Are cars over-tyred today?

[zakelwe]

You'd have to say the safety aspect gets a big gain from over-tyred cars but what happens to the fun factor?

Today you can get an Astra 1.8L with 140bhp has the same tyre width as an old Sierra Cosworth and the BMW 318i has 225 I think as an option!

When I grew up you had 155/165 on mainstream cars and could really slide them around without being scared to death. So has the fun factor been thrown out for pure grip? Or am I just getting old and living in the past?

Regards
Andy

[ian_c_uk]

Yes!

Most 3-ser I have driven are massively over tyred, my E90 had 214bhp and yet took real effort to unstick. My boss had an E46 330ci, same, no fun as just too much grip.

My Mini Clubman has 15's with tiny rubber, and is excellent fun, with only 120bhp.

[Bonefish Blues]

Yes, agree - my old 996 was a better drive on the standard 17" wheels than the 18s I later put on.

[David87]

I quite agree - some cars are. My dad's old E60 5-Series had 19" wheels with 275s on the rear. It was a 523i.

[Motorrad]

A couple of cars I can think of that drive better on the smaller rims

MKV Golf GTi better on 17s than 18s. Rides better and handles better on rough knackered UK roads.

BMW E46 M3 on 18s same as the Golf but also tramlines less and miles less 'skittery' on fast b road blasts.

Too wide a contact patch on relatively underpowered cars=less fun IMO.

[jamiebae]

Yup, as standard our 1.2 litre Fiat 500 has (I think) 185/55 R15s on, and we could have gone bigger if we'd hit the options list.

Pretty much everything now has 205/55 R16s, including the Kia C'eed 1.6 diesel which I think is a little OTT!

[PJR]

zakelwe said:

Today you can get an Astra 1.8L with 140bhp has the same tyre width as an old Sierra Cosworth

Increased weight of modern cars perhaps plays a factor there?

Bonefish Blues said:

Yes, agree - my old 996 was a better drive on the standard 17" wheels than the 18s I later put on.

Im not surprised. Larger wheels are generally heavier (more unsprung weight), and the lower profile tyres required don't usually make for a better driving experience either. = Not such a good drive. But this is generally irrespective of tyre width.
That extra 1" certainly makes for a noticeable difference in many cases.

---

I was under the impression these days that manufactures were reasonably careful about not going over board on tyre width, because wider tyres = more drag, which = higher emissions. So even when you do get broader tyres these days on standard cars, they tend to be pretty hard to keep rolling resistance (drag) reasonable. So the size/width is perhaps more of an aesthetic thing, than it is for handling.

P,

[krallicious]

David87 said:

I quite agree - some cars are. My dad's old E60 5-Series had 19" wheels with 275s on the rear. It was a 523i.

FFS, My M3 only has 265s on the rear!

[David87]

Indeed! Admittedly they offer the same wheels on the 550i / 535d etc, but even so!

[Menguin]

Definitely.

I mean, look at the new range of cars from all the major manufacturers. No effort has gone into their design, they all look similar. I am certainly tyred of them.

[OnTheOverrun]

Definitely. My car has 274bhp and comes with 215 width tyres. Just about anything else comparable has at least 235s or wider. Hence my car is still fun and adjustable, doesn't tramline and rides well, none of which it would do if Mazda had followed fashions and put 245s on it.

[HellDiver]

Check out the rims on the Vauxhall Insignia. People are going to get a shock when the OE Bridgestone RE050A wear out and they'll be faced with a £400 bill for two tyres. 245-45-19 or something daft like that on a 1.8 SRi?

[jamiebae]

HellDiver said:

Check out the rims on the Vauxhall Insignia. People are going to get a shock when the OE Bridgestone RE050A wear out and they'll be faced with a £400 bill for two tyres. 245-45-19 or something daft like that on a 1.8 SRi?

Very true! At work today a colleague was looking at a 320d on Auto Trader and being an ES it has 16" rims, which means the tyres are 'only' £100 a corner and not £150 or so for the 17/18" options.

[hyperblue]

jamiebae said:

HellDiver said:

Check out the rims on the Vauxhall Insignia. People are going to get a shock when the OE Bridgestone RE050A wear out and they'll be faced with a £400 bill for two tyres. 245-45-19 or something daft like that on a 1.8 SRi?

Very true! At work today a colleague was looking at a 320d on Auto Trader and being an ES it has 16" rims, which means the tyres are 'only' £100 a corner and not £150 or so for the 17/18" options.

BMW do the same thing with the MINI - the standard Dunlop runflat 205/45/17 R53 Cooper S tyres are ~£125 each off the internet or £150 from the dealer. Might come as a bit of a shock for someone who needs all 4 replacing!

Edited by hyperblue on Wednesday 14th October 20:12

[ffelan]

ian_c_uk said:

Yes!

Most 3-ser I have driven are massively over tyred, my E90 had 214bhp and yet took real effort to unstick. My boss had an E46 330ci, same, no fun as just too much grip.

My Mini Clubman has 15's with tiny rubber, and is excellent fun, with only 120bhp.

maybe you are just not trying hard enough to unstick it.... and your clubman does look a bit postman pat on its trolley wheels.... ;-)

[Fox-]

Very true. I have 265mm wide rear tyres and I have no idea why.

[jamiebae]

hyperblue said:

jamiebae said:

HellDiver said:

Check out the rims on the Vauxhall Insignia. People are going to get a shock when the OE Bridgestone RE050A wear out and they'll be faced with a £400 bill for two tyres. 245-45-19 or something daft like that on a 1.8 SRi?

Very true! At work today a colleague was looking at a 320d on Auto Trader and being an ES it has 16" rims, which means the tyres are 'only' £100 a corner and not £150 or so for the 17/18" options.

BMW do the same thing with the MINI - the standard Dunlop runflat 205/45/17 R53 Cooper S tyres are ~£125 each off the internet or £150 from the dealer. Might come as a bit of a shock for someone who needs all 4 replacing!

Edited by hyperblue on Wednesday 14th October 20:12

Indeed, ex Mini owner here who deliberately didn't spec big wheels for that reason.

Another colleague had a 120d with 18s fitted and got a really nasty shock when it needed 4 tyres and she found herself over £600 poorer. She has since sold the car and vows never to buy another BMW because it cost so much to service and run.

[Shropshiremike]

zakelwe said:

You'd have to say the safety aspect gets a big gain from over-tyred cars but what happens to the fun factor?

Today you can get an Astra 1.8L with 140bhp has the same tyre width as an old Sierra Cosworth and the BMW 318i has 225 I think as an option!

When I grew up you had 155/165 on mainstream cars and could really slide them around without being scared to death. So has the fun factor been thrown out for pure grip? Or am I just getting old and living in the past?

Regards
Andy

Remember the early Lancia Delta HF Turbos? 130bhp ( or did some of the 140bhp ones as well? ) on 165s! You used to be able to actually see them drift on very fast bends.

[f1nn]

There's no doubt that manufacturers are over tyring cars today, but it's just another step in our nanny culture.

Don't forget though that there have been massive advances in tyre compound technology in the last 10-15 years, so a modern tyre would be far grippier than one 15 years ago even in the same size.

Thats reminded me actually, a few years ago I went with a mate to collect a 106 rallye he had bought. It was on the orriginal stell rims with standard, nothing special tyres and it was the most fantastically adjustable, slideable and fun little thing.

He then put some semi-slick trackday special rubber on, Yokohama or Toyo R888, but still in the standard size and it felt clumsy and dead. Totally ruined it.

[Sam_68]

Shropshiremike said:

...130bhp ( or did some of the 140bhp ones as well? ) on 165s! You used to be able to actually see them drift on very fast bends.

Circa 145-150bhp on tall section, budget 155's, here. I can confirm:

• They drift very easily.
• It's BIG fun.