BMW's are crap and unreliable.
Discussion
ClintonB said:
LeightonBuzzard said:
dudleybloke said:
how many 318i owners try to drive them like its an m3? im guessing over 60%!
I get 45mpg in mine, so not me. I never liked ford. This is a 25'000 mile 1.4 (04 reg) fiesta which the core plugs in the head corroded through. It needed a new cylinder head. And Ford admitted it wasnt the 1st time this has happened. You just wouldnt get that with BMW.C'mon, that's kinda like the myth that no Honda VTEC has ever failed. Right and wholly wrong at the same time.
Vanos & Nikasil are just a couple of less than perfect issues.
Not trying to fan the flames (as I don't do brand s
t) but a bit of realism is necessary, don't ya think!The days of all German brands being beyond reproach and the 'non-premium' brands being hopeless have probably gone forever. Anyway, it's the Volvos that last forever
jamoor said:
a_bloke said:
jamoor said:
Alfa_75_Steve said:
jamoor said:
I think ford and BMW are on par.
Ford are excellent value for money though.
You think so?Ford are excellent value for money though.
£18.5k for a poverty spec Focus diesel is 'excellent value'?
www.broadspeed.com. 8-10% off list is easily attainable.
Sport Coupe said:
BMW's are not crap and unreliable.
The problem is that there are a lot of dog eared BMW's out there as people can't afford to maintain them properly - thus they get used, abused, and then passed onto the next owner. 3 Series variants and owners are the worst for this in my experience.
Fords are cheaper to maintain and also the owners get a newer less abused example for their money meaning that the ownership experience can be better.
Find a good example of both cars and there is no comparison.
Oh not the old crap about blaming the owners!! These German sThe problem is that there are a lot of dog eared BMW's out there as people can't afford to maintain them properly - thus they get used, abused, and then passed onto the next owner. 3 Series variants and owners are the worst for this in my experience.
Fords are cheaper to maintain and also the owners get a newer less abused example for their money meaning that the ownership experience can be better.
Find a good example of both cars and there is no comparison.
tboxes literally drop to pieces of their own accord, I have owned 3 of these crappy cars in my life and have worked on a lot more, ALL were tired dogs with all sort of problems (engines seem fine, but it's the rest of them that are utter ste) before their 5th birthday, often before. German products in general are over rated cack in my experience and are NEVER as good as the fan boys make them out to be..Timberwolf said:
I think premium cars in general suffer from two things.
The first is higher expectations of owners.
The second is that they tend to adopt new technology much, much earlier than the mainstream.
These two things do not sit easily together. Being an early adopter of a technology often brings with it some pain, and if your owners aren't expecting it, then they get upset.
Take, say, autoboxes. (A popular failure point on early-'00s BMWs, if http://www.noreverse.org/ is to be believed.) At the point when the premium brands would sell you an adaptive-shift, five-speed auto with torque converter lockup in almost every gear, Ford were still throwing in a clunky old transaxle that didn't offer T/C lockup at all, let alone any of the advanced variations of it.
As a result, they got to sit by while the early-adopting premium brands found out the hard way that they needed valve bodies that could cope with the occasional buildup of crud around the valves, gearbox internals that could cope with hard shifts, and that if you didn't put regular fluid changes on the schedule (and stopped your dealers pouring in any old drum of Dexron III!) then the box was on borrowed time from about 60k miles onward.
In short, by the time Ford or Vauxhall get around to adopting a technology, the problems are already ironed out. Unfortunately, they've been ironed out by umpteen thousand BMW/Mercedes/etc. owners taking their cars back to the dealership with a very disappointed look on their face.
(Interestingly, the reputation for reliability and build quality of certainly the German premium brands comes from the 1980s, before they did so much leading by technology. Under the bonnet of a late model W126 Mercedes, say, is surprising not so much for how well built and over-engineered it is, but for how dated the basic layout of engine and ancillaries is compared to its contemporaries.)
What you will find is the BMW (in particular) source the cheapest parts they can for a lot of their cars. I knew a guy who worked for a company who made parts for BMWs and he said they were not only poor quality to start with (loads of failures/rejects in production) but BMW were forever pushing and pushing to get them made cheaper and cheaper, BMW, he said, were not remotely interested in the quality of the parts, only the price. German products are about the image of quality and substantiveness, and a lot of not too intelligent people fall for it (the fan boys that defend the cars even though they are endlessly dropping to pieces), but when you look at these cars when they are only a few years old, you see they are riddled with faults, design flaws and can be very worn and tired looking after only 60k miles (yes I've seen countless E90s where I work that have at least 10-15 electrical faults, LOADS of worn looking trim and rattly suspension etc, most of them are less than 5 years old!) At least a Ford (although it may not LOOK as sturdy or finely detailled etc) will last you at least ten years before it starts to drop to pieces and it'll cost you a lot less to run too!The first is higher expectations of owners.
The second is that they tend to adopt new technology much, much earlier than the mainstream.
These two things do not sit easily together. Being an early adopter of a technology often brings with it some pain, and if your owners aren't expecting it, then they get upset.
Take, say, autoboxes. (A popular failure point on early-'00s BMWs, if http://www.noreverse.org/ is to be believed.) At the point when the premium brands would sell you an adaptive-shift, five-speed auto with torque converter lockup in almost every gear, Ford were still throwing in a clunky old transaxle that didn't offer T/C lockup at all, let alone any of the advanced variations of it.
As a result, they got to sit by while the early-adopting premium brands found out the hard way that they needed valve bodies that could cope with the occasional buildup of crud around the valves, gearbox internals that could cope with hard shifts, and that if you didn't put regular fluid changes on the schedule (and stopped your dealers pouring in any old drum of Dexron III!) then the box was on borrowed time from about 60k miles onward.
In short, by the time Ford or Vauxhall get around to adopting a technology, the problems are already ironed out. Unfortunately, they've been ironed out by umpteen thousand BMW/Mercedes/etc. owners taking their cars back to the dealership with a very disappointed look on their face.
(Interestingly, the reputation for reliability and build quality of certainly the German premium brands comes from the 1980s, before they did so much leading by technology. Under the bonnet of a late model W126 Mercedes, say, is surprising not so much for how well built and over-engineered it is, but for how dated the basic layout of engine and ancillaries is compared to its contemporaries.)
Edited by Timberwolf on Sunday 12th July 00:31
stemac76 said:
Sport Coupe said:
BMW's are not crap and unreliable.
The problem is that there are a lot of dog eared BMW's out there as people can't afford to maintain them properly - thus they get used, abused, and then passed onto the next owner. 3 Series variants and owners are the worst for this in my experience.
Fords are cheaper to maintain and also the owners get a newer less abused example for their money meaning that the ownership experience can be better.
Find a good example of both cars and there is no comparison.
Oh not the old crap about blaming the owners!! These German sThe problem is that there are a lot of dog eared BMW's out there as people can't afford to maintain them properly - thus they get used, abused, and then passed onto the next owner. 3 Series variants and owners are the worst for this in my experience.
Fords are cheaper to maintain and also the owners get a newer less abused example for their money meaning that the ownership experience can be better.
Find a good example of both cars and there is no comparison.
tboxes literally drop to pieces of their own accord, I have owned 3 of these crappy cars in my life and have worked on a lot more, ALL were tired dogs with all sort of problems (engines seem fine, but it's the rest of them that are utter ste) before their 5th birthday, often before. German products in general are over rated cack in my experience and are NEVER as good as the fan boys make them out to be..Firstly, dont buy cars that are tired dogs. Once is a mistake but three times?? If all you can afford are tired dogs of cars then i would suggest BMWs arent for you.
Secondly, did you really need to trawl through 5 years of posts just to come back with that?
I am sure BMW have had to adjust to economies of scale (by that I mean you can't build a < £20K car like a £40K+ car) + US legislation on emissions.
Right now I understand that in the UK, BMW are selling more units that Ford! So much for exclusivity. I bet BMW don't want those poor Ford drivers aspiring to drive German excellence to know that!
The truth is that we bought a 10K miles one series petrol from a BMW dealer that needed serious engine head work at 30K miles.
Work that was just out of warranty and BMW felt guilty enough to pay half of parts and labour for… but i had to pick up the rest!
But come on boys! When you spend that kind of cash on a car - why do you need this kind of hastle?
There are too many people out there that think BMW are something special in the one and three series range. Engage brain - they are offering nothing more than Ford - than a badge and on costs in a crazy bracket.
What is it about us Brits that a badge it everything and "value for money" goes out of the window?
I will never buy BMW again on any account. To me they are British Leyland reinvented. They are arrogant beyond belief. Enjoy it if someone else is paying. But if thats the case why not get an Alpha?
Welcome to Kia and Hyundai with warranties that mean they believe in their cars.
Right now I understand that in the UK, BMW are selling more units that Ford! So much for exclusivity. I bet BMW don't want those poor Ford drivers aspiring to drive German excellence to know that!
The truth is that we bought a 10K miles one series petrol from a BMW dealer that needed serious engine head work at 30K miles.
Work that was just out of warranty and BMW felt guilty enough to pay half of parts and labour for… but i had to pick up the rest!
But come on boys! When you spend that kind of cash on a car - why do you need this kind of hastle?
There are too many people out there that think BMW are something special in the one and three series range. Engage brain - they are offering nothing more than Ford - than a badge and on costs in a crazy bracket.
What is it about us Brits that a badge it everything and "value for money" goes out of the window?
I will never buy BMW again on any account. To me they are British Leyland reinvented. They are arrogant beyond belief. Enjoy it if someone else is paying. But if thats the case why not get an Alpha?
Welcome to Kia and Hyundai with warranties that mean they believe in their cars.
Andrew2014 said:
BMW are selling more units that Ford! So much for exclusivity. I bet BMW don't want those poor Ford drivers aspiring to drive German excellence to know that!
Who said BMW's were exclusive? I would say BMW are very happy to welcome Ford drivers to the brand.Andrew2014 said:
There are too many people out there that think BMW are something special in the one and three series range.
They are special - they're rear wheel drive and probably the 3 series is probably the best drivers car in its class - this is PistonHeads i'm on isnt it?Andrew2014 said:
Engage brain - they are offering nothing more than Ford - than a badge and on costs in a crazy bracket.
Yes, they are. The cars are better to drive, and generally better finished. They're also a nicer place to be in and theres engine choices beyond a Ford Mondeo owners wildest dreams.Are you sure you should be on Pistonheads?
Andrew2014 said:
What is it about us Brits that a badge it everything and "value for money" goes out of the window?
Its not. I like BMWs because they're decent cars. I've owned maybe a dozen. One was a pig (high miles 530d that i shouldnt have bought). The other 11 were great.Andrew2014 said:
But if thats the case why not get an Alpha?
Its ALFA FFS. A L F A. Please - this is a motoring forum, not mumsnet.Andrew2014 said:
Welcome to Kia and Hyundai with warranties that mean they believe in their cars.
You bought a car, you were unlucky, you had a problem, BMW paid for half of it out of warranty. Probably as much as Ford or Vauxhall would do, and you think they're great.If you want a dynamically dull Kia or Hyundai thats only point of interest is a longer warranty, then great. Go for it - they'll love you over on mumsnet.
Edited by daemon on Wednesday 2nd July 22:12
daemon said:
Two suggestions :-
Firstly, dont buy cars that are tired dogs. Once is a mistake but three times?? If all you can afford are tired dogs of cars then i would suggest BMWs arent for you.
Secondly, did you really need to trawl through 5 years of posts just to come back with that?
As you are obviously a blinkered fan boy (you actually take personal offence and resort to personal insults to any criticism of you "brand") I realise I am on a hiding to nothing, but here goes: Firstly, the very fact that these crappy, over rated cars WERE worn out sFirstly, dont buy cars that are tired dogs. Once is a mistake but three times?? If all you can afford are tired dogs of cars then i would suggest BMWs arent for you.
Secondly, did you really need to trawl through 5 years of posts just to come back with that?
tboxes after 60k miles was my point, not whether or whether not I could afford a new one or not! What is your answer to BMW being near the bottom of reliability stakes in recent surveys? How do you explain the constant faults, problems and breakdowns you get with your BMW? Why don't you buy a proper car, like a Volvo or a Honda and experience what it is to own a well engineered car? BMWs (in fact all German products) are nasty, hugely over rated st that I make a constant effort to avoid, EVERY SINGLE German made product I have EVER owned has been utter st!stemac76 said:
As you are obviously a blinkered fan boy (you actually take personal offence and resort to personal insults to any criticism of you "brand")
Firstly i dont own one. Secondly where was the personal insult???stemac76 said:
I realise I am on a hiding to nothing, but here goes: Firstly, the very fact that these crappy, over rated cars WERE worn out stboxes after 60k miles was my point, not whether or whether not I could afford a new one or not!
Then somebody has sold you a really duff car if its worn out at 60K miles. tboxes after 60k miles was my point, not whether or whether not I could afford a new one or not! stemac76 said:
What is your answer to BMW being near the bottom of reliability stakes in recent surveys?
They arent. Heres the 2014 JD Power resultshttp://www.autoexpress.co.uk/best-cars/64280/most-...
BMW 1 series just outside the top 10 cars with a reliability index of 96.11 out of 100.
BMW 3 series just below that with 95.94
BMW 5 series just below that with 95.12 (just 0.02 behind the Lexus IS)
stemac76 said:
How do you explain the constant faults, problems and breakdowns you get with your BMW?
Wifie has a 2012 z4 this past 2 years. Never been back to the dealers other than for routine servicing.Son has a 2009 120D M Sport. Had it six months so far, drives the life out of it. No issues at all.
stemac76 said:
Why don't you buy a proper car, like a Volvo or a Honda and experience what it is to own a well engineered car?
Volvo is below BMW 1 series in the JD Power reliability survey?stemac76 said:
Honda Civic is below BMW 1 series in JD Power 2014 reliability survey?
BMWs (in fact all German products) are nasty, hugely over rated st that I make a constant effort to avoid, EVERY SINGLE German made product I have EVER owned has been utter st!
I take it a BMW salesman ran off with your Mum?BMWs (in fact all German products) are nasty, hugely over rated s
t that I make a constant effort to avoid, EVERY SINGLE German made product I have EVER owned has been utter st!Personally - you have to spend considerably over the odds to get a really nice BMW.
For instance, when i was buying a commuting workhorse i really didnt see the point in paying a premium for a rather basic 1 series, or a large premium for a well spec'd one. So i went for Golf - does exactly what it says on the tin - big mpg and no hassle.
Same with three series. Poverty spec SE with no leather and no toys, are pretty boring. I'd go for a Passat or Mondeo and save ££££'s.
BUT if you are prepared to pay for a really nice one, they are really nice cars. A nicely spec'd 330i / Ci is a lovely car to drive. Wouldnt particularly want to run say, a twin turbo 535d in its twilight years or an X5 for that matter. But then i wouldnt particularly want to run any older premium brand car.
So, right car and right spec = fantastic car. Probably "average" reliability though and big bills if its something complex.
So, no, not a BMW fanboy, just like the cars, but a realist, with broad experience of the brand (having previously been a motor trader)
For instance, when i was buying a commuting workhorse i really didnt see the point in paying a premium for a rather basic 1 series, or a large premium for a well spec'd one. So i went for Golf - does exactly what it says on the tin - big mpg and no hassle.
Same with three series. Poverty spec SE with no leather and no toys, are pretty boring. I'd go for a Passat or Mondeo and save ££££'s.
BUT if you are prepared to pay for a really nice one, they are really nice cars. A nicely spec'd 330i / Ci is a lovely car to drive. Wouldnt particularly want to run say, a twin turbo 535d in its twilight years or an X5 for that matter. But then i wouldnt particularly want to run any older premium brand car.
So, right car and right spec = fantastic car. Probably "average" reliability though and big bills if its something complex.
So, no, not a BMW fanboy, just like the cars, but a realist, with broad experience of the brand (having previously been a motor trader)
Edited by daemon on Wednesday 20th August 12:47
stemac76 said:
daemon said:
Two suggestions :-
Firstly, dont buy cars that are tired dogs. Once is a mistake but three times?? If all you can afford are tired dogs of cars then i would suggest BMWs arent for you.
Secondly, did you really need to trawl through 5 years of posts just to come back with that?
As you are obviously a blinkered fan boy (you actually take personal offence and resort to personal insults to any criticism of you "brand") I realise I am on a hiding to nothing, but here goes: Firstly, the very fact that these crappy, over rated cars WERE worn out sFirstly, dont buy cars that are tired dogs. Once is a mistake but three times?? If all you can afford are tired dogs of cars then i would suggest BMWs arent for you.
Secondly, did you really need to trawl through 5 years of posts just to come back with that?
tboxes after 60k miles was my point, not whether or whether not I could afford a new one or not! What is your answer to BMW being near the bottom of reliability stakes in recent surveys? How do you explain the constant faults, problems and breakdowns you get with your BMW? Why don't you buy a proper car, like a Volvo or a Honda and experience what it is to own a well engineered car? BMWs (in fact all German products) are nasty, hugely over rated st that I make a constant effort to avoid, EVERY SINGLE German made product I have EVER owned has been utter st!t, therefore all BMW's are st" mentality.Hardly an objective view.
Ever thought you were unlucky or bought the wrong cars in the first place?
Edited by daemon on Wednesday 20th August 13:17
Hello,I have a quick story about bmw my step dad owned a 2009 bmw 5 series. I would recommend leasing a bmw because after around 100 k miles the car just start breaking piece by piece literally. Me and my step dad are both sertified mechanics we didn’t know wat we were getting in to all of the “special bolts parts are extremely expensive. One time I was driving the car and I see a lot of white smoke under the hood and the thing was overheating and I live in mas and it was April so it was around 45-50 degrees so I stop open the hood and the hose was ripped so I was like ok you know this stuff happens it already had around 75 k on it and my step dad doesn’t drive the hell out from that car. So I went to a bmw dealership to buy a house which i am not kidding 2 ft long $175 how can a hose be that expensive. Than at around 100k the torque converter went bad had to replace that. Than in around 20 miles the rear diff whent bad ok. And some small things like brake lines some other hoses etc. At 120 k the car was a mess the left front shock went bad and tons of other problems which I can’t remember . I drive a 2006 Toyota Tacoma and It has around 200 k on it and it never had so many problems as that bmw has. But a good part is that he sold it couple days ago for around 3k
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