans may hold their money well but selling anything privately over £20k is going to be tricky IMHO.
My BIL bought a £90k autotrail and didn't get on with it, after 3 years had to sell it through a dealer and lost half the value.
As for the poster above saying about value for money re renting air BnB etc, it doesn't make sense (financially)but it's a totally different thing.
If you cost out the van purely on nights used VS overall cost then yes it might be expensive depending on your circumstances. The major positive is we can just go whenever / wherever we want and be self contained, plus I spend a fair amount of time at race paddocks and it makes that massively more comfortable and convenient to be on site. To me it's definitely worth it.
Enjoy your trial OP let us know how you get on.
Enjoy your trial OP let us know how you get on.
Ok, apologies for the long post, but hopefully it is helpful.
My understanding is that the OP wants something for a bit of camping that can also be used as a second vehicle for daily duties. The camping would primarily be him, his wife and their dog. The budget is up to 40k.
In terms of campervanning my background is we are a family of four (kids aged 6 & 9) living close to Stuttgart in Germany. My wife grew up holidaying in campervans, we had previously borrowed my in-laws VW California before finally buying our own about four years ago. We have a VW California Beach (T6.1) and until a few months ago it was also our only family car. We now have a small electric car for my work commute and my wife cycles to work. The combination of small electric car and VW California might not be Pistonhead sexy but it is incredibly practical.
In the four years we have had it we have camped in the UK, France, Italy, Norway, Denmark, Finland, Corsica, Croatia, Austria and Germany. Some trips have been several weeks duration, whilst others have been just weekends away. I ve driven it and parked it in cities like Paris and Berlin without any issue, but any longer and I suspect that would have been a lot trickier. I could probably post hundreds of photos but here are just a few camping examples:
The van has a pull out gas cooker inside but we have never used it. We prefer to cook outside, it is just easier and I personally don t want excess moisture and cooking smells stuck in the van. Obviously we don t have a shower but I see water in a van as a potential issue and you need to start going quite large before enclosed showers are an option. We have a Thetford portapotti to use when toilets are not available elsewhere. I view camping in the California Beach as basically camping but your tent is a large metal box on wheels. The four of us still fit in it for sleeping without any issue, obviously this will change at some point and we ll need to look at tent/caravan/larger van options. If the OP is only two people and a dog this is never going to be an issue for them.
There are numerous ways to customise the van for your own preferred setup, our setup is constantly evolving but that is half the fun for me anyway. Solar panels, pull our trays, customised storage boxes, lighting solutions, etc. are all possible and there is a large community out there to draw inspiration from.
At the same time the van is very useful tool to have, for example it will swallow a full height Ikea Pax wardrobe with no issue:
Yes, the price of the van would buy a lot of hotel nights, but I can't drive a hotel room and hotel stays have a 100% depreciation rate.
Ultimately, choosing the right van for your own personal circumstances is quite unique. The OP needs to consider where they want to go and how else they want to use the van.
My understanding is that the OP wants something for a bit of camping that can also be used as a second vehicle for daily duties. The camping would primarily be him, his wife and their dog. The budget is up to 40k.
In terms of campervanning my background is we are a family of four (kids aged 6 & 9) living close to Stuttgart in Germany. My wife grew up holidaying in campervans, we had previously borrowed my in-laws VW California before finally buying our own about four years ago. We have a VW California Beach (T6.1) and until a few months ago it was also our only family car. We now have a small electric car for my work commute and my wife cycles to work. The combination of small electric car and VW California might not be Pistonhead sexy but it is incredibly practical.
In the four years we have had it we have camped in the UK, France, Italy, Norway, Denmark, Finland, Corsica, Croatia, Austria and Germany. Some trips have been several weeks duration, whilst others have been just weekends away. I ve driven it and parked it in cities like Paris and Berlin without any issue, but any longer and I suspect that would have been a lot trickier. I could probably post hundreds of photos but here are just a few camping examples:
The van has a pull out gas cooker inside but we have never used it. We prefer to cook outside, it is just easier and I personally don t want excess moisture and cooking smells stuck in the van. Obviously we don t have a shower but I see water in a van as a potential issue and you need to start going quite large before enclosed showers are an option. We have a Thetford portapotti to use when toilets are not available elsewhere. I view camping in the California Beach as basically camping but your tent is a large metal box on wheels. The four of us still fit in it for sleeping without any issue, obviously this will change at some point and we ll need to look at tent/caravan/larger van options. If the OP is only two people and a dog this is never going to be an issue for them.
There are numerous ways to customise the van for your own preferred setup, our setup is constantly evolving but that is half the fun for me anyway. Solar panels, pull our trays, customised storage boxes, lighting solutions, etc. are all possible and there is a large community out there to draw inspiration from.
At the same time the van is very useful tool to have, for example it will swallow a full height Ikea Pax wardrobe with no issue:
Yes, the price of the van would buy a lot of hotel nights, but I can't drive a hotel room and hotel stays have a 100% depreciation rate.
Ultimately, choosing the right van for your own personal circumstances is quite unique. The OP needs to consider where they want to go and how else they want to use the van.
Edited by RedWhiteMonkey on Tuesday 14th July 09:13
CAH706 said:
Freakuk said:
I know nothing about campers, sorry.... BUT one of friends does conversions for a living, specifically Transporters and has a great business and lots of returning customers and word of mouth.
He's in Chorley, so not too far from you I guess. He usually converts customers base vans or buys brand new vans from VW and converts, but he does occasionally have a van or two in stock that has been traded against something else or he's 2nd hand and converted/waiting conversion.
I can PM his details phone/website etc if interested.
Yes that is close to me.He's in Chorley, so not too far from you I guess. He usually converts customers base vans or buys brand new vans from VW and converts, but he does occasionally have a van or two in stock that has been traded against something else or he's 2nd hand and converted/waiting conversion.
I can PM his details phone/website etc if interested.
If you could PM the details that would be great
Thanks again all. There are some really useful and helpful points made.
To clarify as I probably confused things a little. I have a car for daily duties but the dog doesn’t fit in it. It’s a Hyundai Inster.
A second car (Honda touring) is currently used as and when he needs to go places eg vets, groomers or a different place to walk. The last 2 months he’s been in the car orce. He’s getting older and we generally walk in the fields around my house now. If I get a van I’d use this to take him places as and when needed. We did use the Honda for airport trips etc but now we use a taxi so no issues there.
We also have my sons car to use (again not suitable for the dog) as he won’t take this to uni.
I’m retired so have time on my hands and thought a van may allow me to visit my son at Uni and explore our country a bit on the way down or back. It would mean I could take the dog new places on this trip as well.
I have thought using hotels may be a more sensible option but I’d still need to change my second car as it’s aging. The Inster doesnt work for longer motorway journeys.
I’d a trick decision and I’m hoping hiring a van will help me decide what to do
To clarify as I probably confused things a little. I have a car for daily duties but the dog doesn’t fit in it. It’s a Hyundai Inster.
A second car (Honda touring) is currently used as and when he needs to go places eg vets, groomers or a different place to walk. The last 2 months he’s been in the car orce. He’s getting older and we generally walk in the fields around my house now. If I get a van I’d use this to take him places as and when needed. We did use the Honda for airport trips etc but now we use a taxi so no issues there.
We also have my sons car to use (again not suitable for the dog) as he won’t take this to uni.
I’m retired so have time on my hands and thought a van may allow me to visit my son at Uni and explore our country a bit on the way down or back. It would mean I could take the dog new places on this trip as well.
I have thought using hotels may be a more sensible option but I’d still need to change my second car as it’s aging. The Inster doesnt work for longer motorway journeys.
I’d a trick decision and I’m hoping hiring a van will help me decide what to do
paddy1970 said:
I would not spend £30k yet. Work out how many nights a year you will realistically use it. Once you include depreciation, insurance, maintenance, repairs and the capital tied up in the van, you can buy an awful lot of hotels and B&Bs for the same money.
My calculation gives a break even point of 30-50 nights a year...and that's being very generous.
Assume the campervan retains £20,000 of value after five years, that is £10,000 depreciation alone. Add perhaps £1,500 £2,500 per year in ownership and maintenance costs, depending upon usage and reliability, and the effective cost could easily approach £4,000 £5,000 per year before fuel and campsite fees.
At £150 per night, £5,000 buys 33 nights of good hotel accommodation every year. At £100 per night, it buys 50 nights.
I also think £30,000 is an awkward price point. It is enough money to represent a substantial financial commitment, but not necessarily enough to eliminate the risk of buying an older conversion with expensive problems.
You're missing the point.My calculation gives a break even point of 30-50 nights a year...and that's being very generous.
Assume the campervan retains £20,000 of value after five years, that is £10,000 depreciation alone. Add perhaps £1,500 £2,500 per year in ownership and maintenance costs, depending upon usage and reliability, and the effective cost could easily approach £4,000 £5,000 per year before fuel and campsite fees.
At £150 per night, £5,000 buys 33 nights of good hotel accommodation every year. At £100 per night, it buys 50 nights.
I also think £30,000 is an awkward price point. It is enough money to represent a substantial financial commitment, but not necessarily enough to eliminate the risk of buying an older conversion with expensive problems.
£150 is Premier Inn money these days
£30 is unlimited sea views with direct sea access at Shell Island
A hotel is just a bed. Once you add eating out three times a day, coffees, parking, and dog boarding (if you have one), a "cheap" weekend away easily costs £250+ a day. In a van, you buy groceries from the local Lidl and cook. The real break-even point isn't 33 nights—it’s closer to 15.
Standard cars tank in value, but decent, professionally converted UK vans (especially VW T5/T6s or factory Californias) have iron-clad residuals. Buy a solid used one for £30k, take care of it for five years, and it’ll still easily fetch £25k. Your real-world depreciation is closer to £1k a year, not £2k.
£30k is the Safe Sweet Spot. It’s actually the safest entry point. It gets you out of the sketchy "DIY home-build" bracket and into clean, professionally converted vans where the first owner has already swallowed the massive initial depreciation hit.
If you book a £150/night B&B in the Lakes three months in advance and it chucks it down, you either go and suffer or lose your deposit. With a van, you look at the forecast on Thursday night. If Cumbria is flooded but Pembrokeshire is sunny, you just turn the wheel.
You aren't buying a depreciating asset; you're buying the freedom to pack a bag on a Friday after work, hit the road, and be parked up by a beach by sunset without a single booking confirmation.
As long as you buy a desirable, well-converted model, you are essentially "renting" a massive lifestyle upgrade for about £1,500 a year in real depreciation and maintenance. Bargain.
OP - definitely go and try a few. I think you would be sorted in a T6 or for cheaper options a Ford / Renault conversion.
CAH706 said:
I m retired so have time on my hands and thought a van may allow me to visit my son at Uni and explore our country a bit on the way down or back. It would mean I could take the dog new places on this trip as well.
You are very much in the same boat as me. I've been running the Vikingettes up and down the country to Uni for the past 5 years. V2 is in Manchester and can be 5 or 6 hours for Kent to Manchester, a few hours to unload and take them to a supermarket and dinner, and then 5 or 6 hours back home makes for a very long day on boring motorways.I started looking staying the night and most Uni moves and visits are "off-peak" and Travelodges and Premier Inns are in the £20-40 range and the cheaper the better considering I've slept in flowerbeds in my youth.
So I now always stay the night and do something on the way home. Favourite is the Glossop Travelodge - located in an old Mill/bobbin building, free parking in the town centre, on top of a Wetherspoon for breakfast, M&S Food Hall opposite, Lidl next door etc, and 15 minutes from Snake Pass and a walk up to B29 underexposed, or a visit to a National Trust place or two.
I've also driven 3+ hours from Manchester to Skegness, had fish and chips and then driven home. A long day with a lot of driving, but driving at 40-50mph with lovely views and a slower pace listening to music.
paddy1970 said:
I would not spend £30k yet. Work out how many nights a year you will realistically use it. Once you include depreciation, insurance, maintenance, repairs and the capital tied up in the van, you can buy an awful lot of hotels and B&Bs for the same money.
My calculation gives a break even point of 30-50 nights a year...and that's being very generous.
Assume the campervan retains £20,000 of value after five years, that is £10,000 depreciation alone. Add perhaps £1,500 £2,500 per year in ownership and maintenance costs, depending upon usage and reliability, and the effective cost could easily approach £4,000 £5,000 per year before fuel and campsite fees.
At £150 per night, £5,000 buys 33 nights of good hotel accommodation every year. At £100 per night, it buys 50 nights.
I also think £30,000 is an awkward price point. It is enough money to represent a substantial financial commitment, but not necessarily enough to eliminate the risk of buying an older conversion with expensive problems.
Depreciation figures are somewhat pessimistic unless you choose poorly when buying. If a campervan is also being used as a 2nd car, depreciation needs to be compared to a car (usually favourably).My calculation gives a break even point of 30-50 nights a year...and that's being very generous.
Assume the campervan retains £20,000 of value after five years, that is £10,000 depreciation alone. Add perhaps £1,500 £2,500 per year in ownership and maintenance costs, depending upon usage and reliability, and the effective cost could easily approach £4,000 £5,000 per year before fuel and campsite fees.
At £150 per night, £5,000 buys 33 nights of good hotel accommodation every year. At £100 per night, it buys 50 nights.
I also think £30,000 is an awkward price point. It is enough money to represent a substantial financial commitment, but not necessarily enough to eliminate the risk of buying an older conversion with expensive problems.
The hotel comparison always comes up in these threads but for me, it isn’t an equivalence. We use the campervan to have quality downtime away from home, whether it’s just as a day van at the beach, a weekend away or a longer touring holiday previously with the OH and now with the kids.
I’m not getting this from a £100-150 a night hotel - round here that’s barely getting me a premier inn next to a dual carriageway. How much for an airbnb for a family of 4 on a lakefront in the mountains for example?
Even so, not everything comes down to purely economic considerations - otherwise this motoring forum would be a dull place!
I think only people who don’t have a camper/caravan use the it buys a lot of hotel rooms, yes it might but you cannot get a hotel room in the centre of donington to watch a days racing, you won’t get a decent room in Cornwall for £100, it would be more like £350 this time of year, yes they depreciate and cost tax / insurance but if it’s a second car that you would have anyway then the costs are already covered.
Another California-alike option would be the Mercedes Marco Polo - same layout as the Ocean, a little bit smaller, but better quality interior and much more car like to drive. A Bus and Beyond on Youtube did a comparison video a few years ago which would give a good idea of the tradeoffs between each van.
RedWhiteMonkey said:
If you don't want a kitchen inside then look for a VW California Beach. I have one, we've camped all over Europe in it and until recently it was also our only family car. An incredibly versatile vehicle.
Agree with this. Ours is proving to be such a versatile vehicle. Tandem in it one weekend in June, 5 adults and airport run to Heathrow the next weekend, camping in Wiltshire for us as a couple last weekend and down to Exeter camping for 4 at my sons graduation last night. Also fits in car parks.I use a VW California as my daily driver as we do not have space for 3 cars on our driveway. This is our second VW camper and it is the best thing we have done. It's not just the nights away. The ability to pop the top and swivel the seats means you can use it as a base for the day. We love parking next to a beach, making a brew or a bacon roll and enjoying the view. You can get changed inside a lot easier than in a car. The fridge is a game changer in this weather. Also being able to fit in a regular car park space and being under 2m tall means it fits in a lot more places than a larger van. Another bonus is going for a few nights away. It doesn't have to be miles away, but when you are sat in a quiet spot in the sunshine with a cold drink, what's not to like? Having solar panels is a game changer as you don't have to worry about having to find a pitch with electric hook up. You can go away and not have to worry about how long the fridge is going to last or if you can charge your phone by the end of the week. I'm taking RosscoPCole Jr to the Open golf this week and using the van to sleep in. If we didn't have it I wouldn't have been able to go as hotel prices were extortionate. There is a huge VW community out there and you can get as much or as little from it as you want. Just do your homework first, hire one a couple of times and see if it suits you and you suit it.
Edited by RosscoPCole on Wednesday 15th July 05:54
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