Is there a god/Allah/Supreme being?
Discussion
GasBlaster said:
Occam's razor?
Occam's razor is a logical principle attributed to the mediaeval philosopher William of Occam (or Ockham). The principle states that one should not make more assumptions than the minimum needed. This principle is often called the principle of parsimony. It underlies all scientific modelling and theory building. It admonishes us to choose from a set of otherwise equivalent models of a given phenomenon the simplest one.
Saying that you are f**ked because you don't believe in someones god is what keeps religion going isn't it. I mean isn't religion a way of keeping everyone in line. In my opinion, feeling the need to follow a religion is a sign of weakness. I don't feel compelled to follow anyones religion just because some one taught me I should in school. Suppose I was stranded on a desert island since an early age and no one had told me about this so called 'god' thing? Would I have invented him in my own mind as a comfort blanket? So did god invent man or man invent god?
No, sorry, I don't believe a word of it and I'm not scared to go through life with faith in nothing but my own ability to go through life as best I can. We're here for less than the blink of an eye and we should make the most of it and stop killing each other in the name of our religion. Here's a thought, when a suicide bomber kills hundreds of people in the belief that what he does takes him on to paradise, isn't he going to be a bit p1ssed off when he finds that the lights just go out and that's it? No, because he doesn't possess concious thought any more. It evaporated along with everything else. The problem is he can't come back and tell his colleagues, "Hey, stop what we're doing, it doesn't work!" If there was some supreme being, surely he would stop crazy acts liek this and have the humility to not make his followers kneel in front of him.
Also, I don't believe that just because I don't follow a faith, bad things will happen to me on my death. I'm not a bad person, I don't steal, kill, decieve, fiddle with kids etc etc...I'm even quite Courteous on the road! However, I've seen plenty of priests on the telly who've done plenty of bad in their lives but presumably, "it was gods way". But that's just it isn't it? When good things happen in the world it's because of gods wonderful intervention, when bad things happen it's because he 'works in mysterious ways'
Rant over, for now
No, sorry, I don't believe a word of it and I'm not scared to go through life with faith in nothing but my own ability to go through life as best I can. We're here for less than the blink of an eye and we should make the most of it and stop killing each other in the name of our religion. Here's a thought, when a suicide bomber kills hundreds of people in the belief that what he does takes him on to paradise, isn't he going to be a bit p1ssed off when he finds that the lights just go out and that's it? No, because he doesn't possess concious thought any more. It evaporated along with everything else. The problem is he can't come back and tell his colleagues, "Hey, stop what we're doing, it doesn't work!" If there was some supreme being, surely he would stop crazy acts liek this and have the humility to not make his followers kneel in front of him.
Also, I don't believe that just because I don't follow a faith, bad things will happen to me on my death. I'm not a bad person, I don't steal, kill, decieve, fiddle with kids etc etc...I'm even quite Courteous on the road! However, I've seen plenty of priests on the telly who've done plenty of bad in their lives but presumably, "it was gods way". But that's just it isn't it? When good things happen in the world it's because of gods wonderful intervention, when bad things happen it's because he 'works in mysterious ways'
Rant over, for now
Ok, a theory
Him (whomever it was) created a couple of demi-gods, Krishna, Budda, Satan and of course good old God of earth
One day he decided to put his creations to the test and gave them all the power to create .. Told each one to go ahead and create his perfect world, a world which in his perception would be the nirvana to live in for eternity (whatever that may be). So, each of these gods created his world, the world and place which in his mind would surfice as a paradise, a place where all is good and all are good ...all the while creating their own gods to rule their worlds (but that list could be contentious to say the least ...there are now so many we can't list them all in here in one posting)
Anyway, Moving along a couple of millenia ...
He (almighty) was pleased with his creations and creators, he praised them and sent them off to live in their little worlds .... However, something was amiss here, God was bored, he wanted more,. he wanted to prove to his almighty (well, who the hell do you think made him??) that he could do better than just this simple experiment of creativity.
He calls the demi-gods away from their everyday tasks (these guys weren't too busy, they lived in perfect worlds remember, worlds in which they had supremacy, and they were not challenged) and asks them to fulfill his deepest desire, he wanted a single world where all their people could live together, a world where all those creations (man and beast, and if anyone calls my missus a beast again there's gonna be terrible trouble).
Ok, so off these gods go, into a little football type huddle, chat amongst themsleves for a while and decide to accept the challenge ... Crash, bang alacabaaaam .. The it was ... Ooooh so beautiful, (m,aybe they overdid the bloody sea thing) but it was done ... Earth was created ..
Then came day two (You see the pattern here right) he created man and beast (same threat exists people). And they created more and so on and so on.
The reason they had to rest on the seventh day was they were bloody knackerd, plain and simple, You try conjur up so many variations of one being, every shape colour, size ... hell, I am knackered every day just creating project plans, I know how they musta felt!!!
So, they got together and had a blast of an opening party ... Fire and brimstone included. They even created some beings to be humourous (later to be called MP's), to entertain the masses and they let them loose amonst the creations ... well ... Imagine their surpise when He (almighty) was pissed at them for taking the piss and partying in his name, and he banished them all (the gods) to their worlds ....
So, he we are a billion years later, run by nobody, looked after by nobody and in a right fecking mess. In fact, we're at logger heads as to which of the gods had the best sense of humour, who was the untimate freak who did this to a perfectly good planet, which, lets be honest here, was probably a helluva place before he put humans in it ...
Comments are welcome
Him (whomever it was) created a couple of demi-gods, Krishna, Budda, Satan and of course good old God of earth
One day he decided to put his creations to the test and gave them all the power to create .. Told each one to go ahead and create his perfect world, a world which in his perception would be the nirvana to live in for eternity (whatever that may be). So, each of these gods created his world, the world and place which in his mind would surfice as a paradise, a place where all is good and all are good ...all the while creating their own gods to rule their worlds (but that list could be contentious to say the least ...there are now so many we can't list them all in here in one posting)
Anyway, Moving along a couple of millenia ...
He (almighty) was pleased with his creations and creators, he praised them and sent them off to live in their little worlds .... However, something was amiss here, God was bored, he wanted more,. he wanted to prove to his almighty (well, who the hell do you think made him??) that he could do better than just this simple experiment of creativity.
He calls the demi-gods away from their everyday tasks (these guys weren't too busy, they lived in perfect worlds remember, worlds in which they had supremacy, and they were not challenged) and asks them to fulfill his deepest desire, he wanted a single world where all their people could live together, a world where all those creations (man and beast, and if anyone calls my missus a beast again there's gonna be terrible trouble).
Ok, so off these gods go, into a little football type huddle, chat amongst themsleves for a while and decide to accept the challenge ... Crash, bang alacabaaaam .. The it was ... Ooooh so beautiful, (m,aybe they overdid the bloody sea thing) but it was done ... Earth was created ..
Then came day two (You see the pattern here right) he created man and beast (same threat exists people). And they created more and so on and so on.
The reason they had to rest on the seventh day was they were bloody knackerd, plain and simple, You try conjur up so many variations of one being, every shape colour, size ... hell, I am knackered every day just creating project plans, I know how they musta felt!!!
So, they got together and had a blast of an opening party ... Fire and brimstone included. They even created some beings to be humourous (later to be called MP's), to entertain the masses and they let them loose amonst the creations ... well ... Imagine their surpise when He (almighty) was pissed at them for taking the piss and partying in his name, and he banished them all (the gods) to their worlds ....
So, he we are a billion years later, run by nobody, looked after by nobody and in a right fecking mess. In fact, we're at logger heads as to which of the gods had the best sense of humour, who was the untimate freak who did this to a perfectly good planet, which, lets be honest here, was probably a helluva place before he put humans in it ...
Comments are welcome
Did anyone see that episode of Red Dwarf once when they found the first page of the bible ripped out with something like, "All characters and events in this book are fictional, any resemblance to actual persons or events is purely coincidental"...
Quite funny I thought, now back to the discussion
Quite funny I thought, now back to the discussion
TheExcession said:
All proofs are based on experience, all experiences are (fundamentally) based on belief, and therefore all proofs are based on beliefs. To prove a supreme being exists to you, you either need a belief in a supreme being, or to experience a supreme being.
Interesting thread this.
There is another view to some of this. I remember asking a Buddhist scholar once if 'Believing was seeing or seeing was believing?' After a moments thought he respeonded with 'They are both wrong, realising is knowing.'
This statement to me sums up the whole 'supreme being' debate, and in fact many other debates, free will vs determinism, the old what is conciousness paradigm, life after death.
Many of these topics exist in a place outside of the bounds of our 'understanding' and therefore to address them within the constraints of a language precludes any abillity to reach a reasoned conclusion.
To me the belief in a God or supreme being is as you say, entirely down to personal experience. Whether that comes from programming by your parents and society or through a direct experience.
But what I've found following this thread is that no one seems to have taken the time to define what they mean by a God or Supreme Being.
Maybe we could start again defining the purpose and reason for the existence of such an entity.
best
Ex
God/Supreme being is the original creator of 'life force'.
I don't consider myself to be religious - but I know I've existed in other forms in past lives - and will continue to do so in other forms in future lives.
My unshakeable belief is because I've seen beings from other dimensions, and had messages from the other side.
However, I don't feel a need to worship anything - I just know this is a journey to my next life.
condor said:
Jinx said:
All proofs are based on experience, all experiences are (fundamentally) based on belief, and therefore all proofs are based on beliefs. To prove a supreme being exists to you, you either need a belief in a supreme being, or to experience a supreme being.
Interesting thread this.
There is another view to some of this. I remember asking a Buddhist scholar once if 'Believing was seeing or seeing was believing?' After a moments thought he respeonded with 'They are both wrong, realising is knowing.'
This statement to me sums up the whole 'supreme being' debate, and in fact many other debates, free will vs determinism, the old what is conciousness paradigm, life after death.
Many of these topics exist in a place outside of the bounds of our 'understanding' and therefore to address them within the constraints of a language precludes any abillity to reach a reasoned conclusion.
To me the belief in a God or supreme being is as you say, entirely down to personal experience. Whether that comes from programming by your parents and society or through a direct experience.
But what I've found following this thread is that no one seems to have taken the time to define what they mean by a God or Supreme Being.
Maybe we could start again defining the purpose and reason for the existence of such an entity.
best
Ex
God/Supreme being is the original creator of 'life force'.
I don't consider myself to be religious - but I know I've existed in other forms in past lives - and will continue to do so in other forms in future lives.
My unshakeable belief is because I've seen beings from other dimensions, and had messages from the other side.
However, I don't feel a need to worship anything - I just know this is a journey to my next life.
Condor, are you a follower of David Icke?
I'm not a follower of anyone else's beliefs - just my own 
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