Is the Audi S4 the biggest performance bargain?
Discussion
Tallbut Buxomly said:
Otherwise rock solid and dirt cheap to run aside from fuel.The known issues are easily fixed permanently and at low cost.
Though the fact that you have to fix them, rather than Audi doing it when they built it, does rather suggest k-ink is correct and that the money went on interiors, not mechanicals doesn't it? 
OnTheOverrun said:
Tallbut Buxomly said:
Otherwise rock solid and dirt cheap to run aside from fuel.The known issues are easily fixed permanently and at low cost.
Though the fact that you have to fix them, rather than Audi doing it when they built it, does rather suggest k-ink is correct and that the money went on interiors, not mechanicals doesn't it? k-ink said:
Leicesterdave said:
k-ink said:
VAG spend all their money on interiors and marketing, so skimp on the mechanics.
Absolute tosh.
I too have first hand experience and I'm guessing a few more will back me up!
OnTheOverrun said:
Tallbut Buxomly said:
Otherwise rock solid and dirt cheap to run aside from fuel.The known issues are easily fixed permanently and at low cost.
Though the fact that you have to fix them, rather than Audi doing it when they built it, does rather suggest k-ink is correct and that the money went on interiors, not mechanicals doesn't it? rear arb 250 fitted problem fixed. Wiper mech 160 fixed. Radiator not sure on cost but prob no more than around 300 quid so all in around a grand sees your s4 mech sorted. It wont break down. It wont eat its clutch every 5 secs (which an m5 will if worked hard).
Tallbut Buxomly said:
OnTheOverrun said:
Tallbut Buxomly said:
Otherwise rock solid and dirt cheap to run aside from fuel.The known issues are easily fixed permanently and at low cost.
Though the fact that you have to fix them, rather than Audi doing it when they built it, does rather suggest k-ink is correct and that the money went on interiors, not mechanicals doesn't it? rear arb 250 fitted problem fixed. Wiper mech 160 fixed. Radiator not sure on cost but prob no more than around 300 quid so all in around a grand sees your s4 mech sorted. It wont break down. It wont eat its clutch every 5 secs (which an m5 will if worked hard).
Nonetheless, one bad car does not an unreliable range make. Similarly, just because yours hasn't broken anything doesn't mean to say that every S4 will be equally faithful.
For example, every Gen 2 V70R owner on the internet says they're fragile and unreliable... yet mine's not put a foot wrong in 24,000 miles.
My first hand experience is completely the opposite of the 'accepted' trend, does that make it any less correct?
Hell27 said:
No it's not.
The Jaguar XJR is the biggest performance bargain.
4.0 supercharged V8, 370 BHP, a decent one can be had for 3K.
Agreed.The Jaguar XJR is the biggest performance bargain.
4.0 supercharged V8, 370 BHP, a decent one can be had for 3K.
Welshbeef said:
The other thing is audis have taken over from BMW as cars being owned by cocks sicJ Clarkson. Rate him or not anyone interested in cars knows that be it true or not makes no difference. He killed the vectra and hampered BMW with similar comments.
Killed the Vectra? It's a fleet car, I doubt Clarkson's comments would make any difference.To suggest that he hampered BMW is nuts, a couple of years ago the 3 series was outselling the Mondeo.
Edited by theaxe on Sunday 25th April 17:08
Dunk76 said:
Tallbut Buxomly said:
OnTheOverrun said:
Tallbut Buxomly said:
Otherwise rock solid and dirt cheap to run aside from fuel.The known issues are easily fixed permanently and at low cost.
Though the fact that you have to fix them, rather than Audi doing it when they built it, does rather suggest k-ink is correct and that the money went on interiors, not mechanicals doesn't it? rear arb 250 fitted problem fixed. Wiper mech 160 fixed. Radiator not sure on cost but prob no more than around 300 quid so all in around a grand sees your s4 mech sorted. It wont break down. It wont eat its clutch every 5 secs (which an m5 will if worked hard).
Nonetheless, one bad car does not an unreliable range make. Similarly, just because yours hasn't broken anything doesn't mean to say that every S4 will be equally faithful.
For example, every Gen 2 V70R owner on the internet says they're fragile and unreliable... yet mine's not put a foot wrong in 24,000 miles.
My first hand experience is completely the opposite of the 'accepted' trend, does that make it any less correct?
Back at home so will say what my problems with the S4 were.
For a start the understeer issue is not a slight problem, and it really did ruin the car. The car has Quattro and should stick to the road in all conditions because of this, however you couldn't ever push it that hard as the understeer ultimately meant you could never reach the speeds needed to put the Quattro into action.
I swapped the rear anti roll bars for much thicker ones and this helped a smidge, but still you had to seriously fight the front end round even the shallowest of corners.
The thing that really annoyed me was still getting beat on the back roads in the wet in winter by my wife in a remapped 120d!! How embarrassing!
To be fair though the little BMW is extremely nimble, but in the wet??!! There is one stretch of road I know well with two corners, I could hold more speed in the 1 series than I ever could in the S4, in the 1 series it was close to the speed of our old M3, the S4 should be able to take it quicker, but you can't get the front round.
So I think you have to just accept that the S4 is not a sports car, it is an Autobahn mile muncher.
Now, that brings me onto the next issue, the manual version of this car is crap!!
The pedals are all different heights for a start, the brake pedal is over 2" higher than the gas, and the clutch is the same as the brake.
So you get set up for the right position for the accelerator and then the brake is too close, so use the car like I did (I do 40k miles a year) and in traffic or around town I got cramp!!
I had to pull over on the motorway 3 times in the first month and get out the car it was that bad.
Sit with your feet on the floor and try and touch your shins with your toes, hold it there for 30 seconds and you will see what I mean.
I saw this mentioned a few times when reading reviews of the car and just ignored it, didn't really know what they meant, but it is an issue and the pedals are like like due to some case Audi had in the 80s or 90s with a US customer saying the car accelerated on its own into the back of another vehicle, turns out they were just a t
t! However, all Audis now have this.
Also on RHD cars the pedals are over to the right slightly, but the steering wheel and seat are not, so you end up twisting from your knee and then back again to rest your foot.
All in all pretty annoying and made anything over an hour a real chore.
Then there is the gear ratios.
Now this is a 4 litre V8, you should be able to sit with only 2 gears and only be doing 1500rpm at 80mph.
The manual is not actually that quick 0-60mph, so they have a 3.9 final drive to help things along and get the all important 0-60mph looking reasonable.
However, problem with this is when sitting at 85mph on the motorway the thing is doing 3500rpm and worse than that it is only doing 21mpg.
The auto has a 3.6 final drive and sat at 85mph it is only doing 2000rpm and is returning 27mpg, big difference.
So, in manual guise it not only doesn't work as a sports car but it doesn't work as a mile muncher either.
If I had bought the auto I would have probably got used to the brake, but using the clutch all the time made it a real ball ache with it being so high, also I would have been happy with an average of 23/24mpg, but I was getting 19mpg average and that was with 80% motorway journeys. Plus it wasn't like I would go out for a drive at the weekends in it just for the sake of going for a drive like I would have in the M3 or the 1 series even, so I couldn't convince myself that the 18mpg was worth it.
Look, don't get me wrong I love Audis, however, I will never by another one expecting it to be sporty, they do a job and they do it well, but sporty or exciting they are not!!*
I have a 3,2 Quattro avant now and love it, but it does what it is meant to do and doesn't try to be anything else.
For a start the understeer issue is not a slight problem, and it really did ruin the car. The car has Quattro and should stick to the road in all conditions because of this, however you couldn't ever push it that hard as the understeer ultimately meant you could never reach the speeds needed to put the Quattro into action.
I swapped the rear anti roll bars for much thicker ones and this helped a smidge, but still you had to seriously fight the front end round even the shallowest of corners.
The thing that really annoyed me was still getting beat on the back roads in the wet in winter by my wife in a remapped 120d!! How embarrassing!
To be fair though the little BMW is extremely nimble, but in the wet??!! There is one stretch of road I know well with two corners, I could hold more speed in the 1 series than I ever could in the S4, in the 1 series it was close to the speed of our old M3, the S4 should be able to take it quicker, but you can't get the front round.
So I think you have to just accept that the S4 is not a sports car, it is an Autobahn mile muncher.
Now, that brings me onto the next issue, the manual version of this car is crap!!
The pedals are all different heights for a start, the brake pedal is over 2" higher than the gas, and the clutch is the same as the brake.
So you get set up for the right position for the accelerator and then the brake is too close, so use the car like I did (I do 40k miles a year) and in traffic or around town I got cramp!!
I had to pull over on the motorway 3 times in the first month and get out the car it was that bad.
Sit with your feet on the floor and try and touch your shins with your toes, hold it there for 30 seconds and you will see what I mean.
I saw this mentioned a few times when reading reviews of the car and just ignored it, didn't really know what they meant, but it is an issue and the pedals are like like due to some case Audi had in the 80s or 90s with a US customer saying the car accelerated on its own into the back of another vehicle, turns out they were just a t
t! However, all Audis now have this. Also on RHD cars the pedals are over to the right slightly, but the steering wheel and seat are not, so you end up twisting from your knee and then back again to rest your foot.
All in all pretty annoying and made anything over an hour a real chore.
Then there is the gear ratios.
Now this is a 4 litre V8, you should be able to sit with only 2 gears and only be doing 1500rpm at 80mph.
The manual is not actually that quick 0-60mph, so they have a 3.9 final drive to help things along and get the all important 0-60mph looking reasonable.
However, problem with this is when sitting at 85mph on the motorway the thing is doing 3500rpm and worse than that it is only doing 21mpg.
The auto has a 3.6 final drive and sat at 85mph it is only doing 2000rpm and is returning 27mpg, big difference.
So, in manual guise it not only doesn't work as a sports car but it doesn't work as a mile muncher either.
If I had bought the auto I would have probably got used to the brake, but using the clutch all the time made it a real ball ache with it being so high, also I would have been happy with an average of 23/24mpg, but I was getting 19mpg average and that was with 80% motorway journeys. Plus it wasn't like I would go out for a drive at the weekends in it just for the sake of going for a drive like I would have in the M3 or the 1 series even, so I couldn't convince myself that the 18mpg was worth it.
Look, don't get me wrong I love Audis, however, I will never by another one expecting it to be sporty, they do a job and they do it well, but sporty or exciting they are not!!*
I have a 3,2 Quattro avant now and love it, but it does what it is meant to do and doesn't try to be anything else.
- RS4 B7 and new B8 S4 is the exception. Probably R8 as well but not driven one.
Welshbeef said:
The saviour if radio 1 chris moyles always has the Audi S4.
The other thing is audis have taken over from BMW as cars being owned by cocks sicJ Clarkson. Rate him or not anyone interested in cars knows that be it true or not makes no difference. He killed the vectra and hampered BMW with similar comments.
Why bother to post sThe other thing is audis have taken over from BMW as cars being owned by cocks sicJ Clarkson. Rate him or not anyone interested in cars knows that be it true or not makes no difference. He killed the vectra and hampered BMW with similar comments.
te?Are you bored?
Blown2CV said:
It's not THAT fast, or THAT cheap is it? I always heard (not experienced however) that the S4 was a bit lardy and not really the bargain version of the RS4 that you seem to be suggesting. Sleeper I will grant you, but bargain not so much.
The RS4 surely isn't £10-£20k better than an S4. They're not THAT different on paper at least- anyone driven both?Leicesterdave said:
Blown2CV said:
It's not THAT fast, or THAT cheap is it? I always heard (not experienced however) that the S4 was a bit lardy and not really the bargain version of the RS4 that you seem to be suggesting. Sleeper I will grant you, but bargain not so much.
The RS4 surely isn't £10-£20k better than an S4. They're not THAT different on paper at least- anyone driven both?Leicesterdave said:
Blown2CV said:
It's not THAT fast, or THAT cheap is it? I always heard (not experienced however) that the S4 was a bit lardy and not really the bargain version of the RS4 that you seem to be suggesting. Sleeper I will grant you, but bargain not so much.
The RS4 surely isn't £10-£20k better than an S4. They're not THAT different on paper at least- anyone driven both?
The RS4 is one of the finest motor cars ever built, the S4 is.....well, at only twice the price the RS4 is a fukin' steal!
Edited by gizlaroc on Sunday 25th April 20:24
gizlaroc said:
Only someone who hasn't driven them both would ever say that.
The RS4 is one of the finest motor cars ever built, the S4 is.....well, at only twice the price the RS4 is a fukin' steal!
Could you elaborate? I really am interested in the differences! 0-60 and 0-100 times seem roughly the same (0.5 second in it?) top speed obv the same.The RS4 is one of the finest motor cars ever built, the S4 is.....well, at only twice the price the RS4 is a fukin' steal!
The RS has a fair more bhp and nicer bumpers. Is the drive much better?!
I'm quite surprised with some of the responses here about massive understeer and how the s4 b6 is only a mile munched- have a look on you tube for s4 vs m3 topgear and - go to 5.50sec and you'll see that the s4 is virtually a second faster round the topgear track than an e46 m3!
And yes I've got one and all the pedals line up and it was fantastic in the snow. In clarksons words the engine truly is a masterpiece....
And yes I've got one and all the pedals line up and it was fantastic in the snow. In clarksons words the engine truly is a masterpiece....
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