Recommend me a book about the troubles in Ireland
Discussion
FredericRobinson said:
Well you're not going to understand the Troubles if you pay no heed to anything that happened pre 1968
Are you being obtuse, why would that be ? All you need to know for the purposes of this discussion is that Catholics were not granted the same rights as other NI residents
in 1968 and it had come to a head due to protests by Catholics for equal rights.
Now read on, no need to invoke friggin' Cromwell and Wolfe Tone.
Cantaloupe said:
Are you being obtuse, why would that be ?
All you need to know for the purposes of this discussion is that Catholics were not granted the same rights as other NI residents
in 1968 and it had come to a head due to protests by Catholics for equal rights.
Now read on, no need to invoke friggin' Cromwell and Wolfe Tone.
I agree with others. The origins of "the troubles" started well before the late 60s. You do need the background of the last 800 years to understand what happened in the 20th century, and the eventual partition of Ireland. All this history will provide the background to "the troubles" starting in the late 60s. All you need to know for the purposes of this discussion is that Catholics were not granted the same rights as other NI residents
in 1968 and it had come to a head due to protests by Catholics for equal rights.
Now read on, no need to invoke friggin' Cromwell and Wolfe Tone.
Cantaloupe said:
Are you being obtuse, why would that be ?
All you need to know for the purposes of this discussion is that Catholics were not granted the same rights as other NI residents
in 1968 and it had come to a head due to protests by Catholics for equal rights.
Now read on, no need to invoke friggin' Cromwell and Wolfe Tone.
The question asked was for a book giving 'a broad understanding of what started the troubles ...'All you need to know for the purposes of this discussion is that Catholics were not granted the same rights as other NI residents
in 1968 and it had come to a head due to protests by Catholics for equal rights.
Now read on, no need to invoke friggin' Cromwell and Wolfe Tone.
A great read is Watching the Door by Kevin Myers
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Watching-Door-Cheating-De...
Not a broad understanding but a good account of what it was like to be there as young reporter with contact with all sides of the conflict
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Watching-Door-Cheating-De...
Not a broad understanding but a good account of what it was like to be there as young reporter with contact with all sides of the conflict
Derek Smith said:
Nothing stands on its own, and that is a significant problem with all history, not just Ireland.
For instance, the potato famine was terrible. Relief was sent in, but too late in the eyes of most. On its own, it looks as if the USA pushing for it to be an act of genocide is a slam dunk. However, and it is a big one, also read about what was going on in England, and to a slightly lesser extent (according to many reports, although, of course, they might not be accurate) in Wales. There were more deaths from starvation on this side of the Irish Sea. The belief was that individuals should look out for themselves. Workhouses were brought in to overcome the problem of the starving. In reality, getting them off the street so as not to be a spectacle. They lasted until the mid 30s, my father having to walk past one on his way to school
Read also the poor laws. These, or at least the belief in them, continued up until WWII.
Further, in England, it was normal for corpses of starving peasants to be at the side of the road. You can't understand the potato famine without reading Rural Rides. Then there's the Battle of Waterloo, the removal of any threat to the UK from the sea. The Vagrancy Acts were brought it to further reduce the ability of the poor to offend the eye. These were still in existence, in modified form, when I joined the police in 1975.
Ireland was a part of the UK at the time, so should be viewed according to what was happening as a whole. Whilst few in authority gave a damn what happened to the Irish peasants, beyond limiting profits, the same mind-set went for the rest of the UK.
The so-called troubles, at least that bit since 1969, was, in fact, a civil war, one without set pieces but still a war as such. The way it was fought, with all its errors and horrors, should be viewed with the inclusion of how other countries dealt with their civil wars.
The Irish troubles is a history of the UK and should be looked at from all sides. One aspect to take care with is propaganda. You can still read histories of food being taken away from Ireland during the famine when in point of fact, easily found port documents show that there was a net import from other parts of the UK. You'll find that the USA saved the lives of many by bringing in relief. That's not so much not quite right as wrong. The same problems arise when researching the history from 1969.
The truth is always hidden in history of course. Just don't take it seriously.
That's really interesting and informative. There is always more to the story than the press or popular opinion may reveal. For instance, the potato famine was terrible. Relief was sent in, but too late in the eyes of most. On its own, it looks as if the USA pushing for it to be an act of genocide is a slam dunk. However, and it is a big one, also read about what was going on in England, and to a slightly lesser extent (according to many reports, although, of course, they might not be accurate) in Wales. There were more deaths from starvation on this side of the Irish Sea. The belief was that individuals should look out for themselves. Workhouses were brought in to overcome the problem of the starving. In reality, getting them off the street so as not to be a spectacle. They lasted until the mid 30s, my father having to walk past one on his way to school
Read also the poor laws. These, or at least the belief in them, continued up until WWII.
Further, in England, it was normal for corpses of starving peasants to be at the side of the road. You can't understand the potato famine without reading Rural Rides. Then there's the Battle of Waterloo, the removal of any threat to the UK from the sea. The Vagrancy Acts were brought it to further reduce the ability of the poor to offend the eye. These were still in existence, in modified form, when I joined the police in 1975.
Ireland was a part of the UK at the time, so should be viewed according to what was happening as a whole. Whilst few in authority gave a damn what happened to the Irish peasants, beyond limiting profits, the same mind-set went for the rest of the UK.
The so-called troubles, at least that bit since 1969, was, in fact, a civil war, one without set pieces but still a war as such. The way it was fought, with all its errors and horrors, should be viewed with the inclusion of how other countries dealt with their civil wars.
The Irish troubles is a history of the UK and should be looked at from all sides. One aspect to take care with is propaganda. You can still read histories of food being taken away from Ireland during the famine when in point of fact, easily found port documents show that there was a net import from other parts of the UK. You'll find that the USA saved the lives of many by bringing in relief. That's not so much not quite right as wrong. The same problems arise when researching the history from 1969.
The truth is always hidden in history of course. Just don't take it seriously.
There is a push at the moment to re-write history to suit the current political agenda, though I suppose this has always gone on. North American history now seems to revolve exclusively around the slave trade and the destruction of the indigenous population by the European explorers / invaders / colonists. All else seems unimportant. Of course things are far more complex than that and "The Troubles" are no exception.
First visit to N Ireland was circa 86 , got blown up in our hotel . Went to the Republic in 89 and for a few years after , great place . Life took hold and never got back there until 02 ,first night in a tiny West Cork village my wife and I walked into the local bar , which we found was adorned with IRA memorabilia , place went quiet and after asking for a Guinness the landlords first words to me were "What do you think about the troubles ?" 
Nearly shat myself but must've given a good response as we went back for years after , even as house guests at the pub .
edited , spelling .
Nearly shat myself but must've given a good response as we went back for years after , even as house guests at the pub .edited , spelling .
MYOB said:
There is no "truth" in history. It's all about perspective and interpretation.
Many years ago, when I was doing O level history, we got a new teacher just as we were about to start the O level studies, and the ifrst words he said to us were "history is mainly a set of lies agreed upon by the winners."TwigtheWonderkid said:
MYOB said:
There is no "truth" in history. It's all about perspective and interpretation.
Many years ago, when I was doing O level history, we got a new teacher just as we were about to start the O level studies, and the ifrst words he said to us were "history is mainly a set of lies agreed upon by the winners."Many years too late for the OP, but none the less, I'd recommend Martin Dillon's. 'The Dirty War' as a great book about the troubles, balanced and seemingly with no agenda, which I find is rare.
While a book of fiction, 'A Star Called Henry' by Roddy Doyle to me gave a insight into the other set of troubles in Ireland that of the civil war after the Irish War of Independence.
While a book of fiction, 'A Star Called Henry' by Roddy Doyle to me gave a insight into the other set of troubles in Ireland that of the civil war after the Irish War of Independence.
Gassing Station | Books and Literature | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff