Re: Peugeot: GTi is RIP

Re: Peugeot: GTi is RIP

Author
Discussion

collateral

7,238 posts

217 months

Monday 9th November 2009
quotequote all
havoc said:
skwdenyer said:
bullies180 said:
The problem is is that they don't put enough effort into making a good hot hatch. My 180 is a fantastic car but is let down by the gear box. The 207 was also not powerful enough, a hot hatch these days needs over 200bhp just to be competitive.
Am I the only one to wonder if this is not the root cause of the problem and, at the same time, a crushing indictment of mainstream modern car manufacture. 200bhp to make a hot hatch? Insanity!

If the only way to keep up with current crash regulations is to make a car so large, and so heavy, that it requires such heady power outputs so as "just to be competitive"?

How in Chapman's name have we allowed this situation to occur? Surely the time is ripe for a re-imagining of the Citroen AX or the Mk I VW Golf? Surely we deserve - and should demand - better from our manufacturers?
They already exist - Panda 100HP, Twingo 133, Mini Cooper. Trouble is, most buyers in the UK market are image obsessed, and image largely = headline numbers, esp. for blokes - can you imagine telling your mates down the pub you'd bought a Twingo or a Panda?!? You'd be laughed out of the place...

I also think mfrs aren't helping - the new Fiesta has an excellent chassis, but Ford won't put anything hotter than the 110bhp 1.6 in there, which isn't quite enough to even be 'warm' - 140-150bhp would make it a stunning little car!
Why aren't there any current fast Fords other than the Focus? confused

Granted, I doubt they'd have the balls to make another Fiesta RS, but there isn't even an ST Mondeo at the moment afaik

Madmunk25

4 posts

180 months

Monday 9th November 2009
quotequote all
The 205gti was by far the best in the pug range,raw real drivers car that was a blast to drive same with so many hot hatches in that era, Now all we get is drivers aids and safety systems that take the plesure away from ragging a little hot hatch around the "b" roads.

Motorrad

6,811 posts

186 months

Monday 9th November 2009
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Shows the muppets don't have aspirations to build decent drivers cars any more. They can go and fk themselves.

chimera40

7,259 posts

176 months

Monday 9th November 2009
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Peugeot marketing director Christian Stein told Autocar: "For us, the GTi concept is dead. The GTi means a lot to English people but it is time to move on."

Translated; Only the English like the car but they can go fk themselves.

Never liked Froggy st buckets never will, they can stick there cars where the sun does not shine.

iamrcb

607 posts

195 months

Monday 9th November 2009
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There a quite a few manufacturers that would love a long standing brand that they could stick on their cars (hot or not) that is also backed up by some reasonable heritage claims.

Just wait a few years and they will resurrect it...... "It's Back"

thewheelman

2,194 posts

172 months

Monday 9th November 2009
quotequote all
As for Peugeot GTi's they peaked with the 205GTi which is a hot hatch legend,the 106GTi was a very good car & handled well. The others did nothing for me.

Bogracer

438 posts

206 months

Monday 9th November 2009
quotequote all
The last good car that Peugeot made was the 306 GTi-6, since then peugeot have lost the drivers edge to become bloated and sloppy, with very little going for them.

Where's the flair gone Peugeot?



mcelliott

8,626 posts

180 months

Monday 9th November 2009
quotequote all
Driven scensoredt loads of really fast cars....M3's, Lancia Evo's, 911's and the like, but would have to say my rattly old 19 hundred, for sheer driver involvement and enjoyment, is right up there.

BBS-LM

3,972 posts

223 months

Monday 9th November 2009
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Is this really news, hasn't Peugeot: been dead for years, when was the last time Peugeot produced a fast entertaining car?

r1ch

2,867 posts

195 months

Monday 9th November 2009
quotequote all
As a bloke who's only ever owned peugeots, i felt the need to contribute. Im sad and happy at the same time that they are ditching the GTi badge. On the one hand, its the end of an era, but on the other, at least they won't be putting GTI on cars that simply arn't worthy of those 3 letters. Ever since the 306, the sporty models have only ever been mildly luke warm hatches.

The memories of the 309, 205, 106, and 306 will remain. Bye bye GTI.

bencollins

3,486 posts

204 months

Monday 9th November 2009
quotequote all
Re bloated modern cars, they are only bloated cos of SUVs over 2t travelling at 90 down the outside lane. Frankly I welcome the safety, at any price.
If someone wants to ban passnger cars over two tons then great, but until they do, 1.5t hatchbacks are here to stay.
As other pointed out there are plenty of good HHs around today, just seek them out, suzuki thingy is good etc, and i like the current 1.6 turbo pug / mini efforts, they´re very good IMO.

collateral

7,238 posts

217 months

Monday 9th November 2009
quotequote all
r1ch said:
As a bloke who's only ever owned peugeots, i felt the need to contribute. Im sad and happy at the same time that they are ditching the GTi badge. On the one hand, its the end of an era, but on the other, at least they won't be putting GTI on cars that simply arn't worthy of those 3 letters. Ever since the 306, the sporty models have only ever been mildly luke warm hatches.

The memories of the 309, 205, 106, and 306 will remain. Bye bye GTI.
beer

skwdenyer

16,181 posts

239 months

Tuesday 10th November 2009
quotequote all
bencollins said:
Re bloated modern cars, they are only bloated cos of SUVs over 2t travelling at 90 down the outside lane. Frankly I welcome the safety, at any price.
If someone wants to ban passnger cars over two tons then great, but until they do, 1.5t hatchbacks are here to stay.
As other pointed out there are plenty of good HHs around today, just seek them out, suzuki thingy is good etc, and i like the current 1.6 turbo pug / mini efforts, they´re very good IMO.
With respect, there's nothing to stop a 1t or less hatchback happily fending-off a 2t SUV except the will to build it.

skwdenyer

16,181 posts

239 months

Tuesday 10th November 2009
quotequote all
bencollins said:
Re bloated modern cars, they are only bloated cos of SUVs over 2t travelling at 90 down the outside lane. Frankly I welcome the safety, at any price.
If someone wants to ban passnger cars over two tons then great, but until they do, 1.5t hatchbacks are here to stay.
As other pointed out there are plenty of good HHs around today, just seek them out, suzuki thingy is good etc, and i like the current 1.6 turbo pug / mini efforts, they´re very good IMO.
Re the idea that you "welcome the safety, at any price", why on earth are driving a Barchetta and not, say, a modern 1.5t hatchback, or perhaps a second-hand Volvo?

80quattro

1,724 posts

194 months

Tuesday 10th November 2009
quotequote all
collateral said:
Escort Si-130 said:
Thinkthats jsut it, the 6 speed gearbox was its biggest claim to fame on that model. Need more than a 6 speed gearbox to make a hot hatch. Not because it had a 6 means it would be faster than a 5 speed.

havoc said:
I'd echo the "not since the 306" comments, but would disagree that you need 200bhp - the wife's GTi-6 felt quite quick enough, thanks.

That said, with ever-increasing weight, and ever decreasing driver-involvement in cars, I can see where Bullies is coming from - more power is needed now to keep the same bhp/tonne, and more sense of acceleration is needed to replace the tactile involvement that made the 205, 309 adn 306 such awesome cars to drive...
iirc the 6th is the same height as 5th on an XSI
Don't you mean the 306 S16 ? That was a great hot hatch..

otolith

55,899 posts

203 months

Tuesday 10th November 2009
quotequote all
Ordinary cars have got heavier because ordinary car buyers want safe and spacious and refined. That makes them a poorer platform for hot hatches. The need to restrict CO2 emissions combined with the extra weight is the last nail in the coffin, and I suspect the reason Peugeot are backing off from them.

collateral

7,238 posts

217 months

Tuesday 10th November 2009
quotequote all
80quattro said:
collateral said:
Escort Si-130 said:
Thinkthats jsut it, the 6 speed gearbox was its biggest claim to fame on that model. Need more than a 6 speed gearbox to make a hot hatch. Not because it had a 6 means it would be faster than a 5 speed.

havoc said:
I'd echo the "not since the 306" comments, but would disagree that you need 200bhp - the wife's GTi-6 felt quite quick enough, thanks.

That said, with ever-increasing weight, and ever decreasing driver-involvement in cars, I can see where Bullies is coming from - more power is needed now to keep the same bhp/tonne, and more sense of acceleration is needed to replace the tactile involvement that made the 205, 309 adn 306 such awesome cars to drive...
iirc the 6th is the same height as 5th on an XSI
Don't you mean the 306 S16 ? That was a great hot hatch..
Hrm, can't find any decent stats on the gearing...max speed is stated as 135 mph for the GTi-6 and 125 for the XSi on Parkers. They don't seem the most slippery design so could the extra power account for the 10 mph difference if it was the same ratio?

Having said that, it's been banded about quite a bit that the 'official' 306 0-60 times were frigged to make them seem slower, so it's possible some of the other data is pretty questionable. My Dturbo would hit 60 in less than 10 seconds but the official figure was over 13...

ben_h100

1,546 posts

178 months

Tuesday 10th November 2009
quotequote all
106 gti - my first 'proper' car. What a hoot, I think the experiences I had in that car taught me a great deal about car control.

Essex Exile

390 posts

192 months

Tuesday 10th November 2009
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loose cannon said:
trouble is my old fruit with the set criteria for a car design these days being governed by safety ie bumper height, etc etc electronics for safety equipment, the weight ends up ridiculous hence why you need a bigger car to to fit it all in and still have room, and then you need over 200 horses to drag all that extra weight along
Spot on. The 130, in the Strada Abarth 130 TC, seemed plenty.
What a car that was.

Rob P

5,769 posts

263 months

Tuesday 10th November 2009
quotequote all
What a load of bks. Its nothing to do with marketing or the British obsession with GTI's. All they need to do is make a bloody half decent car, they can call it what they like. Type-R, ST or whatever.

What was the last good car they made? 306 GTI-6? Pug are more like Vauxhall were up to a few years ago - selling new average cars with finance deals, even they have seemed to turn it around.

Oh dear.