Shown up by a 330d saloon

Shown up by a 330d saloon

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blueyes

4,799 posts

251 months

Wednesday 18th October 2006
quotequote all
off_again said:

...and now they are doing a 335d..... hehe


Looked interesting so I built one on the BMW site.

They only come in auto!!!


WTF is that all about?

beanbag

7,346 posts

240 months

Wednesday 18th October 2006
quotequote all
Balmoral Green said:
320d's, 118d's, 120d's are easy fodder in the Skoda. The 330d is a different animal altogether, spent hours cruising and swapping places with one between 130-140 on the Italian autostradas in August whilst in BG. As for 535d's, they are bloody amazing.


Yup...My dad had new 535d about a year ago and it was seriously fast, although sounded crap at the lights!

He sold it though as he said it used too much petrol for a diesel even though he was getting 35mpg!

So what car did he get? Yup, a Mercedes S500 rolleyes He gets about 20mpg on a good day and says it's not bad for the engine. Old men eh!? hehe

minornut

1,049 posts

236 months

Wednesday 18th October 2006
quotequote all
blueyes said:
off_again said:

...and now they are doing a 335d..... hehe


Looked interesting so I built one on the BMW site.

They only come in auto!!!


WTF is that all about?


The manual 'box can't handle the torque.

My brother picks up his new 335D coupe on Friday. Can't wait to go for a blast in it

blueyes

4,799 posts

251 months

Wednesday 18th October 2006
quotequote all
minornut said:
blueyes said:
off_again said:

...and now they are doing a 335d..... hehe


Looked interesting so I built one on the BMW site.

They only come in auto!!!


WTF is that all about?


The manual 'box can't handle the torque.




ing hate autos... so that's another car off my list then.

minornut

1,049 posts

236 months

Wednesday 18th October 2006
quotequote all
blueyes said:
minornut said:
blueyes said:
off_again said:

...and now they are doing a 335d..... hehe


Looked interesting so I built one on the BMW site.

They only come in auto!!!


WTF is that all about?


The manual 'box can't handle the torque.




ing hate autos... so that's another car off my list then.


It's got those silly flappy paddles for when you get bored of driving like an old gimmer silly

Mr Whippy

28,944 posts

240 months

Wednesday 18th October 2006
quotequote all
Good points there Off Again!

The last two of three pre-booked taxi journeys I've had were with drivers who used petrols. They liked the diesels, but their costs were now getting higher than the petrols. Yes the mpg is better with a derv, but not so in town like alot of Taxi's do.

The main worry for them was the cost of pumps and injectors after maybe 100k, coming in at almost £2000 for some models from dealers (some of the new Vectra's)! Basically their concern was all in, the petrol might offer the better ownership proposition for high miles and lots of town use. Clutch wear will be less with lower torque petrols too, relying on higher gearbox reductions (revs) to get similar at wheel torque to the dervs. Oddly enough the only derv taxi I was in (TDCI Mondeo) needed new injectors and clutch and idled badly!


I also compared the stock 535d engine and the new 3.0 petrol (assuming same @ wheels speed per gear), and the derv only just wins on torque at the top end. The petrol actually has more power at medium revs, and a huge benefit in the low revs where the diesel is off boost (even the 535d twin turbo jobbie has some lag, which in a heavier laggy drivetrain isn't really optimum)!


Personally I don't see the attraction of a *really quick* derv. My own Hdi proves the point. 55mpg+ is possible on runs, but if your an enthusiastic driver that plummets, say 43mpg average and thats not ragging it either, just brisk progress. My Gti model book was 31mpg, and I often got 28mpg, so much more realistic and that was driven probably quicker overall... Derv ain't so great all of a sudden for what it is...

All that excessive torque loading and power loading mean that the car has to have a huge expensive clutch, fat driveshafts/propshafts, adding weight and dulling response. Hugely complex engine, so owning (535d) out of warranty would scare me more than an E39 M5!

I rekon 230bhp from a derv is ample in a 3 series size car, especially if you can aim to optimise the very low-end dead-zone of torque and response (ie, at idle)... as said, the petrol probably won't cost as much for a lower mileage sports user anyway, and is as fast and sounds better etc, so why bother with the derv.
If your buying the derv through requirements (mileage etc) then why get something with power that then makes it flawed? Especially in a car like the 3 series "Ultimate Driving Machine", with added lag, driveline inertia and clatter hehe

Hrmmmmm

Dave

Edited by Mr Whippy on Wednesday 18th October 10:20

Dino D

1,953 posts

220 months

Wednesday 18th October 2006
quotequote all
I HATE GATSO said:
Taking it easy down the A38 today doing 70 ish, when i spotted something blasting up behind. So dropped down a couple of gears to lose him..................but it just didnt happen, he sat right on my arse. Slow down and pull upto the island, look over and its a 330d saloon. So think i'll do him off the line, wrong, he gets a car length on me in 1st and about 2 lengths by the top end of second gear eek So drop back and pretend i wasnt really trying paperbag

Lesson learnt, my car isnt that quick must keep saving for a saggy hehe

Edited by I HATE GATSO on Tuesday 17th October 20:59


Was it the new shape (ie ugly bangle design one) or the older one?
I know the 330D is quick but so is a TT 3.2 DSG...I reckon its probaly the new shape 330d with a chip as in standard form it doubt it is that quick...the 335d yes, but not so sure about the 330 unless its chipped.

My MD is getting the 335 saloon on Friday. Soon after it will be going to DMS for a remap and they quote the following figures after remap: 335bhp with 507 torque and 10-15% improvemnt in mpg.
Should be an interesting car indeed...

m12_nathan

5,138 posts

258 months

Wednesday 18th October 2006
quotequote all
It still has a torque converter and is therefore horrible.

As long as the 335d isn't as fast as the 335ti the natural balance has been restored

The 135ti should be great!

jwyatt

570 posts

220 months

Wednesday 18th October 2006
quotequote all
off_again said:


A pretty good comparison - it makes the points I often feel are missed, such as the broader spread of power in NA petrol engines, their better response, and their better low-rev performance before the turbo spools up on the diesel. As it says, 30-50 in top is faster in the petrol. The more diesels are tuned for high output, the more lag they have and the more they lose very low-rev performance. I can feel this clearly when driving them compared to my petrol V6.

Anyway, to the original poster, the shame, the shame! However, TT's lose a lot of bhp to the 4WD system, also until the new model they were not that light. Even the new one in V6 form is slower from 30-70 through the gears and from 0-100 (my preferred performance figures) than my 156 estate... loss of bhp to the 4WD system must be a factor, gearing and aerodynamics must feature too. I know the Alfa Brera has transmission losses of 30%, that is a full-time system and Haldex will be better, but Evo's rolling road of the R32 hinted at something similar with Haldex...

Anyway, your car doesn't sound like a tractor and look like half the other cars on the road, his does

Edited by jwyatt on Wednesday 18th October 10:24

Mr Whippy

28,944 posts

240 months

Wednesday 18th October 2006
quotequote all
Dino D said:
Soon after it will be going to DMS for a remap and they quote the following figures after remap: 335bhp with 507 torque and 10-15% improvemnt in mpg.


Like it bloody needs it eek

Wonder how DMS manage to tune them so quickly though, BMW must have spent a fair while getting it right to have DMS mess with a few values for a few nights, I wonder if they KNOW the long term effects of higher boost on the turbo bearings or torque spikes on the driveline etc...

Do DMS offer warranties comparable to BMW's own?

Dave

deva link

26,934 posts

244 months

Wednesday 18th October 2006
quotequote all
I HATE GATSO said:
Taking it easy down the A38 today doing 70 ish, when i spotted something blasting up behind. So dropped down a couple of gears to lose him..................

I'd be wary of doing that - 330d's are widely used by various Police forces, and a fast run is a common tactic for picking someone up.

PJR

2,616 posts

211 months

Wednesday 18th October 2006
quotequote all
I generally don't like auto's either. But BMW auto's I have to say are the best ive ever used. The later ones at least anyway. Auto's also help a little to smooth diesels out a bit more, which is no bad thing.

But yes, 330D's are quite rapid. However, I recently sold a modified Beetle that could lose one without too much bother. That car really did annoy many a BMW driver Was enormous fun

blueyes

4,799 posts

251 months

Wednesday 18th October 2006
quotequote all
minornut said:
blueyes said:
minornut said:
blueyes said:
off_again said:

...and now they are doing a 335d..... hehe


Looked interesting so I built one on the BMW site.

They only come in auto!!!


WTF is that all about?


The manual 'box can't handle the torque.




ing hate autos... so that's another car off my list then.


It's got those silly flappy paddles for when you get bored of driving like an old gimmer silly


Is that the same system as on the M3(only bit I liked on the car when I tried a friends), where you can adjust the rate of change, or just a normal system?

m12_nathan

5,138 posts

258 months

Wednesday 18th October 2006
quotequote all
The m cars have a clutch, the others have a torque converter.

srebbe64

13,021 posts

236 months

Wednesday 18th October 2006
quotequote all
I've had a 330d for four over years and I took delivery of a new one last month. I have to say it could almost embarrass my Tiv at times. They really are excellent cars to drive - most passengers don't believe it's a diesel.

off_again

12,252 posts

233 months

Wednesday 18th October 2006
quotequote all
Mr Whippy said:
The last two of three pre-booked taxi journeys I've had were with drivers who used petrols. They liked the diesels, but their costs were now getting higher than the petrols. Yes the mpg is better with a derv, but not so in town like alot of Taxi's do.


Yep. While diesel is more expensive than petrol in the UK, the break-point isnt as clear cut as some may suggest. And as for the maintenance, well there is a whole world of potential pain. I mean, for lesser mortals who buy second hand, the issues with blown turbos (actually a bit of a problem with BMW's by the way) mean that they can be very costly indeed. With a replacement / reconditioned turbo unit with fitting costing £1000+ for some higher performance models, what savings you make can easily be taken away again. I think the break-even point for a new car is fairly obvious since they tend to retain their value better than the equivalent Petrol. But for second hand cars its a tougher decision.

Mr Whippy said:
The main worry for them was the cost of pumps and injectors after maybe 100k, coming in at almost £2000 for some models from dealers (some of the new Vectra's)!


Funny you should say that - the taxi company round the corner from me used to buy just Skoda TDi's. Good cars and real workhorses, but with 100k+ miles on in a couple of years and they are running badly. So they have now started switching to Mondeos with LPG! Not only is the economy better, they dont suffer any of the idle problems, injector issues or similar. From what I understand these are the LPG models from Ford new - so its an official one with the full warranty and tried & trusted technology in it - not some aftermarket one. So far it seems to be working for them, but time will tell I suppose.

What does worry me is the noise that some of the older Skodas are making - serious whistle / blowing noises from the Turbos. They are really starting to sound like they are going - and its not just one car, its about three of them that are now doing this.... thats gonna hurt!

My problem is that I have a 9 year old car which still shows 28MPG on the average consumption. Equalise out the price of petrol vs diesel and that adds a couple MPG to it - so a quick bit of maths shows that I would save around £500 a year by having a diesel. But with an equivalent 530d costing at least double what I paid for mine, it would cost me more than £500 a year to buy a diesel in the first place. So for the moment I will be sticking with a "gas guzzling" petrol - which at least has a bit of a V8 roar... hehe

blueyes

4,799 posts

251 months

Wednesday 18th October 2006
quotequote all
m12_nathan said:
The m cars have a clutch, the others have a torque converter.


Aw bugger!
It'll be one of those
"change down NOW you er, I SAID... change down NOW you er"
things, then.


Deleted from list again.

Dino D

1,953 posts

220 months

Wednesday 18th October 2006
quotequote all
Mr Whippy said:
Dino D said:
Soon after it will be going to DMS for a remap and they quote the following figures after remap: 335bhp with 507 torque and 10-15% improvemnt in mpg.


Like it bloody needs it eek

Wonder how DMS manage to tune them so quickly though, BMW must have spent a fair while getting it right to have DMS mess with a few values for a few nights, I wonder if they KNOW the long term effects of higher boost on the turbo bearings or torque spikes on the driveline etc...

Do DMS offer warranties comparable to BMW's own?

Dave

I believe they buy the cars themselves cars and tune them. I know they have/had a M5 and 535d and they getting a 335i.

They offer 3year warranty but I don't know how it compares with BMW.

Mr Whippy

28,944 posts

240 months

Wednesday 18th October 2006
quotequote all
off_again said:
Stuff


Yeah it's hard to balance it all out costs wise.

My Gti 306 felt expensive, and the Hdi does visibly use less fuel, and is significantly cheaper to insure, but I do listen to my turbo and worry, and listen to those injectors at £130 a piece and think "hmmm, this is a Peugeot!"...

OK my experience of derv's isn't the best, and all engine's do have bits that break, but the risks now with dervs are pretty damn high! In derv experience I went from what was one of the good workhorse engines in the 90's (XUD9 PSA lump) to what is probably only average in the world of the newer VAG stuff. I'm not really blown away by advances in common rail though, quietness, output or consumption... it's still a LONG way off a good petrol with real instant torque and more than what feels like three levels of throttle input!

Dave

Edited by Mr Whippy on Wednesday 18th October 11:24

gaz1234

5,233 posts

218 months

Wednesday 18th October 2006
quotequote all
And i heard the Petrol 330 is quicker than the 330d? Right?