RE: SOTW: Saab 9000 Carlsson
Discussion
snolan said:
Truckosaurus said:
I had one of these, in black J-reg, hatchback.
Good car. I recall they advertised it as "the world's fastest car" (in 5th gear between 2 certain speeds (50-70?)) as it was pretty much the only turbo
engined 'normal' car.
seem to remember from motoring press something about 2.3 carllson being quicker than a testarossa between 50/70 in third thus making a comendable shed choice.Good car. I recall they advertised it as "the world's fastest car" (in 5th gear between 2 certain speeds (50-70?)) as it was pretty much the only turbo
engined 'normal' car.
Partly this is down to torque, the 2.3L turbo produces nice amounts of torque relatively low down in the rev range. Saab also extolled the virtues of this for "safe overtaking" on B roads
Edited by Strawman on Saturday 14th August 17:37
Well I've had three 9000's and currently own two of them - the V6, and a 2.3t. I previously owned a 2.3FBT. Scorn if you must, it's not a hot hatch with rubbish build quality, but a sleeper. The 15 year old V6 sailed through its MoT once again, and caused the tester to remark that she is as good as new underneath. Tailor that, both their reliablilties - they have never let me down - rapid progress and easily achieving 30mpg - in fact the 2.3t did this while towing a small camper van on a trailer recently, from Sussex to Wiltshire, and you won't find anything matching this easily, in total comfort and assurance.
The 9000 is a secret that is best kept.
The 9000 is a secret that is best kept.
Edited by Zaphod I on Monday 16th August 00:28
Edited by Zaphod I on Monday 16th August 00:29
Edited by Zaphod I on Monday 16th August 00:30
The 9000 is a fantastic all rounder, here's mine.
By far the best car I've ever owned, can't see myself getting rid any time soon.
Started out as a 2.3LPT and was remapped for less than £150, so is now pushing out 235bhp and 266 lb/ft. Acceleration 40-70 in 3rd is sprightly and surprises quite a few people being a 15 y.o shed with a silly roof rack!
By far the best car I've ever owned, can't see myself getting rid any time soon.
Started out as a 2.3LPT and was remapped for less than £150, so is now pushing out 235bhp and 266 lb/ft. Acceleration 40-70 in 3rd is sprightly and surprises quite a few people being a 15 y.o shed with a silly roof rack!
)I currently own a 9000 2.3 Anniversary. It is 175bhp but I have the intercooler and BPV/BPC thingy fitted to the car so mechanically, it is identical to the aero model. The only difference is my chip.
The good old saab boys on the forums have created open source ECU tuning software! I am in the process of reading through 100s of pages of stuff to make sure I do it right, but effectively I can map my own car for free. Mechanically, the car can take a stage 1 and 2 with no problems. So I might take it to about 270bhp and leave it there.
Not bad for a car that cost me £600, has heated leather seats, climate, cruise, 5 big seats and a frigging huge boot!
I just don't ever see any circumstance that would mean I would sell it.
The good old saab boys on the forums have created open source ECU tuning software! I am in the process of reading through 100s of pages of stuff to make sure I do it right, but effectively I can map my own car for free. Mechanically, the car can take a stage 1 and 2 with no problems. So I might take it to about 270bhp and leave it there.
Not bad for a car that cost me £600, has heated leather seats, climate, cruise, 5 big seats and a frigging huge boot!
I just don't ever see any circumstance that would mean I would sell it.
Zaphod I said:
Wing Commander said:
I might take it to about 270bhp and leave it there.
Only 270bhp? Certainly, there a few 9000's that scare the Peugeot and BMW's in this neck of the woods on Track Days
Obviously, if I get bored, I might wind it up a bit!
Wing Commander said:
The thing is, I won't be upgrading any other parts ie internals so don't want to shorten the life of the car.
You don't need to..... stock internals are good for 500hp.However, as you say, with not upgrading any of the chassis/brake bits, 270 is more than enough. (IMHO way too much, as I thought the standard 225hp was too much for the standard chassis in my old 9000 Aero
)Agent Orange said:
Wing Commander said:
The good old saab boys on the forums have created open source ECU tuning software!
Do you have a link? Would be interested to look at that.http://trionic.mobixs.eu/
I owned a '98 9000 HPT. Best car I've ever owned. Only problem I had was a cracked sump which cost a lot to replace. Oh, and it used to chew front tyres.
The Carlson is awesome and at £595 the black one is a steal. Suspension, bushes etc to dial out the understeer and it would be formidable.
The Carlson is awesome and at £595 the black one is a steal. Suspension, bushes etc to dial out the understeer and it would be formidable.
aeropilot said:
Wing Commander said:
The thing is, I won't be upgrading any other parts ie internals so don't want to shorten the life of the car.
You don't need to..... stock internals are good for 500hp.However, as you say, with not upgrading any of the chassis/brake bits, 270 is more than enough. (IMHO way too much, as I thought the standard 225hp was too much for the standard chassis in my old 9000 Aero
)I am pretty busy at the moment though so the upgrade is going to have to wait!
Saabs, on the whole have always been an acquired taste, and they can be a bit like Marmite. I could never see why anyone would ever want to drive one without a turbo.
I now have a collection of Carlssons in various stages of rebuild from breakers to work in progress to fully reconditioned.
I can't deny the red CD (saloon) doesn't look the nicest - I would bleed Saab if cut, but as the paint fades they do become dusty pink, instead of the bright Talladega red and look 'unloved'. The saloon never looked good in red and even worse in white. Black was the best colour without a doubt, although in 1992, some other colours opened up for the run-out models and I have, what I believe to be the only factory blue CD Carlsson made. The hatchbacks looked great in red - but awful in white - god only knows why that colour choice was ever made available - whoever said they look good in a dark colour was absolutely spot on.
Most cars with Traction control are a nightmare to put it politely - 99% of the time, its all to do with the vacuum system and once you've had the heartache of figuring it all out, it's often straightforward enough to work out what's gone wrong from the feel of the car as it drops into limp-home mode. After 15 plus years of driving these - maybe I'm finally getting the hang of it. Once you get the TCS system sorted and stay on top of them, they aren't a bother.
These are fab cars to drive - comfortable, fast and as long as they are set up properly with all the bushings in proper condition and not all 'soft', they'll go round corners in the right direction pretty damn quick, though rough roads can leave them feeling a bit jittery.
As long as you're not pressing hard on the loud pedal, the 2.3's will turn early thirties to the gallon, the 2.0's about 35 maybe 38 at a push. The 2.3's have a more progressive, two stage boost system which provides base boost for manoeuverability then full boost for overtaking. It was designed to smooth out the torque steer problems someone else complained about earlier.
Depending on the year, the 2.0 may be 204 bhp or 194 if its a 1990 - due to the installation of a CAT and a closed loop EGR system. There you go - environmentalists taking the fun out of things again.....
One of the great tricks in driving the 2.3 cars (sometimes works on the 2.0's as well) is to 'feather' the throttle at full boost - it means the boost keeps building out into the 'red' zone as you head into the sunset, rather than having to move up a gear to get the boost back. I generally prefer the 2.3's for that reason and the extra torque from the longer piston throw.
Would I buy the CD on offer - maybe as a parts car. If you don't have all of the tools/parts on the shelf to fix it, the TCS system will be enough to have you sticking your head in the nearest oven...
As for a sleeper...the guy driving the Carrera 4S last weekend coming up over the Shap on the M6 had a shocked look on his face when my Abbott tuned Carlsson sat in on his tail before blasting past as he climbed the hill. Not bad for a 19 year old motor with 228,000 on the clock......
One comment about the Carlsson being the preferred discount tool for 'window shoppers' - the insurance group still remains 17 for these motors. Ever remember the Sierra Cosworth? Courtesy of the Twockers these were a group 20 car.
I'd like to see how many M3's, GTR's, WRX's and RS's are still around 10 to 15 years from now.....
I now have a collection of Carlssons in various stages of rebuild from breakers to work in progress to fully reconditioned.
I can't deny the red CD (saloon) doesn't look the nicest - I would bleed Saab if cut, but as the paint fades they do become dusty pink, instead of the bright Talladega red and look 'unloved'. The saloon never looked good in red and even worse in white. Black was the best colour without a doubt, although in 1992, some other colours opened up for the run-out models and I have, what I believe to be the only factory blue CD Carlsson made. The hatchbacks looked great in red - but awful in white - god only knows why that colour choice was ever made available - whoever said they look good in a dark colour was absolutely spot on.
Most cars with Traction control are a nightmare to put it politely - 99% of the time, its all to do with the vacuum system and once you've had the heartache of figuring it all out, it's often straightforward enough to work out what's gone wrong from the feel of the car as it drops into limp-home mode. After 15 plus years of driving these - maybe I'm finally getting the hang of it. Once you get the TCS system sorted and stay on top of them, they aren't a bother.
These are fab cars to drive - comfortable, fast and as long as they are set up properly with all the bushings in proper condition and not all 'soft', they'll go round corners in the right direction pretty damn quick, though rough roads can leave them feeling a bit jittery.
As long as you're not pressing hard on the loud pedal, the 2.3's will turn early thirties to the gallon, the 2.0's about 35 maybe 38 at a push. The 2.3's have a more progressive, two stage boost system which provides base boost for manoeuverability then full boost for overtaking. It was designed to smooth out the torque steer problems someone else complained about earlier.
Depending on the year, the 2.0 may be 204 bhp or 194 if its a 1990 - due to the installation of a CAT and a closed loop EGR system. There you go - environmentalists taking the fun out of things again.....
One of the great tricks in driving the 2.3 cars (sometimes works on the 2.0's as well) is to 'feather' the throttle at full boost - it means the boost keeps building out into the 'red' zone as you head into the sunset, rather than having to move up a gear to get the boost back. I generally prefer the 2.3's for that reason and the extra torque from the longer piston throw.
Would I buy the CD on offer - maybe as a parts car. If you don't have all of the tools/parts on the shelf to fix it, the TCS system will be enough to have you sticking your head in the nearest oven...
As for a sleeper...the guy driving the Carrera 4S last weekend coming up over the Shap on the M6 had a shocked look on his face when my Abbott tuned Carlsson sat in on his tail before blasting past as he climbed the hill. Not bad for a 19 year old motor with 228,000 on the clock......
One comment about the Carlsson being the preferred discount tool for 'window shoppers' - the insurance group still remains 17 for these motors. Ever remember the Sierra Cosworth? Courtesy of the Twockers these were a group 20 car.
I'd like to see how many M3's, GTR's, WRX's and RS's are still around 10 to 15 years from now.....
H141RUJ said:
Saabs, on the whole have always been an acquired taste, and they can be a bit like Marmite. I could never see why anyone would ever want to drive one without a turbo.
I now have a collection of Carlssons in various stages of rebuild from breakers to work in progress to fully reconditioned.
I can't deny the red CD (saloon) doesn't look the nicest - I would bleed Saab if cut, but as the paint fades they do become dusty pink, instead of the bright Talladega red and look 'unloved'. The saloon never looked good in red and even worse in white. Black was the best colour without a doubt, although in 1992, some other colours opened up for the run-out models and I have, what I believe to be the only factory blue CD Carlsson made. The hatchbacks looked great in red - but awful in white - god only knows why that colour choice was ever made available - whoever said they look good in a dark colour was absolutely spot on.
Most cars with Traction control are a nightmare to put it politely - 99% of the time, its all to do with the vacuum system and once you've had the heartache of figuring it all out, it's often straightforward enough to work out what's gone wrong from the feel of the car as it drops into limp-home mode. After 15 plus years of driving these - maybe I'm finally getting the hang of it. Once you get the TCS system sorted and stay on top of them, they aren't a bother.
These are fab cars to drive - comfortable, fast and as long as they are set up properly with all the bushings in proper condition and not all 'soft', they'll go round corners in the right direction pretty damn quick, though rough roads can leave them feeling a bit jittery.
As long as you're not pressing hard on the loud pedal, the 2.3's will turn early thirties to the gallon, the 2.0's about 35 maybe 38 at a push. The 2.3's have a more progressive, two stage boost system which provides base boost for manoeuverability then full boost for overtaking. It was designed to smooth out the torque steer problems someone else complained about earlier.
Depending on the year, the 2.0 may be 204 bhp or 194 if its a 1990 - due to the installation of a CAT and a closed loop EGR system. There you go - environmentalists taking the fun out of things again.....
One of the great tricks in driving the 2.3 cars (sometimes works on the 2.0's as well) is to 'feather' the throttle at full boost - it means the boost keeps building out into the 'red' zone as you head into the sunset, rather than having to move up a gear to get the boost back. I generally prefer the 2.3's for that reason and the extra torque from the longer piston throw.
Would I buy the CD on offer - maybe as a parts car. If you don't have all of the tools/parts on the shelf to fix it, the TCS system will be enough to have you sticking your head in the nearest oven...
As for a sleeper...the guy driving the Carrera 4S last weekend coming up over the Shap on the M6 had a shocked look on his face when my Abbott tuned Carlsson sat in on his tail before blasting past as he climbed the hill. Not bad for a 19 year old motor with 228,000 on the clock......
One comment about the Carlsson being the preferred discount tool for 'window shoppers' - the insurance group still remains 17 for these motors. Ever remember the Sierra Cosworth? Courtesy of the Twockers these were a group 20 car.
I'd like to see how many M3's, GTR's, WRX's and RS's are still around 10 to 15 years from now.....
Absolutely brilliant first post! You, sir, will fit in well around here I now have a collection of Carlssons in various stages of rebuild from breakers to work in progress to fully reconditioned.
I can't deny the red CD (saloon) doesn't look the nicest - I would bleed Saab if cut, but as the paint fades they do become dusty pink, instead of the bright Talladega red and look 'unloved'. The saloon never looked good in red and even worse in white. Black was the best colour without a doubt, although in 1992, some other colours opened up for the run-out models and I have, what I believe to be the only factory blue CD Carlsson made. The hatchbacks looked great in red - but awful in white - god only knows why that colour choice was ever made available - whoever said they look good in a dark colour was absolutely spot on.
Most cars with Traction control are a nightmare to put it politely - 99% of the time, its all to do with the vacuum system and once you've had the heartache of figuring it all out, it's often straightforward enough to work out what's gone wrong from the feel of the car as it drops into limp-home mode. After 15 plus years of driving these - maybe I'm finally getting the hang of it. Once you get the TCS system sorted and stay on top of them, they aren't a bother.
These are fab cars to drive - comfortable, fast and as long as they are set up properly with all the bushings in proper condition and not all 'soft', they'll go round corners in the right direction pretty damn quick, though rough roads can leave them feeling a bit jittery.
As long as you're not pressing hard on the loud pedal, the 2.3's will turn early thirties to the gallon, the 2.0's about 35 maybe 38 at a push. The 2.3's have a more progressive, two stage boost system which provides base boost for manoeuverability then full boost for overtaking. It was designed to smooth out the torque steer problems someone else complained about earlier.
Depending on the year, the 2.0 may be 204 bhp or 194 if its a 1990 - due to the installation of a CAT and a closed loop EGR system. There you go - environmentalists taking the fun out of things again.....
One of the great tricks in driving the 2.3 cars (sometimes works on the 2.0's as well) is to 'feather' the throttle at full boost - it means the boost keeps building out into the 'red' zone as you head into the sunset, rather than having to move up a gear to get the boost back. I generally prefer the 2.3's for that reason and the extra torque from the longer piston throw.
Would I buy the CD on offer - maybe as a parts car. If you don't have all of the tools/parts on the shelf to fix it, the TCS system will be enough to have you sticking your head in the nearest oven...
As for a sleeper...the guy driving the Carrera 4S last weekend coming up over the Shap on the M6 had a shocked look on his face when my Abbott tuned Carlsson sat in on his tail before blasting past as he climbed the hill. Not bad for a 19 year old motor with 228,000 on the clock......
One comment about the Carlsson being the preferred discount tool for 'window shoppers' - the insurance group still remains 17 for these motors. Ever remember the Sierra Cosworth? Courtesy of the Twockers these were a group 20 car.
I'd like to see how many M3's, GTR's, WRX's and RS's are still around 10 to 15 years from now.....
kprm77 said:
Here's one of the same colour, though this one is immaculate:
Roof mounted safety camera dispenser optional
[Pedant mode]
The 2.3 Carlssons were 220BHP.
[/Pedant mode]
My old Carlsson felt a lot quicker than my current 250BHP 9-5 Aero. Still the quickest car mid range I've driven. (Only other quick cars I've driven are a standard Sierra Sapphire Cosworth, and a Focus ST2).
This looks like my old one:
I liked the bodykits - made the car look like a slow car with a silly body kit, though mine was double bluffing
Kevin Mc
Sorry kevin yours died quite a while ago (at 280,000) victim of a turbo goingand it hydrolocked the engine (still got the rear spoiler)Roof mounted safety camera dispenser optional
[Pedant mode]
The 2.3 Carlssons were 220BHP.
[/Pedant mode]
My old Carlsson felt a lot quicker than my current 250BHP 9-5 Aero. Still the quickest car mid range I've driven. (Only other quick cars I've driven are a standard Sierra Sapphire Cosworth, and a Focus ST2).
This looks like my old one:
I liked the bodykits - made the car look like a slow car with a silly body kit, though mine was double bluffing
ylee coyote said:
I have one as a track car
what you say ,that old barge
well at marham last time it was embarrasing some people round the twisty bits
especially in the rain
cars were spinning off trying to keep in front of it
And its only done 260,000 miles .....
That's not my old white one is it? Thought it was dead - or is it another one?what you say ,that old barge
well at marham last time it was embarrasing some people round the twisty bits
especially in the rain
cars were spinning off trying to keep in front of it
And its only done 260,000 miles .....
Kevin Mc
Edited by kprm77 on Saturday 14th August 08:22
This was one of wrigars cast offs....
aeropilot said:
Wing Commander said:
The thing is, I won't be upgrading any other parts ie internals so don't want to shorten the life of the car.
You don't need to..... stock internals are good for 500hp.However, as you say, with not upgrading any of the chassis/brake bits, 270 is more than enough. (IMHO way too much, as I thought the standard 225hp was too much for the standard chassis in my old 9000 Aero
)but a bit of polybushing tightens it up nicely
and then beef up the rear a/r bar for a bit of lift off oversteer and a grippy front end
tie in a LSD and bingo you have a very planted car through the twisties ....
brakes are crap tho (even when you upgrade them )
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff