Shown up by a 330d saloon
Discussion
bales said:
All I know is that on a long stretch of road I overtook a car in third gear with it nailed to the red line and all the way to the top of 4th gear (where I backed off) he was sat on my bumper the whole time. And thats not even a "quick" diesel.
Obviously he was close enough to pick up a tow...
There was another PH thread running where someone said that if a someone got themselves a Fabia vRS (and I know that this thread is about high performance diesel cars, not bloody Skoda Fabias) they would become one of those vRS bores that are constantly harping on about how their vRS is faster than [insert any clearly faster make of car here].
Well, all I can go on is experience of real life events on real roads in the real world, just reporting what has actually happened with no bullshit. On several PH runs, everybody, with no exceptions, has been impressed with the Skodas pace. It has shown a clean pair of heels to Clio 172/182's (sorry Rob, and I know madbadger thought it was funny as hell too) and the only 182 it couldnt catch was pbirketts modified car. It walked away from minimax's TVR, so much so that he decided that it was too slow and sold it on and bought an Elise, and still he cant get away from the Furby, and Tom wont mind admitting it pisses him off no end. On toonhoon II he had wrung the Elise out completely and I was still there, pulling away from him on the open road (although unable to catch him on the twisties for obvious handling reasons). The driver of a Corrado VR6 that couldnt quite keep up asked sheepishly "I suppose you're going to tell me thats a diesel?". I also managed to eventually get past satch in his VX220 and then make better progress, although I still couldnt catch pbirkett.
Nearly everyone assumes its been chipped, it hasnt, its standard. And I would add, that I am no driving god either. OK, its doesnt do 0-60, and the handling is not up to decent hot hatch standards, but on these PH hoons cross country, the mid range is where its at, and thats what the Furby, like all diesels, does well. It may be a one trick pony, but often one trick is all you need, again, and again, and again.
So why is it faster than [insert any clearly faster make of car here]? Well it isnt of course, it just is for those mid range jousts cross country when its already rolling and its in the right torque band, and then it really is quicker than much quicker cars, but only under those particular circumstances. Like I said, one trick pony, but luckily where it really counts.
See, i've become one of those vRS bores
Mind you, it didnt seem very quick when me & Tom & Lois were all in the Furby pootling along at 135 in lane 1 and byff came past us like we were standing still
Well, all I can go on is experience of real life events on real roads in the real world, just reporting what has actually happened with no bullshit. On several PH runs, everybody, with no exceptions, has been impressed with the Skodas pace. It has shown a clean pair of heels to Clio 172/182's (sorry Rob, and I know madbadger thought it was funny as hell too) and the only 182 it couldnt catch was pbirketts modified car. It walked away from minimax's TVR, so much so that he decided that it was too slow and sold it on and bought an Elise, and still he cant get away from the Furby, and Tom wont mind admitting it pisses him off no end. On toonhoon II he had wrung the Elise out completely and I was still there, pulling away from him on the open road (although unable to catch him on the twisties for obvious handling reasons). The driver of a Corrado VR6 that couldnt quite keep up asked sheepishly "I suppose you're going to tell me thats a diesel?". I also managed to eventually get past satch in his VX220 and then make better progress, although I still couldnt catch pbirkett.
Nearly everyone assumes its been chipped, it hasnt, its standard. And I would add, that I am no driving god either. OK, its doesnt do 0-60, and the handling is not up to decent hot hatch standards, but on these PH hoons cross country, the mid range is where its at, and thats what the Furby, like all diesels, does well. It may be a one trick pony, but often one trick is all you need, again, and again, and again.
So why is it faster than [insert any clearly faster make of car here]? Well it isnt of course, it just is for those mid range jousts cross country when its already rolling and its in the right torque band, and then it really is quicker than much quicker cars, but only under those particular circumstances. Like I said, one trick pony, but luckily where it really counts.
See, i've become one of those vRS bores
Mind you, it didnt seem very quick when me & Tom & Lois were all in the Furby pootling along at 135 in lane 1 and byff came past us like we were standing still
Edited by Balmoral Green on Thursday 19th October 19:55
steve bowen said:
I had a vRS skoda try to prevent me overtaking out of a two lane roundabout that 50 yards late merged to one lane when I had my old normally aspirated MR2, I still passed it. The bloke was really trying to prevent me getting past as glanced across at me laughing when I was level, I just dropped it a cog and continued past, they are not that quick at all. Even though he obviously thought it was.
The Skoda would be just cack slow under those circumstances.Balmoral Green said:
Sensible stuff
For most of the time on the roads at the foot of the dales, my Hdi which feels like 125bhp *cough* and with the Gti6 brakes manages to get hussled along rather well, and for what it's worth 95% of the time is as quick as my Gti6 was been ragged on the same roads. OK on A roads the Gti would be much quicker, but I don't tend to find much point going quick when it's not fun and slightly challenging... Anyone in their rep mobile is quick on fast A roads...
Revving both to ~ 2/3rd of their rev band (3000rpm in the derv, 5000 in the Gti6) they were pretty much equal in acceleration, only when you really stretched the Gti to near 7000rpm did it show it's 40bhp benefit.
Though when your driving in "the zone" the Gti was way ahead on fun factor. Where the derv is in isolation very capable in comparison and nicely enjoyable, there is just a total black hole vs the petrol Gti when it comes to delicate interaction on the throttle and the glorious (in comparison) sound and thrill as the engine hits it's sweet spot.
On the flip side though, you can make stealthy progress with the lack of noise and drama, not arousing the idea that your caning the arse off your car to other road users. It does better mpg, and is cheaper to insure too which is nice.
So for most of the time it's good, on the road it's almost as brisk outright as the Gti, and at 5/10ths probably a bit quicker, but for the fun/smiles you'd get from the Gti when going out for a razz, the derv just doesn't reach that peak the revvy petrol does!
Swings and roundabouts.
Dave
Edited by Mr Whippy on Thursday 19th October 21:30
I HATE GATSO said:
Taking it easy down the A38 today doing 70 ish, when i spotted something blasting up behind. So dropped down a couple of gears to lose him..................but it just didnt happen, he sat right on my arse. Slow down and pull upto the island, look over and its a 330d saloon. So think i'll do him off the line, wrong, he gets a car length on me in 1st and about 2 lengths by the top end of second gear 
So drop back and pretend i wasnt really trying 
Lesson learnt, my car isnt that quick must keep saving for a saggy
So drop back and pretend i wasnt really trying Lesson learnt, my car isnt that quick must keep saving for a saggy
Edited by I HATE GATSO on Tuesday 17th October 20:59
Correct me if I'm wrong but the 3.2TT is slighty slower than the TT225, similar power but the bigger engine is heavier. Some mags get 7.0secs 0-60 for the 3.2, so what you saw was probably correct.
Balmoral Green said:
minimax... bought an Elise, and still he cant get away from the Furby
As much as I like the little VAG turbodiesels myself (you may recall that I was one of the people raving about them on the thread to which you refer), I'm afraid that must have been more to do with Minimax's driving skills than the pace of the Fabia VRs.
I talked my girlfriend into an Ibiza FR (same chassis and 130 bhp turbodiesel as the VRs) and whilst it it was reasonably quick in the midrange, no way could it have kept pace with the Elise I owned at the the same time except, perhaps, at the very top end of the speed range (120mph+).
Lazily driven Ibiza vs. lazily driven Elise, the TDi could certainly keep up (indeed, it was without a doubt the faster car if you wanted to drive along in a high gear with your thumb up your arse and your brain in neutral), but if the Elise was driven properly (ie. keeping the engine in the powerband), the Ibiza wouldn't see which way it went, even on straight roads.
Still, as daily drivers, the modern TDi's are a force to be reckoned with!
Edited by Sam_68 on Thursday 19th October 23:44
Interesting how my car has entered this debate, i was the guy in the 182 on the toon hoon with Balmoral Green.
I must admit beforehand i had assumed, and did so until i read this thread that BG's car was chipped.
OK, so I now know it wasnt. Fair play, I can only imagine it would have been a lot closer with a chipped on against my car.
As some of you may know, I also once owned a Fabia vRS, and eventually migrated to the 182 on the grounds of simply preferring petrol cars. I did like the vRS, but handling wise for me it left a lot to be desired (in part due to its heavy diesel lump). It also, in normal driving, did feel quick.
I have to say, that if you did not drive a car like a 182 with any real intent, then the little Fabia could probably burn it off.
As BG, and in fact, probably anyone else who has been out on a hoon with me will tell you, I dont really hold back, and I dont do much in the way in mechanical sympathy. Fact is, I will quite happily drive on a hoon with my car constantly on cam!
To be fair, thats what i was doing on this run out. Having owned both cars, it comes as no surprise to me that a vRS as standard will not catch a clio sport. However, it did do well, I have to say that. And I must admit, i did have to really use the full potential of the engine in order to be able to pull a good gap. Any less and that skoda would have been up my chuff. However, its the only real way to get the blistering performance a clio 182 is capable of is by revving it, and if the drivers are a bit more cautious, then i can see how they might be shown a clean pair of heals.
Yep, my car is modified, with a blueflame exhaust, and better brakes, but to be honest, i can really only see the blueflame liberating a few more ponies.
I'd be interested now to see what a chipped one can do... although i still wouldnt go back, because i just much prefer the sound and handling of the clio, and the diesel wouldnt appeal even if it was as fast. As many people here have already said, diesels feel great when driven normally, but when extended like you would with say, an NA petrol, they just dont feel as satisfying to me.
Horses for courses, but for my only car (which is all i can afford now and probably for the forseeable future), the only choice for me will be petrol.
I must admit beforehand i had assumed, and did so until i read this thread that BG's car was chipped.
OK, so I now know it wasnt. Fair play, I can only imagine it would have been a lot closer with a chipped on against my car.
As some of you may know, I also once owned a Fabia vRS, and eventually migrated to the 182 on the grounds of simply preferring petrol cars. I did like the vRS, but handling wise for me it left a lot to be desired (in part due to its heavy diesel lump). It also, in normal driving, did feel quick.
I have to say, that if you did not drive a car like a 182 with any real intent, then the little Fabia could probably burn it off.
As BG, and in fact, probably anyone else who has been out on a hoon with me will tell you, I dont really hold back, and I dont do much in the way in mechanical sympathy. Fact is, I will quite happily drive on a hoon with my car constantly on cam!
To be fair, thats what i was doing on this run out. Having owned both cars, it comes as no surprise to me that a vRS as standard will not catch a clio sport. However, it did do well, I have to say that. And I must admit, i did have to really use the full potential of the engine in order to be able to pull a good gap. Any less and that skoda would have been up my chuff. However, its the only real way to get the blistering performance a clio 182 is capable of is by revving it, and if the drivers are a bit more cautious, then i can see how they might be shown a clean pair of heals.
Yep, my car is modified, with a blueflame exhaust, and better brakes, but to be honest, i can really only see the blueflame liberating a few more ponies.
I'd be interested now to see what a chipped one can do... although i still wouldnt go back, because i just much prefer the sound and handling of the clio, and the diesel wouldnt appeal even if it was as fast. As many people here have already said, diesels feel great when driven normally, but when extended like you would with say, an NA petrol, they just dont feel as satisfying to me.
Horses for courses, but for my only car (which is all i can afford now and probably for the forseeable future), the only choice for me will be petrol.
Why this ridiculous surprise at diesel cars keeping up with supposedly superior petrol variants?
If it's got similar power and similar lateral grip, then it's going to keep up. The difference will be in how loony the driver wants to get.
On a public road you don't want to be testing the big cahoonas, on a track the sporty cars would likely leave the VRs's of this world well behind.
Personally I'd rather stick electrodes on my testicles and play 240 volts through them than have to drive a derv drizzler, but that's my choice.
But, and please, can we stop pretending that a 130bhp Fabia is in any way some kind of hot hatch- it isn't.
If it's got similar power and similar lateral grip, then it's going to keep up. The difference will be in how loony the driver wants to get.
On a public road you don't want to be testing the big cahoonas, on a track the sporty cars would likely leave the VRs's of this world well behind.
Personally I'd rather stick electrodes on my testicles and play 240 volts through them than have to drive a derv drizzler, but that's my choice.
But, and please, can we stop pretending that a 130bhp Fabia is in any way some kind of hot hatch- it isn't.
10 Pence Short said:
But, and please, can we stop pretending that a 130bhp Fabia is in any way some kind of hot hatch- it isn't.
But thats the whole point, it isnt, yet it does appear to be able to run in the middle of the pack, when you might reasonably expect it to be tail end Charlie. Anyway, as said earlier, I have become a vRS bore, So will now shut the
up 
Balmoral Green said:
10 Pence Short said:
But, and please, can we stop pretending that a 130bhp Fabia is in any way some kind of hot hatch- it isn't.
But thats the whole point, it isnt, yet it does appear to be able to run in the middle of the pack, when you might reasonably expect it to be tail end Charlie.Thing is a derv goes quite quick really easily, it's power curve lets it, and try as you might after about 5/10ths you don't go appreciably quicker...
Giving a dervs power figure at 50% of peak power rpm's from idle tells a bigger story, my car had 122bhp @ 4000rpm and 105bhp @ 2500rpm...
My petrol of the same car had 167bhp @ 6500rpm, 92bhp @ 3750rpm, and that pretty much shows where the derv has the benefit.
A VRS has even more torque probably earlier on than my derv does, wheras the Clio182 output is close to the 306 Gti6 output, so you can easily see that just tootling it has tons of power (though it is heavy so power to weight probably suffers)...
But have the derv off-boost and it's terrible, out of junctions in poor weather is a nightmare in balancing power/turbo and spin... naff.
Once on boost your away, going about 80% as fast as you would if you were driving hard... use that extra 1500rpm in my car over 2500rpm and you only get an extra 17bhp, use the extra 3000rpm in the petrol and you get another 75bhp!!!
So in conclusion, dervs are effective powerplants, they make you go fast easily, but that is NOT representational of the 10.10ths speed which is often not much more than the 5/10ths, and as such makes the engine rather dull to hoon along with!
I've done the silliest thing in having a fun petrol hatch and going to the modern derv equivalent, and even with mapping, being lighter, same suspension all round, and the same kit inside, the derv just IS NOT fun in the same way the petrol is. Hit an empty moor road for a hoon and NO MATTER WHAT, I'd take the petrol!
Derv=dull but effective. If there is charm elsewhere in the car then great, my derv has charm when I get to the fuel pumps and pay my insurance, it handles nicely too so is better 90% of the time, but for hooning the petrol is still king in my eyes, and for that 10% of the time that extra fun adds somewhat more than 10% to the experience
Dave
Edited by Mr Whippy on Friday 20th October 09:22
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