What are the best handling front wheel drive cars ever?
Discussion
Can I chip in with another vote for the 309GTi? I didn't buy the 205 because I needed the boot space and the insurance was much higher, but when I got to drive one I was glad I went for the 309. Could be placed millimeter perfect on fast B roads, and even my wife dubbed it a "hooligan car" - because it just begged to be driven hard everywhere.
Performance Car magazine rated it "one of the best fwd chassis ever" at the time, and you'd think it should have been bettered by now, but I guess the big advantage it had was that it was so light. It had no ABS, door impact beams, airbags, seatbelt pre-tensioners etc and the metal was wafer-thin. It's no surprise it's taken VW so long to make a Golf GTi that the press rate as highly as the original, even though it needs at least twice the power to achieve it...
Performance Car magazine rated it "one of the best fwd chassis ever" at the time, and you'd think it should have been bettered by now, but I guess the big advantage it had was that it was so light. It had no ABS, door impact beams, airbags, seatbelt pre-tensioners etc and the metal was wafer-thin. It's no surprise it's taken VW so long to make a Golf GTi that the press rate as highly as the original, even though it needs at least twice the power to achieve it...
thekirbyfake said:
Currently it stands at votes for Integra Type-R = 1; Pug 309 = 58.
WTF is the world coming to?
The fact that more folks are likely to have driven a car that's around in spades and that one's been able to pick up for £1K or less for quite some time now, somewhere along the line, than to have actual experience with one that came to these shores in fairly limited numbers and still commands like £10K (don't know the actual market prices, it's the general idea that counts)?
The 309 was a good handling front wheel drive car, but it wasn't really a good car. I know lots of people who had Mi16 engines in them and ended up through walls and in people's gardens upside down.
I was wanting a 309 GTI for a time (not for the above use), they do look pretty nice, but next to the 405 Mi16 Lemans they are just soooo naff
I'd honestly say from having driven not that many cars near their real true limits that one of the best handling fwd cars was the 405 to be honest. Not keen on the overly pointy 306/205, which is probably why so many like the 309 over the 205, because it's longer and more stable. Turn in dulled, but mid-corner adjustability alot more friendly, which is the way I feel about my 306 vs 405 Mi/Tdi. Shorter wheel bases are fun and pointy, but the longer the car the more corner confidence you had, ie higher speeds and more fun because it felt more comfortable, but I guess it depends on how you like your fun
Following that trend I hear the Accord Type R is meant to be pretty nice too (Evo say one of the best FWD chassis ever), and is a bit longer than the CTR... not sure about the Teggy wheelbase wise though, hmmmmm...
Dave
I was wanting a 309 GTI for a time (not for the above use), they do look pretty nice, but next to the 405 Mi16 Lemans they are just soooo naff
I'd honestly say from having driven not that many cars near their real true limits that one of the best handling fwd cars was the 405 to be honest. Not keen on the overly pointy 306/205, which is probably why so many like the 309 over the 205, because it's longer and more stable. Turn in dulled, but mid-corner adjustability alot more friendly, which is the way I feel about my 306 vs 405 Mi/Tdi. Shorter wheel bases are fun and pointy, but the longer the car the more corner confidence you had, ie higher speeds and more fun because it felt more comfortable, but I guess it depends on how you like your fun
Following that trend I hear the Accord Type R is meant to be pretty nice too (Evo say one of the best FWD chassis ever), and is a bit longer than the CTR... not sure about the Teggy wheelbase wise though, hmmmmm...
Dave
I loved my 309s handling - provided you could live with body roll and trust it, it would just keep on sticking. As it proved many a time.
However, I also love the lancia betas handling, for having the right mix of 'stick-it' and let you know whats happening so that you know when youre approaching the limits, rather than having it announced through the sound of metal vs stone.
However, I also love the lancia betas handling, for having the right mix of 'stick-it' and let you know whats happening so that you know when youre approaching the limits, rather than having it announced through the sound of metal vs stone.
Frik said:
So basically it's
original poster said:
Best handling FWD car?
everyone else said:
Mine
Popularity is hardly a good indication of quality...
I'd question that statement.
I recently bought a wireless router/modem and had it recommended from many people. The Amazon reviews were good, and it had an almost 100% rating there too.
It is a quality product.
I agree cars are a tougher subject, because people usually spend so much on them they can't accept they are crap when they infact are. But poularity can be very likely due to the quality of said product!
Dave
fourwheelsteer said:
4th Generation Honda Prelude with 4WS - Honda's electrically actuated 4WS is even more subtle and brilliant than their original mechanical 4WS.
3rd Generation Honda Prelude 4WS - 4 wheel steering, low centre of gravity and great suspension geometry add up to an enjoyable drive on any road.
i can't comment on the Mk4 4WS versions, but the regular 2WS ones are pretty damn good handlers too (but then I'm biased).
The Mk2 was good for its time, too.
Ah, This thread was made just for my car!!!
The Citroen Xantia Activa, 2.0 litre Turbo engine with proper active suspension, Zero body roll, and with my bigger wheels it is just unstickable!
You should se the look on BMW and Scooby drivers when they struggle to keep up or loose you in twisty lanes!!
If only it didn't drinks so bloody much petrol!!
Not to be confused with a normal Xantia, they are like Chalk and Cheese, or peas from totaly different pods!
The Citroen Xantia Activa, 2.0 litre Turbo engine with proper active suspension, Zero body roll, and with my bigger wheels it is just unstickable!
You should se the look on BMW and Scooby drivers when they struggle to keep up or loose you in twisty lanes!!
If only it didn't drinks so bloody much petrol!!
Not to be confused with a normal Xantia, they are like Chalk and Cheese, or peas from totaly different pods!
Another 309 thumbs up from me. I had a 309 SRi when I was about 19, same 115bhp injected 1.6 engine as the smaller engine'd 205 GTi, weighed virtually the same (just over 900kgs) and although outright grip wasnt it's speciality, the adjustability in the chassis was fantastic, could keep far more exotic machinery honest on the twisties and just begged to be driven hard. The best bit was for some reason they were insurance group 8 so entirely insurable even at 19 (10 years ago now though!).
I started my driving career in rear engined rear drive cars so fwd was abig disappointment whenever I drove anything of that ilk (when I had a Fiat 126 and Skoda Rapid my mates had Golfs, Astras, Puntos etc ad they were all rubbish to drive). However, I thn bought a 2 door SAAB 900 (without a Turbo) and the handling was fantastic - North South engine, and discs all round - it was superbly balanced and I won a few road rallies in it. I was sad to see it go
More recently I've had a succession of SEATs and now have a Citroen C2 which is fairly appaling (but I didn't buy it for the handling). We've also just bought a Mk1 Focus 3 door which is stunning to drive and even through rose tinted spectacles better than the SAAB to hustle through the bends. On that basis I can believe that the Puma (and particularly the Racing) is fantastic to drive.
I'd also add from reputation rather than experience:
Corrado
205
More recently I've had a succession of SEATs and now have a Citroen C2 which is fairly appaling (but I didn't buy it for the handling). We've also just bought a Mk1 Focus 3 door which is stunning to drive and even through rose tinted spectacles better than the SAAB to hustle through the bends. On that basis I can believe that the Puma (and particularly the Racing) is fantastic to drive. I'd also add from reputation rather than experience:
Corrado
205
Not mine ....
The best I have driven no question was the alfasud 1.2 ti
I shudder to think what I did with that car and it never bit me
The alfa sprint which came immediately after was almost as good and twice as pretty but it had lost that edge
the first focus also makes it on to the list as it had the same kind of edgy response as the alfasud ...the latest focus is dull in comparison although very good
However The best current one imho is the latest Saab 9-3 ss.. its re-axis rear wheel steer is amazing
the first 900 I found to quite "lumbery" ..
As for a 500hp 9000 It does go round corners and handles quite well but a lot of fettling is required....
The best I have driven no question was the alfasud 1.2 ti
I shudder to think what I did with that car and it never bit me
The alfa sprint which came immediately after was almost as good and twice as pretty but it had lost that edge
the first focus also makes it on to the list as it had the same kind of edgy response as the alfasud ...the latest focus is dull in comparison although very good
However The best current one imho is the latest Saab 9-3 ss.. its re-axis rear wheel steer is amazing
the first 900 I found to quite "lumbery" ..
As for a 500hp 9000 It does go round corners and handles quite well but a lot of fettling is required....
ylee coyote said:
the first 900 I found to quite "lumbery" ..
I had a 900 Convertible as well and that was a bit lumbery as were the 5 door hatches (and possibly the 3 door as well - the big opening for the hatch must have cost a lot of torsional rigidity) but the 2 door was 'edgy' and forgiving in the same way as the Focus - you could flick and drift it through bends, leaning on the outside rear wheel with total confidence
I'd have to say the Peugeot 406 is a lovely drive. Even the 1.9tdi is nice to drive (make sure you get full fuel-pump lever travel) and has the benefit of being cheap as chips, practical, styled by Pinifarini, invisible and does over 40mpg.
Honda Accords are also pretty throwable - my usual test is which car would you literally throw into a roundabout and expect to come out OK at the other side. Porsches are nice but you need to work/think - sort of the difference between Unreal Tournament and Doom 1 - if you get my drift.
Honda Accords are also pretty throwable - my usual test is which car would you literally throw into a roundabout and expect to come out OK at the other side. Porsches are nice but you need to work/think - sort of the difference between Unreal Tournament and Doom 1 - if you get my drift.
timbob said:
Mistubishi FTO is a brilliant handling car.
Yip have to agree, driven most of the mentioned few 'greats', (tho not an Integra R for some reason) but FTO Mivec really was a step forward esp vs older stuff like Pug 205s, Corrados etc.
Maybe gay wheel drive & thus not even on the radar of many, but I still do love the feel of a properly fettled old Golfy tho.
jezgod said:
Williams Clio has to be up there ( or are we putting that in the same bracket as the 172/182 )
Can't lump that in with the 172. Whole different kettle of fish and made the Rganotti feel like a tank! I owned both, and loved them, and the handling was surprisingly comparable!
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