Re: Peugeot: GTi is RIP
Discussion
havoc said:
skwdenyer said:
bullies180 said:
The problem is is that they don't put enough effort into making a good hot hatch. My 180 is a fantastic car but is let down by the gear box. The 207 was also not powerful enough, a hot hatch these days needs over 200bhp just to be competitive.
Am I the only one to wonder if this is not the root cause of the problem and, at the same time, a crushing indictment of mainstream modern car manufacture. 200bhp to make a hot hatch? Insanity!If the only way to keep up with current crash regulations is to make a car so large, and so heavy, that it requires such heady power outputs so as "just to be competitive"?
How in Chapman's name have we allowed this situation to occur? Surely the time is ripe for a re-imagining of the Citroen AX or the Mk I VW Golf? Surely we deserve - and should demand - better from our manufacturers?
I also think mfrs aren't helping - the new Fiesta has an excellent chassis, but Ford won't put anything hotter than the 110bhp 1.6 in there, which isn't quite enough to even be 'warm' - 140-150bhp would make it a stunning little car!
Granted, I doubt they'd have the balls to make another Fiesta RS, but there isn't even an ST Mondeo at the moment afaik
Peugeot marketing director Christian Stein told Autocar: "For us, the GTi concept is dead. The GTi means a lot to English people but it is time to move on."
Translated; Only the English like the car but they can go fk themselves.
Never liked Froggy st buckets never will, they can stick there cars where the sun does not shine.
Translated; Only the English like the car but they can go fk themselves.
Never liked Froggy st buckets never will, they can stick there cars where the sun does not shine.
As a bloke who's only ever owned peugeots, i felt the need to contribute. Im sad and happy at the same time that they are ditching the GTi badge. On the one hand, its the end of an era, but on the other, at least they won't be putting GTI on cars that simply arn't worthy of those 3 letters. Ever since the 306, the sporty models have only ever been mildly luke warm hatches.
The memories of the 309, 205, 106, and 306 will remain. Bye bye GTI.
The memories of the 309, 205, 106, and 306 will remain. Bye bye GTI.
Re bloated modern cars, they are only bloated cos of SUVs over 2t travelling at 90 down the outside lane. Frankly I welcome the safety, at any price.
If someone wants to ban passnger cars over two tons then great, but until they do, 1.5t hatchbacks are here to stay.
As other pointed out there are plenty of good HHs around today, just seek them out, suzuki thingy is good etc, and i like the current 1.6 turbo pug / mini efforts, they´re very good IMO.
If someone wants to ban passnger cars over two tons then great, but until they do, 1.5t hatchbacks are here to stay.
As other pointed out there are plenty of good HHs around today, just seek them out, suzuki thingy is good etc, and i like the current 1.6 turbo pug / mini efforts, they´re very good IMO.
r1ch said:
As a bloke who's only ever owned peugeots, i felt the need to contribute. Im sad and happy at the same time that they are ditching the GTi badge. On the one hand, its the end of an era, but on the other, at least they won't be putting GTI on cars that simply arn't worthy of those 3 letters. Ever since the 306, the sporty models have only ever been mildly luke warm hatches.
The memories of the 309, 205, 106, and 306 will remain. Bye bye GTI.
The memories of the 309, 205, 106, and 306 will remain. Bye bye GTI.
bencollins said:
Re bloated modern cars, they are only bloated cos of SUVs over 2t travelling at 90 down the outside lane. Frankly I welcome the safety, at any price.
If someone wants to ban passnger cars over two tons then great, but until they do, 1.5t hatchbacks are here to stay.
As other pointed out there are plenty of good HHs around today, just seek them out, suzuki thingy is good etc, and i like the current 1.6 turbo pug / mini efforts, they´re very good IMO.
With respect, there's nothing to stop a 1t or less hatchback happily fending-off a 2t SUV except the will to build it.If someone wants to ban passnger cars over two tons then great, but until they do, 1.5t hatchbacks are here to stay.
As other pointed out there are plenty of good HHs around today, just seek them out, suzuki thingy is good etc, and i like the current 1.6 turbo pug / mini efforts, they´re very good IMO.
bencollins said:
Re bloated modern cars, they are only bloated cos of SUVs over 2t travelling at 90 down the outside lane. Frankly I welcome the safety, at any price.
If someone wants to ban passnger cars over two tons then great, but until they do, 1.5t hatchbacks are here to stay.
As other pointed out there are plenty of good HHs around today, just seek them out, suzuki thingy is good etc, and i like the current 1.6 turbo pug / mini efforts, they´re very good IMO.
Re the idea that you "welcome the safety, at any price", why on earth are driving a Barchetta and not, say, a modern 1.5t hatchback, or perhaps a second-hand Volvo?If someone wants to ban passnger cars over two tons then great, but until they do, 1.5t hatchbacks are here to stay.
As other pointed out there are plenty of good HHs around today, just seek them out, suzuki thingy is good etc, and i like the current 1.6 turbo pug / mini efforts, they´re very good IMO.
collateral said:
Escort Si-130 said:
Thinkthats jsut it, the 6 speed gearbox was its biggest claim to fame on that model. Need more than a 6 speed gearbox to make a hot hatch. Not because it had a 6 means it would be faster than a 5 speed.
iirc the 6th is the same height as 5th on an XSIhavoc said:
I'd echo the "not since the 306" comments, but would disagree that you need 200bhp - the wife's GTi-6 felt quite quick enough, thanks.
That said, with ever-increasing weight, and ever decreasing driver-involvement in cars, I can see where Bullies is coming from - more power is needed now to keep the same bhp/tonne, and more sense of acceleration is needed to replace the tactile involvement that made the 205, 309 adn 306 such awesome cars to drive...
That said, with ever-increasing weight, and ever decreasing driver-involvement in cars, I can see where Bullies is coming from - more power is needed now to keep the same bhp/tonne, and more sense of acceleration is needed to replace the tactile involvement that made the 205, 309 adn 306 such awesome cars to drive...
Ordinary cars have got heavier because ordinary car buyers want safe and spacious and refined. That makes them a poorer platform for hot hatches. The need to restrict CO2 emissions combined with the extra weight is the last nail in the coffin, and I suspect the reason Peugeot are backing off from them.
80quattro said:
collateral said:
Escort Si-130 said:
Thinkthats jsut it, the 6 speed gearbox was its biggest claim to fame on that model. Need more than a 6 speed gearbox to make a hot hatch. Not because it had a 6 means it would be faster than a 5 speed.
iirc the 6th is the same height as 5th on an XSIhavoc said:
I'd echo the "not since the 306" comments, but would disagree that you need 200bhp - the wife's GTi-6 felt quite quick enough, thanks.
That said, with ever-increasing weight, and ever decreasing driver-involvement in cars, I can see where Bullies is coming from - more power is needed now to keep the same bhp/tonne, and more sense of acceleration is needed to replace the tactile involvement that made the 205, 309 adn 306 such awesome cars to drive...
That said, with ever-increasing weight, and ever decreasing driver-involvement in cars, I can see where Bullies is coming from - more power is needed now to keep the same bhp/tonne, and more sense of acceleration is needed to replace the tactile involvement that made the 205, 309 adn 306 such awesome cars to drive...
Having said that, it's been banded about quite a bit that the 'official' 306 0-60 times were frigged to make them seem slower, so it's possible some of the other data is pretty questionable. My Dturbo would hit 60 in less than 10 seconds but the official figure was over 13...
loose cannon said:
trouble is my old fruit with the set criteria for a car design these days being governed by safety ie bumper height, etc etc electronics for safety equipment, the weight ends up ridiculous hence why you need a bigger car to to fit it all in and still have room, and then you need over 200 horses to drag all that extra weight along
Spot on. The 130, in the Strada Abarth 130 TC, seemed plenty.What a car that was.
What a load of bks. Its nothing to do with marketing or the British obsession with GTI's. All they need to do is make a bloody half decent car, they can call it what they like. Type-R, ST or whatever.
What was the last good car they made? 306 GTI-6? Pug are more like Vauxhall were up to a few years ago - selling new average cars with finance deals, even they have seemed to turn it around.
Oh dear.
What was the last good car they made? 306 GTI-6? Pug are more like Vauxhall were up to a few years ago - selling new average cars with finance deals, even they have seemed to turn it around.
Oh dear.
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