BMW's are crap and unreliable.

[Mattt]

I thought you'd moved on from trolling Focus forums Alex?

[SlipStream77]

My E36 saw 140,000 miles on the clock today and it's only required the usual high mileage stuff such as bushes, brake pipes etc. since I bought it 8/9 years ago. The only fault I had was the alarm system and that wasn't a BMW part.

[AB]

Mattt said:

I thought you'd moved on from trolling Focus forums Alex?

Nobody mentioned Focus forums, and I certainly wasn't trolling. But as you were

[AB]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

This post sums up my opinion entirely.

The first gen focus was an awesome car to chuck around and very nice to drive. Just not as nice as any BMW I have ever driven, granted I've not driven the *very* old ones - just ones of a similar age to the Focus.

[Berger 3rd]

In my experience they are a little overhyped with the exception of the M models, but on the whole solidly built and reliable cars, that will do high miles with ease.

I think the overhyped thing is part of the reason, they have a bit of a rep for being fast cars, people think oh BMW must be fast, my brother had a E46 320, he sold it for a 328 because the 320 was just to slow, in truthbtje 328 wasn't much faster, they ate not fast cars, but just so unstressed that they can do high miles with ease

[bennyboysvuk]

I nearly died in the only Ford I've ever owned...of boredom. Ok, it was a run of the mill Mondeo Zetec and reasonable at what it did, but driver satisfaction? Dull, dull, dull. On the other hand, even my old E30 325 had bags of character and was much more of an event to drive.

[Berger 3rd]

In my experience they are a little overhyped with the exception of the M models, but on the whole solidly built and reliable cars, that will do high miles with ease.

I think the overhyped thing is part of the reason, they have a bit of a rep for being fast cars, people think oh BMW must be fast, my brother had a E46 320, he sold it for a 328 because the 320 was just to slow, in truthbtje 328 wasn't much faster, they ate not fast cars, but just so unstressed that they can do high miles with ease

[anonymous-user]

I purchased a 6 month old 5 series in 2004, just 500 miles on the clock.

It was not unreliable (the mechanics were good) but the electrics/gadgets were totally useless. 11 dealer visits in 2 years, first name terms with the service desk, put me off for life!

Problems such as Aircon fan didnt work properly - software upgrade needed - comes back with aircon fan, but no side lights! - bug in latest software - another visit to put that right ..

[Alfa_75_Steve]

jamoor said:

I think ford and BMW are on par.

Ford are excellent value for money though.

You think so?

£18.5k for a poverty spec Focus diesel is 'excellent value'?

[LHD]

Alfa_75_Steve said:

jamoor said:

I think ford and BMW are on par.

Ford are excellent value for money though.

You think so?

£18.5k for a poverty spec Focus diesel is 'excellent value'?

A Fiesta Zetec 1.25 petrol 3dr isn't a kick in the backside of £13k.

Thank christ i don't have to sell them any more.

[Ricky_M]

I've owned a MK1 Focus and currently own a 1 Series.

Focus ate Anti roll bar link arms and wheel bearings for breakfast, but never had any major reliability issues.

1 Series has already had the power steering pump replaced at 58000 miles.

Focus can't touch the BMW for build quality and although the Focus does handle well, the BMW is a much better drive. The Focus was more chuckable though.

[jamoor]

Alfa_75_Steve said:

jamoor said:

I think ford and BMW are on par.

Ford are excellent value for money though.

You think so?

£18.5k for a poverty spec Focus diesel is 'excellent value'?

You can buy that for thousands off list, you can't buy the BMW for thousands off list.

[Alfa_75_Steve]

jamoor said:

Alfa_75_Steve said:

jamoor said:

I think ford and BMW are on par.

Ford are excellent value for money though.

You think so?

£18.5k for a poverty spec Focus diesel is 'excellent value'?

You can buy that for thousands off list, you can't buy the BMW for thousands off list.

Whilst this is true, I only look at the P11D values, which makes most of the Ford range spectacularly poor value for money.

I suspect most 'buyers' of new cars in this class are in the same position as me.

[edo]

Do a search on the internet for any make or model and you will conclude that most are at times crap and unreliable. People post their problems on the internet to get help.

[dudleybloke]

a lot of smaller enginee bmw's get ragged because the owners think its a serious sports car. maintainance costs more and there is an assumption that they are indiststructable because they are german so people are surprised when something breaks.

[johnbaz]

i cvan only speak of my own experience with BMW cars..
i bought an (old) E36 and whilst it looked beautiful for it's age, i've ended up paying about three times more in repairs than i actually paid for the car..

faults included-

blown head gasket, had it done along with new water pump and thermostat
two rear bushes collapsed and replaced
rear o/s wheel bearing replaced
fuel pump died and blew fuses (replaced with a s/h unit)
clutch went a month after i bought it, strange there was no warning and the pedal wasn't at the top (usually slips for a while)

there were other faults too, so many in fact that i can't remember them all

the car is a 318iSE

as it's an old car breakdowns are to be expected but this car has had more problems than any other oldie that i've ever owned which includes mk1 ford escort, humber hawk. ford anglia 105e, mk4 cortina and quiet a few others...

[jamoor]

Berger 3rd said:

In my experience they are a little overhyped with the exception of the M models, but on the whole solidly built and reliable cars, that will do high miles with ease.

I think the overhyped thing is part of the reason, they have a bit of a rep for being fast cars, people think oh BMW must be fast, my brother had a E46 320, he sold it for a 328 because the 320 was just to slow, in truthbtje 328 wasn't much faster, they ate not fast cars, but just so unstressed that they can do high miles with ease

What was your brother expecting with a 320? Didn't he read up on it before buying?

Another thing to remember is BMWs are very refined, therefore the only way to tell your speed is to look down at the speedo.

[MGJohn]

jamoor said:

Alfa_75_Steve said:

jamoor said:

I think ford and BMW are on par.

Ford are excellent value for money though.

You think so?

£18.5k for a poverty spec Focus diesel is 'excellent value'?

You can buy that for thousands off list, you can't buy the BMW for thousands off list.

I think you can now. The days when Brit car consumers formed queues to pay over the odds for the things are mostly a thing of the past. Although some still pay full whack or, even over the odds simply because of the badge. More fool them.

Visit any car enthusiasts' web site and you'll find plenty of unreliable cars and that includes the Bavarian outfit's product. However, within UK car consumer circles, there appears a wide spread myth that all BMWs are fast, safe and reliable which as many owners have found, is not always the case. There was a time when all Fords were considered cheap, cheerful and unreliable ~ again, not always the case. A neighbour complained about the problems she's had with her Fiesta since new ~ she blames the folks at Dagenham who built it ... rubbish British workers..

Only in the UK....

In fifty years driving I've come to the conclusion there are more unreliable car owners and drivers than unreliable cars, although some folks are simply unlucky. A close friend bought a top spec 2.0 litre Focus saloon new when they first appeared. His daily commute is about an 80 miles round trip and recently the car needed a replacement engine and gearbox. The car had completed 160,000 miles by then so the car owed him little. He is one of the many drivers now on the roads who is totally clueless about what goes on under the bonnet and consequently, has had much trouble with his cars over the years, but, that Ford served and continues to serve him well despite his lack of under the bonnet 'nouse'. Whilst his Ford was being repaired, I lent him a spare Rover 620ti on the basis that he insured it, and if he bent it, he bought it as a work colleague had showed interest in the car with a serious view to buy. Two hours later, he phoned me to ask if he could buy the car and I agreed. That was two years ago and he still has both cars.

Since I started driving all those years ago I have had many cars ~ never an unreliable one... never. I have occasionally bought an 'unreliable' car from someone who had lost patience with their car. Guess what, with some TLC and a few hours investigation and rectification ... a reliable car! Only once in all those years did I buy a problem car which I could not make reliable to my satisfaction and understanding of the term. So I sold that on.

I am not a Ford enthusiast. My experience with a succession of Ford company cars put me off the brand.... when subjected to the same level of hard company car use my Morrises, Austins, MGs and Rovers had, they simply did not shape up. However that was thirty years and more ago but, the experience left its mark.

Finally, as suggested in the thread title, some BMWs are crap and unreliable but, here they are not alone.

[ClintonB]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

As long as you don't get a wrong 'un and treat them decently then there's no reason why a Ford or GM product can't do similar miles. I think we moved away from all of their products being unreliable crap some time ago. I'm sure there are still iffy ones but that's hardly the preserve of Ford & GM - How many manufacturers don't have some less than perfect cars?

There might be a small element of luck but 10 years ago I had a 1.6 Astra that managed 200k with the only mechanical fault being a goosed water pump.
My current Focus has done 50k in 2 1/2 years and the only problem has been a squeaking & moving (slightly) drivers seat. Absolutely no issues so far mechanically. It hasn't ever needed any oil between services and is still on original brakes (although it could need some new pads soon).
By way of contrast, my previous car wasn't German but was one of those incredibly reliable Hondas. In a similar mileage to the Ford (but over a longer period) it needed two steering racks, half a front suspension, the alarm was playing up when I sold it, it wouldn't idle properly, the air con didn't really work too well and had needed a new clutch & ate brake pads. It wasn't a high mileage car - it had only done 60 odd thou when I got rid.
Oh and the local dealer was crooked, contrary to popularly held opinion on Honda dealers.


No experience of BMW cars & dealers so far but that may well be next up. However, I doubt that whatever I end up getting can do much better than the Focus - - it will now be more or less guaranteed to break down next time I get in it

[Timberwolf]

I think premium cars in general suffer from two things.

The first is higher expectations of owners.

The second is that they tend to adopt new technology much, much earlier than the mainstream.

These two things do not sit easily together. Being an early adopter of a technology often brings with it some pain, and if your owners aren't expecting it, then they get upset.

Take, say, autoboxes. (A popular failure point on early-'00s BMWs, if http://www.noreverse.org/ is to be believed.) At the point when the premium brands would sell you an adaptive-shift, five-speed auto with torque converter lockup in almost every gear, Ford were still throwing in a clunky old transaxle that didn't offer T/C lockup at all, let alone any of the advanced variations of it.

As a result, they got to sit by while the early-adopting premium brands found out the hard way that they needed valve bodies that could cope with the occasional buildup of crud around the valves, gearbox internals that could cope with hard shifts, and that if you didn't put regular fluid changes on the schedule (and stopped your dealers pouring in any old drum of Dexron III!) then the box was on borrowed time from about 60k miles onward.

In short, by the time Ford or Vauxhall get around to adopting a technology, the problems are already ironed out. Unfortunately, they've been ironed out by umpteen thousand BMW/Mercedes/etc. owners taking their cars back to the dealership with a very disappointed look on their face.

(Interestingly, the reputation for reliability and build quality of certainly the German premium brands comes from the 1980s, before they did so much leading by technology. Under the bonnet of a late model W126 Mercedes, say, is surprising not so much for how well built and over-engineered it is, but for how dated the basic layout of engine and ancillaries is compared to its contemporaries.)

Edited by Timberwolf on Sunday 12th July 00:31