Kerbing alloys. Why can't the problem be solved??
Discussion
kambites said:
Unsprung weight is a good reason for alloys, it's not really a good reason for huge alloys with rubber band tyres. In my experience, for modern road cars, the smallest wheels tend to end up giving the lightest wheel/tyre combination, as well as giving the most progressive handling and best ride quality.
+1 on this. A "old style" aspect ratio tyre (my fiesta runs on something like a 185/65 R13) has vastly superior damping to a similar car on alloys, with the added bonus that when the tyres lose grip (which they do at a fairly low speed) it's much easier to pull everything back into line. Also narrow tyres are much better for driving in the rain (much less risk of aquaplaning because the car puts more weight onto each cm2) with the same bonus for snow driving.As a final aside, the 106 GTi had rubber band alloys. The much harder core 106 Rallye had steel wheels. Go figure.
JB! said:
disco!!!! said:
Daston said:
There was a wheel company a few years back who did a set of wheels there were totally chip/kerb proof, I seem to remember a vid of them smashing them with hammers driving into kerbs at horrid angles and no damage.
a company called schmidt made an outer rim for their 3 piece wheels that stood up to some fair amount of abuse but i cant remember the metal they used But it's nowhere near as good as the vid...
I think schmidt do two rims, one radinox and one standard stainless. The non-radionx won't corrode which is plus, but isn't as tough.
kambites said:
marshalla said:
useyourdellusion said:
Alloys have always been form over function IMO. They've also got overly large and overly fussy in the last ten years or so. The price of fashion.
Unsprung weight.Alloys are 90% style and 10% substance oy reckin
kenb
her said:
her said:JB! said:
disco!!!! said:
Daston said:
There was a wheel company a few years back who did a set of wheels there were totally chip/kerb proof, I seem to remember a vid of them smashing them with hammers driving into kerbs at horrid angles and no damage.
a company called schmidt made an outer rim for their 3 piece wheels that stood up to some fair amount of abuse but i cant remember the metal they used But it's nowhere near as good as the vid...
I think schmidt do two rims, one radinox and one standard stainless. The non-radionx won't corrode which is plus, but isn't as tough.
A previous owner of my Porsche has managed to kerb the mighty 15" wheels with high profile tyres. Looks like it required some effort.
I've managed to kerb one of the wheels on my current Passat whilst parking against a kerb because I pulled up next to it (instead of reversing in) and it was an evil old style squared off one and I got a bit close and got treated to a horrible scraping noise. Entirely my fault.
A lot of tyres are supposed to have a lip that pokes out to protect the rim from kerbing but they don't actually seem to do anything. The problem with making the wheel tougher is going to make what is already a fairly expensive item more expensive and potentially lighter.
What happens if you have the misfortune of kerbing a carbon fibre wheel?
I've managed to kerb one of the wheels on my current Passat whilst parking against a kerb because I pulled up next to it (instead of reversing in) and it was an evil old style squared off one and I got a bit close and got treated to a horrible scraping noise. Entirely my fault.
A lot of tyres are supposed to have a lip that pokes out to protect the rim from kerbing but they don't actually seem to do anything. The problem with making the wheel tougher is going to make what is already a fairly expensive item more expensive and potentially lighter.
What happens if you have the misfortune of kerbing a carbon fibre wheel?
mp3manager said:
madrob6 said:
What happens if you have the misfortune of kerbing a carbon fibre wheel?
Kerbing a wheel is not misfortune, it's bad driving and is completely preventable. End of.My driving ability wasn't the thing I was interested in, that's a different conversation. I was wondering what happens if somebody were to kerb a carbon fibre wheel.
Gaz. said:
madrob6 said:
What happens if you have the misfortune of kerbing a carbon fibre wheel?
Most don't have carbon rims for this reason, but the 100% carbon wheels shatter when kerbed. TBH I think kerbing a carbon face/mag rim would write off the wheel anyway.I've kerbed the alloys of my Mk5 GTI. Every single Mk5 GTI I've seen in London has kerbed alloys, with the 18" Monzas faring the worst.
Fact is a lot of country folk who park on gravel drives and who never have to park within 2" to a kerb in a tight spot (lest their wing mirrors get bashed) love to pontificate on sites like this about how kerbing alloys is always bad driving...!
Black cabs have the right idea with their wheels.
Fact is a lot of country folk who park on gravel drives and who never have to park within 2" to a kerb in a tight spot (lest their wing mirrors get bashed) love to pontificate on sites like this about how kerbing alloys is always bad driving...!
Black cabs have the right idea with their wheels.
swamp said:
I've kerbed the alloys of my Mk5 GTI. Every single Mk5 GTI I've seen in London has kerbed alloys, with the 18" Monzas faring the worst.
Fact is a lot of country folk who park on gravel drives and who never have to park within 2" to a kerb in a tight spot (lest their wing mirrors get bashed) love to pontificate on sites like this about how kerbing alloys is always bad driving...!
Black cabs have the right idea with their wheels.
Monzas are very vulnerable to being scraped aren't they? I've heard that a lot.Fact is a lot of country folk who park on gravel drives and who never have to park within 2" to a kerb in a tight spot (lest their wing mirrors get bashed) love to pontificate on sites like this about how kerbing alloys is always bad driving...!
Black cabs have the right idea with their wheels.
Vauxhall had a clever idea with what they call "structure wheels";
Essentially it's just a steel wheel with a hubcap on it, but the difference is that the steel wheel is a simple design with just 5 fairly narrow spokes, rather than a big pie dish type thing. Then on top of that fits a plastic covering that is essentially indistinguishable from an expensive alloy wheel. You've probably seen many of them and not had a clue. Best of both worlds really - looks fine, but only costs £20 to replace if it gets really knackered, and the only thing holding it to the steel is the wheel bolts themselves, so you won't have to attach them with cable ties in 10 years' time.
Essentially it's just a steel wheel with a hubcap on it, but the difference is that the steel wheel is a simple design with just 5 fairly narrow spokes, rather than a big pie dish type thing. Then on top of that fits a plastic covering that is essentially indistinguishable from an expensive alloy wheel. You've probably seen many of them and not had a clue. Best of both worlds really - looks fine, but only costs £20 to replace if it gets really knackered, and the only thing holding it to the steel is the wheel bolts themselves, so you won't have to attach them with cable ties in 10 years' time.
marshalla said:
useyourdellusion said:
Alloys have always been form over function IMO. They've also got overly large and overly fussy in the last ten years or so. The price of fashion.
Unsprung weight.The 15" alloys were 6kgs heavier than the 14" steels. The Mazda 14" alloys (the original minilite-replica style) were the lightest wheels ever fitted to a road car at the time, yet they were only 1kg lighter than than the steels. Btw, replacing the 15" alloys with 14" steels absolutely transformed the handling of my car, and taught me that seeking out a set of genuine Mazda alloys would not be a waste of time.
Alloy wheels were first used in racing, however those wheels were (still are?) lifed, ie you through them away after a certain time. Obviously no-one is going to do that with their road cars, so i reckon the alloys we have on our cars have so much material on them that any significant weight advantage may be lost.
I have 2 cars that are over 10 years old now, and the bloody alloys have gone porous meaning i constantly have to re-inflate the tyres. And then of course there's the hassle of keeping them clean. Brake dust on steels/plastic trims just runs off with water, whereas with alloys there's a huge market in wheel cleaner alone.
I can't help thinking that the alloy wheel is 99% marketing and that they serve no real purpose at all. But I might be wrong.
swamp said:
I've kerbed the alloys of my Mk5 GTI. Every single Mk5 GTI I've seen in London has kerbed alloys, with the 18" Monzas faring the worst.
Fact is a lot of country folk who park on gravel drives and who never have to park within 2" to a kerb in a tight spot (lest their wing mirrors get bashed) love to pontificate on sites like this about how kerbing alloys is always bad driving...!
Black cabs have the right idea with their wheels.
+1! Fact is a lot of country folk who park on gravel drives and who never have to park within 2" to a kerb in a tight spot (lest their wing mirrors get bashed) love to pontificate on sites like this about how kerbing alloys is always bad driving...!
Black cabs have the right idea with their wheels.
I've been amazed actually by all the macho pontifications on this site about how wonderful you guys are at driving/parking. Living in Central London and having to fight for parking spaces, in narrow roads, will eventually result in a mis judgement every so often, we are not talking about every day or even every week. Perhaps once every 5-6 months. Coming out an unfamiliar NCP car park, parking where the kerb is at an angle/rounded..etc.. In a rush, late for a meeting etc, in the dark/rain, just plain tired after a tough day, a lorry coming at you in a narrow road, just about to hit you... its pretty easy to miss a piece of kerb sticking out because its been damaged, or simply sticking out a bit more than estimated. In the 25 years or so I have have been driving, I have never since a teenager scraped a car whilst parking, but in a big car, it can be pretty hard to sometimes see a kerb, or something unexpectantly sticking out. Are you all seriously telling me you have never been in a situation where you have made a minor error of judgement, or been forced to??? Going by what I see every day on almost without exception every car parked on the road in Central London, the reality of kerbed wheels differs considerably from what is being said on this site!!
I drive over 30 thousand miles a year with some pretty wide and/or long wheel base cars, Porsche 911/Merc S class. If you don't park as tight as you can on a narrow road, chances are you will loose a wing mirror, from a pyschotic cyclist or white van man. It happens, and with the best will in the world, mistakes/errors of judgements are made, unless you are telling me you are all robots. Are most people on this site seriously saying that in 2/3 or more years of driving in a busy city centre, none of you has ever kerbed a wheel? Its fact that some wheels are rather more prone to kerbing than others, with the alloy design protuding outwards ever so slightly.
By the way, thanks for insights into some of the products available.
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