Flemke - Is this your McLaren?
Discussion
flemke said:
Rob/Muncher - The blue on the screen (at least on my screen) is pretty close to the actual colour. The thing is, this photo was taken under a grey sky. In normal, clear daylight the paint lightens up considerably and feels a bit shrill.
Something like this in normal light?
www.muncher.org.uk/lastvx/bigimages/lastvx_0312.jpg
Flemke, thanks for the reply, that is more or less what I expected. I still imagine quite a few people would go through Mclaren to get the car to their exact needs anyhow.
In 2003 I sold a Porsche through Taylor & Crawley, well the proprieter was helping out one of his regular customers, I went to their premises to deliver where they had the silver F1 & a Le mans GT car in the showroom...I was fortunate enough to spend an hour or so intensively looking and climbing over the cars...absolutely fascinating the attention to detail was exquisite, I can imagine you spend a fair ammount of time with the car even when you are not driving it.
In 2003 I sold a Porsche through Taylor & Crawley, well the proprieter was helping out one of his regular customers, I went to their premises to deliver where they had the silver F1 & a Le mans GT car in the showroom...I was fortunate enough to spend an hour or so intensively looking and climbing over the cars...absolutely fascinating the attention to detail was exquisite, I can imagine you spend a fair ammount of time with the car even when you are not driving it.
Top answer Flemke!
Did your car belong to a German with the initials HS per chance? HS told me a story of how his car got the mirrors on the A pillars which would suggest he was the first to get it done. Your explanation about Z1 mirrors would however suggest that the price my old chum alluded to was "a Ron price".
BossCerbera,
I don't want to violate confidences, and I don't believe that I would be doing to by saying "yes". To my knowledge the man has no public profile.
When I bought the car I was told what the mirrors supposedly cost. That number, if correct, was definitely a Ron price. They did make bespoke CF doors to cope with the additional aerodynamic stress on the A-pillars.
By coincidence, a friend bought an F1 a couple of months ago. He asked the factory what it would cost to have his car retro-fitted with the high mirrors. He was quoted the same Ron price that HS paid a decade ago.
I don't want to violate confidences, and I don't believe that I would be doing to by saying "yes". To my knowledge the man has no public profile.
When I bought the car I was told what the mirrors supposedly cost. That number, if correct, was definitely a Ron price. They did make bespoke CF doors to cope with the additional aerodynamic stress on the A-pillars.
By coincidence, a friend bought an F1 a couple of months ago. He asked the factory what it would cost to have his car retro-fitted with the high mirrors. He was quoted the same Ron price that HS paid a decade ago.
flemke said:
Flemke, that is one beautiful car
I am glad you said that...
I was a bit concerned - for all you have said worrying that the blue was a bit "shrill"; i was somewhat taken aback to see silver and gold wheels on your car!! 
They (the wheels) will be nicer in a more sedate colour i think!
Ever thought of spinners
thanks for your reply
the car looks fantastic!
im amazed that the wheels where indeed forged mag as i was under the impression that magnesium is susceptible to buckling…obviously this is not the case!
Has the extra weight at the hubs created any adverse handling effect?
And how do they balance a wheel so accurate to make sure you have no vibrations @ 200+mph
>> Edited by Batty FTO on Wednesday 7th December 09:06
thanks for your reply
the car looks fantastic!
im amazed that the wheels where indeed forged mag as i was under the impression that magnesium is susceptible to buckling…obviously this is not the case!
Has the extra weight at the hubs created any adverse handling effect?
And how do they balance a wheel so accurate to make sure you have no vibrations @ 200+mph
>> Edited by Batty FTO on Wednesday 7th December 09:06
flemke said:
BossCerbera,
I don't want to violate confidences, and I don't believe that I would be doing to by saying "yes". To my knowledge the man has no public profile.
When I bought the car I was told what the mirrors supposedly cost. That number, if correct, was definitely a Ron price. They did make bespoke CF doors to cope with the additional aerodynamic stress on the A-pillars.
By coincidence, a friend bought an F1 a couple of months ago. He asked the factory what it would cost to have his car retro-fitted with the high mirrors. He was quoted the same Ron price that HS paid a decade ago.
Well I never, what a small world! The explanation about aero-loads being an issue was what HS told me. Whatever, it was a great tale and the car looks all the better for it IMHO. Do you know what happened to the special UK reg plate that HS outbid the late Steve O'Rourke to get? HS is/was a proper car nut. I remember him telling me that he raced a Ferrari and the handling was very good. In the context of the conversation I thought "old 328 or similar, peculiar verdict" (he was such a quiet guy). The bombshell came in a later conversation when it transpired he'd got one of the last V12 F1 cars (ex-Jean Alesi IIRC and the sister car of Ascari boss Klaus Zwaart's) and THAT was the Ferrari he was talking about handling well!
A couple of years ago I was supposed to be trading a 'go' in my Tuscan Challenge car with a 'go' in an F1 LM (bizarre but true!). Regretfully, diaries never aligned and the opportunity was missed.
>> Edited by BossCerbera on Wednesday 7th December 09:27
Thanks for the answer Flemke. As an aside, I'd just like to say (as others have above) that I do enjoy reading the detail and explanations that you go into within your answers to something such as the wing mirrors so please long may it continue.
To the question above about ground effects; I recall the F1 actually had a form of vacuum in an area just forward of the engine, and a rear venturi, creating a huge amount of 'sucking' down to the road?! Flemke, I hope, will elaborate
Thanks
Tony
To the question above about ground effects; I recall the F1 actually had a form of vacuum in an area just forward of the engine, and a rear venturi, creating a huge amount of 'sucking' down to the road?! Flemke, I hope, will elaborate
Thanks
Tony
_VTEC_ said:
I was going to start another topic on this but if anyone can help with these questions that would be great: 1. Is it true that Mclaren originally went to Honda for an engine? And 2. Does the Mclaren F1 feature ground effect aerodynamics?
Thanks in advance guys.
Then as now three companies made road cars and built great engines - Ferrari, BMW and Honda. As Honda were supplying the engines for Mclaren's race cars, they were the natural choice.
Apparently the two had extensive discussions, but Honda were more inclined towards a high-revving mid-sized engine (3.5-ish) while McL. was beginning to think that 5-ish litres would be the way to go. I gather also that it was unclear how committed Honda was to the project.
G. Murray was pals with Paul Rosche, who for years had been head of engine development at BMW Motorsport. The two had become close in the early '80s when BMW supplied engines to Brabham, for whom Murray was chief designer. One day Rosche and Murray got to talking, Rosche expressed confidence that his team could deliver what Murray wanted within the time available, and that was that.
It seems that a couple of other firms approached McL. and proposed that they be given the assignment of producing an engine for the car. One was Isuzu, who even built a bespoke V12 prototype for McL. This may seem narrow-minded, but somehow I am glad that BMW got the job.
It does have some ground-effects. There is a continuous undertray with rear diffuser and the underside of the nose is curved to increase its surface length. In the undertray, just ahead of the rear axle is a pair of apertures. They open to channels that go past the rear brakes for cooling and exit on top of the rear deck near the wing that flips up. Within the channels is a pair of fans.
The idea is that when you brake a car it pitches forward and its centre of pressure wants to move forward as well, which is destabilising. In the F1 when you brake above 40 mph, I think it is, the wing flips up. That allows the fans to draw a lot more air through the channels from underneath and keeps the CoP relatively constant. With the wing down you get less of a draught.
Batty FTO said:In an article in Race Car Engineering some time ago the author pointed out that, to the automotive metallurgist, "magnesium is the equivalent of cheese". Nonetheless it is good for some things. On Formula One cars the wheels are forged mag.
im amazed that the wheels where indeed forged mag as i was under the impression that magnesium is susceptible to buckling…obviously this is not the case!
Has the extra weight at the hubs created any adverse handling effect?
And how do they balance a wheel so accurate to make sure you have no vibrations @ 200+mph
Magnesium will deform or crack more readily than aluminium if it gets banged. For normal usage this is not a problem.
Its more common failing is that it is highly susceptible to corrosion. You can put a protective coating on it (as you would do with a wheel, and which is why you never see polished, unpainted mag except maybe for a show car), but it can still corrode from within and over time the wheel may become air-permeable. This doesn't exactly help to keep a tyre inflated.
These problems don't apply in Formula One, where wheels are lifed and discarded before they could corrode, they're x-rayed frequently anyhow, and the tall tyre carcase keeps the wheel from being deformed by kerbs.
Aluminium is denser than magnesium. Because of mag's shortcomings, however, not much effort has been spent in developing it, while in the last 10 years ally has benefited from a lot of industrial research. There are now alloys such as 2021 whose S-to-W is good and whose ductility makes it well-suited to the structural demands on a wheel.
You definitely do notice the extra rotational unsprung weight. It makes the car feel less nimble, the steering is heavier and grip on uneven surfaces is compromised. In any case you'd want to minimise RU weight, but when you've increased it from previously you really feel the need to get it as far down as possible.
If the tyre balancing machine is accurate then it's no problem. It used to be that most tyre places didn't have a machine that could accomodate 12" wheels, but that seems to be changing. The standard tyres on the F1 are not available from anyone (literally) except McLaren themselves; the price one pays for a new set would seem sufficient to cover proper balancing.
>> Edited by flemke on Wednesday 7th December 11:41
BossCerbera said:When I got the car it was registered in Germany and that personal plate was not connected to it. I prefer anonymous plates anyhow.
Do you know what happened to the special UK reg plate that HS outbid the late Steve O'Rourke to get? HS is/was a proper car nut. I remember him telling me that he raced a Ferrari and the handling was very good... The bombshell came in a later conversation when it transpired he'd got one of the last V12 F1 cars (ex-Jean Alesi IIRC and the sister car of Ascari boss Klaus Zwaart's)
It was my understanding at the time that he had decided to sell the F1 to get the Ferrari.
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