Elise, VX220 or S2000?
Discussion
Personally I think you are wasting your time posting on here. None of the cars you have mentionned will be dissapointing. They are all fantastic cars and to be honest an average driver would probably put in nearly identical laptimes with the VX (NA), the S1, S2 and S2000.
Everyone will then have their own opinion on them all. I drove the first 3 (I wasnt in the market for an S2000 as I wanted something more focused and had an everyday car). I knew what I wanted. Others will have done that and choosen differently. I suggest that you drive all 4 and you will probably know immediately which one suits your requirements.
Everyone will then have their own opinion on them all. I drove the first 3 (I wasnt in the market for an S2000 as I wanted something more focused and had an everyday car). I knew what I wanted. Others will have done that and choosen differently. I suggest that you drive all 4 and you will probably know immediately which one suits your requirements.
got a similar problem at the moment. Elise, VX220, Noble M12, or a house.
Every Elise I've seen has been messed around with. I want something that is still untouched. Used but unmolested.
VX220s are looking good at £11k. Less modifications. Slightly more reserved owners in general.
I also prefer the VX220 looks than the Elise S1. Everything else about the two are the same though - hardly suprising.
Every Elise I've seen has been messed around with. I want something that is still untouched. Used but unmolested.
VX220s are looking good at £11k. Less modifications. Slightly more reserved owners in general.
I also prefer the VX220 looks than the Elise S1. Everything else about the two are the same though - hardly suprising.
blindswelledrat said:
Rawwr: Budget is not fixed. Is an S2 that much better?
I'd probably get burned and/or crucified for saying this on a particular Lotus forum but...
I've owned a standard S1, standard S2 and 190 340R. I've had long drives in several S1 111S, S2 111S, S1 Sport 135, S1 Sport 160, S1 Sport 190, S2 135R, S1 Exige, S2 Exige blah blah blah. I think the only variant I've never had a thrash in is the S2 Sport 190 so...
Get a standard S2. A lot of people will advocate the S2 111S because of it's extra power (it uses a 156bhp variant of the K Series VVC engine instead of the standard 120bhp K), but unfortunatley it's let down by being mated to an absolutely hateful gearbox which makes it feel lazy and restricted.
Go to http://forums.seloc.org if you want to have the full argument
Harry Flashman said:
Why would anyone want an S1 Elise over a VX220? 
A number of reasons that I cant be arsed to go into. In short, it suited my needs as a weekend only trackday and back road car. If I was using it daily, I would have bought either an S2 Elise or a VX220.
Fair cop Schnozzer, and I wasn't being rude. It's just that I have tried both series of Elise and a VX - and the S1 seems like a different generation of car to the S2 & VX (which I suppose it is). To me, the Vauxhall is a much better car (if not quite as sharp a driving tool) than a similarly priced S1 Elise.
Mind you, I have seen a few S2 Elises at £14k. That's mighty tempting...
£14k would be an expensive early S2. There are plenty around for less....
It is a much better car. I didn't want a car, I have a Celica to do the "car" stuff. I wanted something very precise and, in effect, a slightly more practical caterham/race car for the road. The S1 does that, the S2 was more grown up and less direct. It made the Elise a car, not a toy. Horses for courses.
S2000 will have the highest running costs and substantial parts costs, but will be the best-built, have the best engine note, best gearbox, and be the quickest by far in a straight line. Got a very good rep in all areas EXCEPT steering feel...and the tail can be rather twitchy in the wet (but then the other two are mid-engined, so it's all relative I guess...)
But you'll only get an old one for £11k.
Elise S1 has a bit of a build quality problem, but will be cheaper to run and insure than S2000. Will also have LOTS more feedback and consequently more involvement in the car, although seats aren't for everyone and it will probably leak. Heater will take ages to demist the screen of a morning too! But it'll be the slowest in a straight-line...
£11k should get a tidy S1, but won't stretch to an S2 or a higher-power version unless you find a tired 111S
VX220 is a nice balance - quick enough real-world, looks very striking, better built than S1 (based on S2 with modified rear sub-frame IIRC), and will be notably newer for the money than an Elise - powertrain in the one I drove was pretty good, not Honda quality but perfectly livable day-to-day. But some of the Elise gripes still apply...
And £11k should be enough for a decent one, although I'd try and stretch to £12k, avoid the earliest ones with a few build-quality issues.
But you'll only get an old one for £11k.
Elise S1 has a bit of a build quality problem, but will be cheaper to run and insure than S2000. Will also have LOTS more feedback and consequently more involvement in the car, although seats aren't for everyone and it will probably leak. Heater will take ages to demist the screen of a morning too! But it'll be the slowest in a straight-line...
£11k should get a tidy S1, but won't stretch to an S2 or a higher-power version unless you find a tired 111S
VX220 is a nice balance - quick enough real-world, looks very striking, better built than S1 (based on S2 with modified rear sub-frame IIRC), and will be notably newer for the money than an Elise - powertrain in the one I drove was pretty good, not Honda quality but perfectly livable day-to-day. But some of the Elise gripes still apply...
And £11k should be enough for a decent one, although I'd try and stretch to £12k, avoid the earliest ones with a few build-quality issues.
Rawwr said:I would never have bought my Elise had it come with the Rover power plant.
Whats wrong with 11k elise?
It would be similar age/mileage to the VX220 from my brief forays into autotrader?
Are they not near-identical cars?
As it happens I was leaning towards the VX simply out of aesthetic preference but I'm curious as to your responses?
Nothing's wrong with it, per se, but I'd go for the one with the more reliable engine and gearbox, cheaper servicing, less niggles, arguably better build quality and easier softtop.
See profile for experience.
The Toyota engine was the deal sealer for me.
I think the K-Series engine is a bit of a lottery. The one in my Caterham has done over 85000 miles with no problems (standard 115bhp 1.6) including touring in Europe and USA and track days. But then some friends have had many problems with them, mainly head gaskets and starter motors.
Don't write off the K-Series but get one with a few miles on it and a FSH.
Don't write off the K-Series but get one with a few miles on it and a FSH.
Needless to say I'd recommend the VX220 2.2
As said earlier, 95% of the fun with a much better ownership experience and tuning potential. It costs a lot less to run than an equivalent S2 Elise.
:: A lot cheaper to insure and service than an Elise
:: The 2.2 develops more torque than any Elise/Exige (other than supercharged versions)
:: An absolutely bulletproof unstressed drivetrain, with better tuning options.
The VXT is quicker but doesn't feel quicker. The driving experience is slightly dulled, the suspension is softer and more suited to road driving, it just feels a bit heavier and less nimble.
Drive them all and see which suits you best, they are all great cars.
As said earlier, 95% of the fun with a much better ownership experience and tuning potential. It costs a lot less to run than an equivalent S2 Elise.
:: A lot cheaper to insure and service than an Elise
:: The 2.2 develops more torque than any Elise/Exige (other than supercharged versions)
:: An absolutely bulletproof unstressed drivetrain, with better tuning options.
The VXT is quicker but doesn't feel quicker. The driving experience is slightly dulled, the suspension is softer and more suited to road driving, it just feels a bit heavier and less nimble.
Drive them all and see which suits you best, they are all great cars.
serious question here chaps, why does everyone seem to rule out the s2000 instantly? I think they'd be a good laugh, true could be insurance a killer, but wouldn't have thought much worse than a non bog standard elise?
I've heard lots of stories about less than keen drivers ending up the wrong way, but that can't be why you guys arn't recommending it?
I've heard lots of stories about less than keen drivers ending up the wrong way, but that can't be why you guys arn't recommending it?
angrys3owner said:
serious question here chaps, why does everyone seem to rule out the s2000 instantly? I think they'd be a good laugh, true could be insurance a killer, but wouldn't have thought much worse than a non bog standard elise?
I've heard lots of stories about less than keen drivers ending up the wrong way, but that can't be why you guys arn't recommending it?
Relative to the Elise, I've had more fun whilst sleeping.
>> Edited by Rawwr on Thursday 5th January 16:55
I've driven Elise and S2000. See my reviews at www.my200sx.co.uk (my friend's website - just click on "reviews"
.
* push bike or walk for the 2 miles to the station each day
* weekends? Elise if you never carry luggage and don't mind a fiddly hood - S2000 for a much more liveable car, though it is nowhere near the "driver's car" that the Elise is (of course). If you drive them the difference will be massive and obvious
I'm sure you'll love either whichever you buy I'm just not sure I'd subject my pride and joy to 20 miles a week with none of the fluids up to temperature - it's not kind on the car at all. Besides, the walk will be good for you! 
. * push bike or walk for the 2 miles to the station each day
* weekends? Elise if you never carry luggage and don't mind a fiddly hood - S2000 for a much more liveable car, though it is nowhere near the "driver's car" that the Elise is (of course). If you drive them the difference will be massive and obvious
I'm sure you'll love either whichever you buy
I'm just not sure I'd subject my pride and joy to 20 miles a week with none of the fluids up to temperature - it's not kind on the car at all. Besides, the walk will be good for you! angrys3owner said:
serious question here chaps, why does everyone seem to rule out the s2000 instantly? I think they'd be a good laugh, true could be insurance a killer, but wouldn't have thought much worse than a non bog standard elise?
I've heard lots of stories about less than keen drivers ending up the wrong way, but that can't be why you guys arn't recommending it?
Because it is not in the same mould as the Elise/VX. On track, they also appear a lot more of a handful. The added comfort for many is outweighed by being a lot less driver focused. Many would only consider one if the Elise/VX was "too hardcore" for daily driving.
Rawwr said:
stuff
That bad hey? I was thinking about getting either an S2000 or an elise last year and never quite got as far as test driving, seemed a good idea on paper, nutty 240bhp engine and rwd... guess the elise is more focused and quite a bit lighter though.
edited for serious mis quote
>> Edited by angrys3owner on Thursday 5th January 17:06
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